More Hostages at AAI

[ron burgundy]

Any truth to the rumor about 3 more being (possibly) suspended?

 

[Lear70]

Any truth to the rumor about 3 more being (possibly) suspended?

Yup. Our 3 MEC Officers, President Linden Hillman, VP Todd Ortscheid, and Sec/Treas Matt Helms.

They have not received their official letters yet, and with Linden and Todd on full-time buy, word is their suspensions will be held in abeyance until they return to the line. Don't know how long the suspensions were, and it's not official until the company pulls the trigger and sends the letter.

They are allegedly being suspended for authorizing pilots to wear their uniform brass for the last informational picketing in Atlanta. If so, I smell a whole series of lawsuits coming on... Time to pull the gloves off (actually it's way PAST time).

 

[Colonel Savage]

The uniform "brass" worn at the shareholder's meeting was generic. Why did they change the strategy?

 

[another cfii]

Just when you thought those geniuses in FL can't be more stupid to stir the hornet's nest, they do something like that to prove otherwise. Kinda glad i left when I had a chance, sigh...

 

[Ty Webb]

The uniform "brass" worn at the shareholder's meeting was generic. Why did they change the strategy?

Most likely, because we were at work (ATL Airport) and have an indisputable right to wear it? Also, we have a right to wear it off-campus, too, according to case law; the Union leadership just didn't want to "muddy the waters" and give the Company a "reason" to suspend 35-40 guys. At the Shareholders' Meeting, there were F/A's and Gate Agents there in uniform, go figure.

 

[FlyWolf]

All the picketing we did here at Midwest was in uniforms and brass, the only thing that we didn't have was the company ID, we picketed everywhere, HQ, MKE airport and even in front of Mr H own house, all with ALPA's blessings.

 

[T3700]

I hope the Dept of Labor is going to get involved. Only suspending union leadership for something that 150 pilots did smacks of selective enforcement. Why don't they suspend all 150 pilots?

 

[CoolSidePillow]

I remember hearing an airtran guy on the radio making fun of an ASA guy for taxiing slow a few years ago, but I'm with ya. Good luck over there.

The problem with that is the RJ puke was probably a student pilot and needed a progressive to find his way around.

 

[Lear70]

I hope the Dept of Labor is going to get involved. Only suspending union leadership for something that 150 pilots did smacks of selective enforcement. Why don't they suspend all 150 pilots?

Because it would seriously screw up operations to pull 150 pilots off the line, even 10 pilots at a time for a 1-week suspension, for the next 15 weeks would cause a problem.

Yes, the staffing is THAT tight, although it should let up some next month as block hours decrease. Heard a story today about a guy I used to fly with a Pinnacle who is an AirTran F/O - he took a flight today for double time pay. Deadhead 2 hours, fly 2 hours, deadhead 2 hours. 12 hours of flight pay equivalent for 2 hours of flying, an $800 day for him and he's home that same night.

If it weren't negotiations, I'd say go for it. As it is, I have a strong urge to call him and ask WTF but, knowing the guy, I can't say as I'm surprised, he'll never be on the union bandwagon...

Yes, discriminatory practice lawsuits are already in the wings, as are hostile work environment and several others. The DOL in both Florida and Georgia are being contacted with all the documentation as well. Have to have all your ducks in a row with the paper documentation to go with it before you pull the trigger on calling the DOL.

 

[N1VIBS]

The problem with that is the RJ puke was probably a student pilot and needed a progressive to find his way around.

Look around you sport. There are a heck of a lot of ex "RJ Pukes" at Air Tran!!

 

[Lear70]

Pretty much the entire bottom 70% of the seniority list...

Which is why the T.A.'s failed. Every single one of those guys and gals understands what happens when you lose Scope, knows they're not going to upgrade for 7-10 years, and they want their money back from the pay cut they took to come to work here, along with reasonable retirement, insurance, and work rules.

P.I.S.S.

or

FUPM

 

[Jetjockey]

All the picketing we did here at Midwest was in uniforms and brass, the only thing that we didn't have was the company ID, we picketed everywhere, HQ, MKE airport and even in front of Mr H own house, all with ALPA's blessings.

Sadly, Tim didn't care one bit since he knew he was going to replace every last one of you. He sold everyone out. I digress, back to the hostage taking in Atlanta.

 

[Britpilot]

Pretty much the entire bottom 70% of the seniority list...

Which is why the T.A.'s failed. Every single one of those guys and gals understands what happens when you lose Scope, knows they're not going to upgrade for 7-10 years, and they want their money back from the pay cut they took to come to work here, along with reasonable retirement, insurance, and work rules.

P.I.S.S.

or

FUPM

Amen to that.

 

[j41driver]

The uniform "brass" worn at the shareholder's meeting was generic. Why did they change the strategy?

Cuz that "strategy" was retarded.

 

[Lear70]

It's official.

MEC was suspended today. Not that they were flying anyway, 2 of the three were on full-time buy for negotiations anyway, but it's an important line that's now been crossed by the company.

Patiently waiting for the nuclear offensive option to begin... ok, not so patiently. Why can't our management be more like JB's and just do the right thing to begin with when it becomes obvious that it's needed? eh... *sigh*

 

[MCDU]

ALPA will take care of everything. Airtran has nothing to lose, because ALPA is here to save everyone. They have the resources and the backing of 1000's of other airline pilots that care about you and your job at Airtran. Just look at ALPA's track record and you will see that ALPA carriers fair better.

Good luck
M

 

[njcapt]

It's official.

MEC was suspended today. Not that they were flying anyway, 2 of the three were on full-time buy for negotiations anyway, but it's an important line that's now been crossed by the company.

Patiently waiting for the nuclear offensive option to begin... ok, not so patiently. Why can't our management be more like JB's and just do the right thing to begin with when it becomes obvious that it's needed? eh... *sigh*

It's because, no matter where they made their bones, AirTran management is steeped in Lorenzo-funk. They don't know any other way to deal with employees. Time for the nuclear option. Good luck to all my homies left at AirTran.

ALPO will be your demise.

You're spreading yourself too thin, fryer-boy. Your trolling is becoming increasingly lame and boring.

 

[dondk]

It's official.

MEC was suspended today. Not that they were flying anyway, 2 of the three were on full-time buy for negotiations anyway, but it's an important line that's now been crossed by the company.

Patiently waiting for the nuclear offensive option to begin... ok, not so patiently. Why can't our management be more like JB's and just do the right thing to begin with when it becomes obvious that it's needed? eh... *sigh*

1 day unpaid time off is too much, how much time are they looking at?

 

[PCL_128]

1 day unpaid time off is too much, how much time are they looking at?

14 day suspensions, but it's not unpaid yet, because the company held back the financial aspect until an arbitrator rules.

 

[Headfake14]

I wouldn't take that airplane, either, at least not without some pretty substantial information-gathering.

1) Are you legal to launch ETOPS with that bleed wired shut?

2) What if you lose your other bleed source? If you had to descend to 17,000 feet (APU limitation) would you still have safe/legal fuel reserves?

3) What was your alternate, and what is the MEA to get there? Will you have enough fuel to do it at 17,000 (or 16,000)? What if the APU isn't maintaining the cabin altitude, and you have to descend further? There are serious issues to consider, and it would probably be quicker to get me another aircraft than it would be to gather all of the information I would need to make an informed decision as PIC.

The problem, GT1900, is that you don't really know ALL of the circumstances of why another pilot who refused the equipment. You THINK you know, but all you REALLY know is Management's side of things.

Have you bothered to contact any of these pilots, and asked for their side of the story? Of course you haven't, or you wouldn't have come on here parroting management's positions on these matters.

Have a little respect for your fellow pilots, and if you can't be bothered to seek out both sides of what happened, then kindly refrain from posting misinformation and half-truths.

huh? Airtran doesn't have ETOPS.

 

[Headfake14]

It's official.

MEC was suspended today. Not that they were flying anyway, 2 of the three were on full-time buy for negotiations anyway, but it's an important line that's now been crossed by the company.

Patiently waiting for the nuclear offensive option to begin... ok, not so patiently. Why can't our management be more like JB's and just do the right thing to begin with when it becomes obvious that it's needed? eh... *sigh*

Gentlemen, I am very frustrated for you and I hope this gets resovled soon. I hadn't been on the message boards recently and had NO idea what was going down over there.

As far as our JB mgmt. Yes, they are doing "good" thing with a fairly healthy raise coming...they dodged a huge bullet last Feb with our unsucessful union vote. But, some damage may be non-repairable with the pilot group. This plan they (mgmt) are doing now should've happened in '08. A union WILL be here some day...hopefully for the right reasons.

Good luck fellas.

 

[MINIME]

It's official.

MEC was suspended today. Not that they were flying anyway, 2 of the three were on full-time buy for negotiations anyway, but it's an important line that's now been crossed by the company.

Patiently waiting for the nuclear offensive option to begin... ok, not so patiently. Why can't our management be more like JB's and just do the right thing to begin with when it becomes obvious that it's needed? eh... *sigh*

Sounding a little soft there Lear,

I hold you to a higher degree of understanding. You know that when it's all said and done, there's no room for feelings when dealing with most management teams. It's about the bottom line. It's all about the money. It's only a business to them.

They will do whatever is legally at their disposal to protect that bottom line, period. Pilots are nothing but a commodity/liability in their views. A part of the business that needs to be controlled to some degree in order to keep its costs down.

As such, we as pilots need to treat this situation the same way they do. As a business and about our bottom lines. No feelings, simply shrewd and smart legal tactics to accomplish our goals. Up to and including a strike if necessary. That's the only language they understand because that's the only way we affect their bottom lines.

Sorry Lear, couldn't help it....apologies in advance.

 

[Lear70]

Sounding a little soft there Lear,

I hold you to a higher degree of understanding. You know that when it's all said and done, there's no room for feelings when dealing with most management teams. It's about the bottom line. It's all about the money. It's only a business to them.

They will do whatever is legally at their disposal to protect that bottom line, period. Pilots are nothing but a commodity/liability in their views. A part of the business that needs to be controlled to some degree in order to keep its costs down.

As such, we as pilots need to treat this situation the same way they do. As a business and about our bottom lines. No feelings, simply shrewd and smart legal tactics to accomplish our goals. Up to and including a strike if necessary. That's the only language they understand because that's the only way we affect their bottom lines.

Sorry Lear, couldn't help it....apologies in advance.

You didn't offend me, no worries, buddy.

I understand that it's all a business decision to them, but it's a POOR business decision, in the LONG RUN, to so badly alienate your pilot base that, when the dust settles, it'll take YEARS to win back their good will, and some will NEVER forget it, aka the 8 and counting contract hostages, their families, and their friends.

And yeah, I'm feeling a little beat up. It'll be almost 3 YEARS before I get through the arbitration process with a decision, and they have already admitted to the Georgia Worker's Compensation courts that their basis for terminating me was incorrect, have no reason to hold me out, but *STILL* refuse to reinstate me, and won't give a reason why, even after I served them certified mail with two letters, one requesting my record cleared of the termination letter they know is false per the PRIA of 1996 (it's illegal to maintain a known false document in a PRIA file), and one directly to Fornaro himself politely but firmly requesting my job back; almost like they're DELIBERATELY provoking me to sue them by leaving me no alternative.

After everything that's happened as a result of their actions, you can bet I'd like nothing more than to have a less hostile management group, come to work, do my job, collect a paycheck worthy of my time, and GO HOME.

I know that the only way to get that kind of PROFESSIONAL treatment is to fight for it but, call me silly, after watching other airlines that aren't NEARLY this militant with their employees, I know there's a better way of doing business.

Oh, and by the way, just so you know I haven't gone COMPLETELY soft, here's the other part of that quote I wrote above:

Patiently waiting for the nuclear offensive option to begin... ok, not so patiently.

 

[Ty Webb]

huh? Airtran doesn't have ETOPS.

You're correct; we operate under a waiver to operate

 

[Ty Webb]

huh? Airtran doesn't have ETOPS.

You're correct; we operate under a waiver to operate up to 162nm from shore, within specific corridors. What is specifically called for to be operating, in order to operate under this waiver, well . . . it's not something that is ordinarily encountered, or typical . . . I'd have to check the Ops Specs, AOM, FOM, and probably a bazillion bulletins. The point I was trying to make is that there are many factors that have to be considered, and we may not have all of the information to know why someone refused an aircraft . . . . and that we should refrain from rendering judgment on their actions until the facts are known.