More signs the ATR is going away.

[JoeMerchant]

Um, because it's never wise to price yourself out of the game? Unwise to make yourself a target by topping the industry? The best job security is to be competitive?

Weren't these your lines during negotiations? Either you're fishing or have Alzheimer's.

......hooked one....but I was trying to catch sweptback....

I was simply responding to sweptback who said pilots don't have anything to do with the equation of whether or not we get more flying....

The ALPA cheerleaders like to say that pilot costs don't matter.....but the evidence in this portfolio world doesn't support that....We are getting two more CMR airplanes in April....They pushed the envelope too far and are being punished for it....

The ALPA cheerleaders need to be pushing for brand scope....or accept the fact that we do have to compete with or fellow "brothers".....

 

[sweptback]

The ALPA cheerleaders like to say that pilot costs don't matter.....but the evidence in this portfolio world doesn't support that....We are getting two more CMR airplanes in April....They pushed the envelope too far and are being punished for it....

Really? Comair has lower 70-seat payrates and worse workrules than ASA, yet is giving ASA new airplanes because they are being punished for not being competitive?

We all know the real reason why the airplanes are being delivered here, and that is because Jerry negotiated that during the purchase of ASA.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Really? Comair has lower 70-seat payrates and worse workrules than ASA, yet is giving ASA new airplanes because they are being punished for not being competitive?

We all know the real reason why the airplanes are being delivered here, and that is because Jerry negotiated that during the purchase of ASA.

....OK then why didn't we get Horizon rates on the 700? Why didn't we extend the longevity for the 700 to match CHQ? You can't win this argument....Either costs do matter.....or our MEC/CNC screwed up on the 700 rates....

You cannot argue that costs don't matter and then justify a dollar an hour raise for the 700 folks.....Which is it sweptback??......

 

[sweptback]

....OK then why didn't we get Horizon rates on the 700? Why didn't we extend the longevity for the 700 to match CHQ? You can't win this argument....Either costs do matter.....or our MEC/CNC screwed up on the 700 rates....

You cannot argue that costs don't matter and then justify a dollar an hour raise for the 700 folks.....Which is it sweptback??......

I'm not going to argue with you. We got what we negotiated for and what the MEC thought the market would bear.

This is a weird line of questioning coming from someone who actively advocated accepting the company's offer and just "getting it done" anyway.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm not going to argue with you. We got what we negotiated for and what the MEC thought the market would bear.

...."the market would bear"? I thought pilot pay didn't decide who got airplanes....Horizon makes money and they make significantly more than we do on the 700.....You're not going to argue because you can't win this one....

Once again.....either pilot pay does matter in the portfolio, OR we came up well short of what we should be making on the 700...Pick a side and stick with it.....

This is a weird line of questioning coming from someone who actively advocated accepting the company's offer and just "getting it done" anyway.

That's not exactly what I was advocating......My point was that there were 4 areas that we were holding out for up until 4+ years into negotiations that were not supported by the industry standard.

They were:

1. Large payraises on the 700
2. B fund retirement plan
3. 100% retro pay
4. Leaving the instructor section status quo

We didn't get them did we? Industry standard didn't support these 4 large ticket items.....and the MEC finally dropped these demands....That's why we have an agreement today.....

We are competing with PCL, Mesa, mainline, CMR, Skywest, and CHQ......Pilot pay does matter when you compete for flying within a brand.....Either prevent the competition within the brand, or accept it and deal with it.....

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Spoken like someone with a cubicle in the GO.

This "y'all suck, clean it up or we're out of business" lecture is sooooooo last year. We're over it.

All of you in management need to do YOUR jobs and go beat the bushes to get us some flying. WE ARE doing our part. ASA's performance is better than ever and still improving. Now it's up to YOU GO RATS to hold Delta's feet to the fire to improve ground servicing and make truthful delay codes.

BUT STOP BLAMING THE F***ING PILOTS FOR ASA'S PROBLEMS!!!!!!!

Uh....read my post again man. I wasn't blaming the pilots for anything. And I wasn't saying that the pilots suck at all. We, the pilots, do an excellent job, and I think that management realizes that. All I said was that we all play our part, and that we all need to join a team atmosphere to be successful.

Your post, and the attitude that goes along with it, is what will prevent us from reaching our full potential. The people in the G/O work hard too, and they want us to be as successful as you do. We all work for ASA, including those "G/O rats" you were talking about.

My point was that George and John are gone, and we need to get rid of this divisiveness, and give SkyWest a chance. Brad Holt has done good things for us already. Let's see where his leadership takes us, and stop calling people names.

Essentially.....Grow up.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Uh....read my post again man. I wasn't blaming the pilots for anything. And I wasn't saying that the pilots suck at all. We, the pilots, do an excellent job, and I think that management realizes that. All I said was that we all play our part, and that we all need to join a team atmosphere to be successful.

Your post, and the attitude that goes along with it, is what will prevent us from reaching our full potential. The people in the G/O work hard too, and they want us to be as successful as you do. We all work for ASA, including those "G/O rats" you were talking about.

My point was that George and John are gone, and we need to get rid of this divisiveness, and give SkyWest a chance. Brad Holt has done good things for us already. Let's see where his leadership takes us, and stop calling people names.

Essentially.....Grow up.

I second that. JP lives in his own world where he thinks that everyone in the ASA pilot group shares his beliefs. There's a good word that describes him, and that word is fanaticism.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree...positive changes are happening....some people just can't stand it.....

 

[Tarzan]

But whatever shall we do when the number of the things we can complain about, begin to dwindle?

 

[777forever]

...."the market would bear"? I thought pilot pay didn't decide who got airplanes....Horizon makes money and they make significantly more than we do on the 700.....You're not going to argue because you can't win this one....

Once again.....either pilot pay does matter in the portfolio, OR we came up well short of what we should be making on the 700...Pick a side and stick with it.....




That's not exactly what I was advocating......My point was that there were 4 areas that we were holding out for up until 4+ years into negotiations that were not supported by the industry standard.

They were:

1. Large payraises on the 700
2. B fund retirement plan
3. 100% retro pay
4. Leaving the instructor section status quo

We didn't get them did we? Industry standard didn't support these 4 large ticket items.....and the MEC finally dropped these demands....That's why we have an agreement today.....

We are competing with PCL, Mesa, mainline, CMR, Skywest, and CHQ......Pilot pay does matter when you compete for flying within a brand.....Either prevent the competition within the brand, or accept it and deal with it.....

I talked to an ALPA rep who has analyzed all regional pay including payrates and more importantly, WORK RULES. Horizon may have higher 700 pay than ASA but ASA's work rules are far superior. When all the soft pay is factored in, ASA 700 pays more.