More Hostages at AAI

[FLYLOW22]

So how fast is your "brisk walk"?

Thanks to age 65, it's pretty slow. Walkers just don't go very fast.

 

[gt1900]

First off, what happened was B.S. But guys have to remember not to "ask" for it. Turning down airplanes for "safety" reasons when the airplane is perfectly "safe" to fly is putting a bullet on your back. Writing up things that can only be found under panels that aren't checked after the first flight of the day is also asking for it. There is a way to do it, and a way not to do it. If you push the company expect to get pushed back, and thats exactly what happened. Don't get me wrong, I don't think these guys should have been fired. But trust me, the company most likely has enough evidence to make these firings stick. The only way these guys are gonna get there jobs back is from an agreement on a TA that says the company will bring the fired pilots backonline, and the company knows that. My point is to be smart about right ups and taxi speed. There is a way to do it, and a way not to! You can taxi at 15 knots all you want, just make sure you wait 5 minutes after pushback to call for taxi. Don't taxi slow and back ATL up. Write up stuff when it happens, don't wait until you get to a non MX station (remember, the AC could very well already know whats wrong with it, and its logging it, so the company knows if you waited until a non MX station). This is called doing your job! They can't fire you for that!

 

[Lear70]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think these guys should have been fired. But trust me, the company most likely has enough evidence to make these firings stick. The only way these guys are gonna get there jobs back is from an agreement on a TA that says the company will bring the fired pilots backonline, and the company knows that.

Last I checked, you weren't an MEC officer, nor have you ever fought a termination case at arbitration, nor do you have all the information behind each case.

So even though you slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night, why don't you give these guys the benefit of the doubt (and us a rest from your armchair lawyering), and put a sock in it. Pretty please?

Thanks.

 

[atldc9]

So even though you slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night, why don't you give these guys the benefit of the doubt (and us a rest from your armchair lawyering), and put a sock in it. Pretty please?

Thanks.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Spud]

This is called doing your job! They can't fire you for that!

Well actually they can... at any time, for any reason.

Then someone can come a on this board and say how YOU were stupid for not waiting for a mx station to write that up, or for refusing a plane someone else would have taken.

Support Your fellow pilots.

 

[Lear70]

Pot meet kettle.

Touche'...

Although considering your background, I thought you'd be supportive of our hostages, too???

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[gt1900]

Lear. I know for a fact that some of our guys are doing some stupid chit on line right now. Stuff that can, and will get them fired. Some of the stuff is absolutely rediculous. Ive seen it with my own eyes. You aren't on line are you, you haven't seen it. Thats why I say there is a way to do things, and a way not to do things. Some of these guys are just asking to get fired. There is a way to send a message to the company without giving them a reason to fire you! However, some of these guys haven't learned that yet. If a captain turns down an airplane because they don't like the MEL that states the A/C is perfectly safe to fly you better have a darn good reason. When the manufacture says its ok to fly with the MEL, the FAA says its ok to fly with the MEL the company says its ok to fly with the MEL, MX says its ok, and all the pilots before you have flown with the MEL. Thats not the situation where you wanna delay, and cancel a flight because your trying to prove a point! IVe seen it, it wasn't the guys who have been fired either. Luckily, most of the guys who Ive flown with are still operating like profesionals, in a very safe manner. Like I said, there is a way to do things and a way not to. I 100% support our pilot hostages, but some of us do some pretty stupid chit some times.

 

[Captjiggles]

Lear are you saying the hostages did nothing wrong?

 

[PCL_128]

Lear are you saying the hostages did nothing wrong?

I certainly am. Do you see anything wrong with writing up broken planes?

 

[j41driver]

When the manufacture says its ok to fly with the MEL, the FAA says its ok to fly with the MEL the company says its ok to fly with the MEL, MX says its ok, and all the pilots before you have flown with the MEL. Thats not the situation where you wanna delay, and cancel a flight because your trying to prove a point!

Last I knew the CAPTAIN is the final authority on the safety of the flight...NOT the manufacturer...NOT the FAA...NOT the company...NOT maintenance...NOT any of the other pilots that have flown it before.

BTW - In '07, a Comair pilot was fired because he refused an airplane with an MEL'd lift motor on the airstair door. He just got his job back with full back pay and damages. Glad he had the balls to stand up for what he felt was right since at least one judge agreed with him. Here's the link... http://nky.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20090814/BIZ01/908150330/

 

[eaglesview]

Lear. I know for a fact that some of our guys are doing some stupid chit on line right now. Stuff that can, and will get them fired. Some of the stuff is absolutely rediculous. Ive seen it with my own eyes. You aren't on line are you, you haven't seen it. Thats why I say there is a way to do things, and a way not to do things. Some of these guys are just asking to get fired. There is a way to send a message to the company without giving them a reason to fire you! However, some of these guys haven't learned that yet. If a captain turns down an airplane because they don't like the MEL that states the A/C is perfectly safe to fly you better have a darn good reason. When the manufacture says its ok to fly with the MEL, the FAA says its ok to fly with the MEL the company says its ok to fly with the MEL, MX says its ok, and all the pilots before you have flown with the MEL. Thats not the situation where you wanna delay, and cancel a flight because your trying to prove a point! IVe seen it, it wasn't the guys who have been fired either. Luckily, most of the guys who Ive flown with are still operating like profesionals, in a very safe manner. Like I said, there is a way to do things and a way not to. I 100% support our pilot hostages, but some of us do some pretty stupid chit some times.

It's attitude like this that is giving the career away. People like you need to wake up and understand what it means to be a PIC and stop allowing "the company" into the cockpit.

 

[ATLplt]

gt...please, for the love of God, use paragraphs.

 

[Lear70]

Lear are you saying the hostages did nothing wrong?

Correct.

 

[gt1900]

gt...please, for the love of God, use paragraphs.

Its flight info. He11, I don't even use complete sentences!

If I was management, Id fire some of these idiots as well. I know some of you guys hate managment no matter what happens, but its common sense. Some of the chit I saw was absolutely rediclous. Just because your the PIC it doesn't give you the authority to make up stupid chit on your own. Yes, the PIC is the final authority on the operation of the aircraft, but when the PIC decides not to fly a perfectly good airplane then its the company's right to replace that PIC with someone who will. Its the same in any industry. We are employees, we are expected to do the job we were hired to do. If we decide not to do that job, we get let go. It really is that simple. Like I said, there is a way to do things and a way not to. Some of the guys haven't figured that out!

 

[Ty Webb]

If I was management, Id fire some of these idiots as well. I know some of you guys hate managment no matter what happens, but its common sense. If we decide not to do that job, we get let go.

This isn't the same "Battered Pilot Shelter" that it was when you got hired here.

"Those idiots" were doing their jobs, and writing up stuff that jerks like you carry all day, and then leave for someone else to write up.

"Those idiots" are standing up for themselves, and for their fellow pilots.

"Those idiots" have honor, and principles.

You aren't fit to lick "those idiots'" boots.

What have you done for your fellow pilots, besides stand on the sidelines and throw rocks at them, while making points with management?

How many Union committees have you served on, (not anti-union ones, like the PAB)? How many SPC events have you attended? How much money have you donated to our pilots who were furloughed, or sick with cancer or . . or . . . or . . ? The answer is pretty evident.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Last I knew the CAPTAIN is the final authority on the safety of the flight...NOT the manufacturer...NOT the FAA...NOT the company...NOT maintenance...NOT any of the other pilots that have flown it before.

BTW - In '07, a Comair pilot was fired because he refused an airplane with an MEL'd lift motor on the airstair door. He just got his job back with full back pay and damages. Glad he had the balls to stand up for what he felt was right since at least one judge agreed with him. Here's the link... http://nky.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20090814/BIZ01/908150330/

Dont get too excited about this case, part of the agreement was that he would immediately resign from the company as soon as the decision was issued - whether he won or lost. Not much of a win in my opinion. Also a really stupid reason not to accept an airplane. He deserved what he got if you ask me.

 

[relief tube]

if all this crap about airtran's true- firing pilots left and right, it makes regional management groups look like saints.

 

[gt1900]

Ty.... Obviously you and I have gone around and around. Those "idiots" are waiting until they get to a station that doesn't have MX to write up problems. They are also checking things that arent required to be checked. Lets face it. Mgt knows we don't go out of our way to find broken chit, so when we do it raises eyebrow. Sometimes, the A/C has already told MX about the problem way before it gets written up. Im all for guys writing up something when you find out about the issue. But don't wait until you get to a station that doesn't have MX to write it up. Thats asking for issues. Thats the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

What Ive done for my fellow pilots is write up things when I see them. No matter if its in ATL or RSW. Youd be amazed how much a little dent in the wing can slow things up. I also suggest to cpts they taxi at a "safe" speed. You can "bash" me all you want, but I do it the "right" way. When its done properly youd be amazed what happens!

 

[FL717]

Yes, the PIC is the final authority on the operation of the aircraft, but when the PIC decides not to fly a perfectly good airplane then its the company's right to replace that PIC with someone who will.

I don't know you so I won't start a name calling fest with you.

I have read your entire post... but have highlighted a portion of your quote above to make my point:

These Captains weren't simply "replaced" by another PIC. These Captains were "FIRED". Bam... GONE.

Huge difference, and completely contrary to the FAR's.

Also... the company chose to combine a myriad of separate "issues" with these particular Captains to create a single, generic, and arbitrary cause to actually end their careers and source of income livelihood.

People tend to whitewash through the meaning of "fired". This is VERY serious life changing trauma for these career Captains.... and I believe that FIRING them was completely excessive "punishment".... period.

 

[carl p]

I can speak to the life changing experience of being super senior one day with a great job making good cash, and bam unemployed (mine was due to BK) the next....It really sucks no matter how it happens, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Only in this crazy occupation can you go from $153/hr to $43/hr in the course of 3 days. It sure changes your perspective. I still felt lucky to have the new job though.

Best of luck to our brothers, I hope we get some kind of fund set up quick.