More growth for ASA

[Tomct]

:angryfireYou got that RIGHT Go Around!! We are NOT taking pay cuts and they finally got that through their THICK heads! They realized that if they kept up the kool aid parties, they would have a lot of airplanes sitting!!!! We are all sick and tired of the BS and they know that WE (ASA) are NOT going to take it. Now, the ball is in the court of the Skywst pilots because I know that they are more expensive to operate, but JA is trying to keep his pilot group thinking that IF they get the airplanes, THEY will keep the Union off property!!! Hopefully they are smarter than THAT, WHO KNOWS!!
Stand United ASA PILOTS!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

A couple of points,

1) We do not have a rate in our contract for flying an aircraft with greater than 70 seats. If they want to stuff a first class, or more seats in the tube I fly, then they are doing it for one reason........MORE REVENUE! For most of history, airline pilot pay has been based on the capacity to generate revenue. More revenue, more pay. It is a concession to fly the 705 at our current 70 RATES! While I could see the same group of pilots flying it (very few differences compared to the 200-700), I think there ought to be a couple of bucks an hour override, or something similar. I also feel that our F/A's ought to get a premium for the training and service for first class.

2) In Jerry's World, I see more of what happened this winter with airplanes headed to ASA and then shifted to Skywest because of costs. Even though the latest DOT Form 41 data shows that ASA's cost per block hour is $1760 ($322 flight crew) compares to Skywest's cost of $2087 per hour ($327 flight crew). When asked about this differnce in cost, JA claimed the numbers posted to the DOT were BS. Hummm??? So, tell us the truth. OK, I'll tell you. It is all about controlling the union. These last minute shifts are a one, two punch for JA. It beats ASA down, and it lifts up Skywest. Thereby creating a morale that will hopefully keep off the union even though it is costing him more.

If JA really wanted to save money all it would cost him is about 10 bucks. That would cover the cost of a padlock and three feet of chain to wrap around the front door handles of 100 Hartsfield Centre Parkway.

1. You can try for that, but my understanding is that even the Delta pilots no longer get an overide on the 76 versus the 75. General?

2. Jerry has limited maneuvering room when it comes to games like that. Unlike when we were owned by Delta, and ASA was accountable to no one (no ASA shareholders), Atkin has shareholders and a board of directors. If he's operating the company unprofitably just to punish ASA ALPA, it won't last long.

 

[paid4training]

The mins are 1200/200. After I submitted my resume, a lady called me back and said that I did not have the proper mins (1000/100). But luckily I had some King Air SIC time by the grace of God, and they told me that helped me to get an application and interview date after I explained my situation.

What situation...the Gay porn star situation? sorry had to!!!:beer:

 

[~~~^~~~]

The reason ASA's costs are lower in the DOT numbers could be the 50 seat pay being less than the 50 seat pay at SkyWest. I also don't know, but ASA's stage length could be longer, which would have the effect of lowering costs.

Is Scott Hall being correctly quoted about not honoring this contract? If so, that would make it very hard for the Company to win a grievance. As far as honoring the next contract, has anyone seen the language? Section 13 might not be a done deal if it continues the practices of unlimited involuntary out of seniority junior manning, no compensation (in days off) for days off taken and a better reserve system.

When the bottom 1/4th, or 1/3rd, of the seniority list on the CRJ700 is either bidding FO at another base, or hatching some other scheme to take a pay cut to get off reserve, it is a pretty strong indicator that something is wrong in scheduling. 70 seat pay apparently is not worth having to be crew scheduling's detainee.

 

[Phony Marconi]

The reason ASA's costs are lower in the DOT numbers could be the 50 seat pay being less than the 50 seat pay at SkyWest. I also don't know, but ASA's stage length could be longer, which would have the effect of lowering costs.

Is Scott Hall being correctly quoted about not honoring this contract? If so, that would make it very hard for the Company to win a grievance. As far as honoring the next contract, has anyone seen the language? Section 13 might not be a done deal if it continues the practices of unlimited involuntary out of seniority junior manning, no compensation (in days off) for days off taken and a better reserve system.

When the bottom 1/4th, or 1/3rd, of the seniority list on the CRJ700 is either bidding FO at another base, or hatching some other scheme to take a pay cut to get off reserve, it is a pretty strong indicator that something is wrong in scheduling. 70 seat pay apparently is not worth having to be crew scheduling's detainee.

YES! Very well-said.

If we had clear-headed, no BS guys like you in charge, we wouldn't be in such bad shape. Yo, LeBarbeque, get the f&%k outta here!

 

[FL990]

The mins are 1200/200. After I submitted my resume, a lady called me back and said that I did not have the proper mins (1000/100). But luckily I had some King Air SIC time by the grace of God, and they told me that helped me to get an application and interview date after I explained my situation.

just out of curiosity, what kind of king air were you flying that you could log SIC time??

 

[HoserASA]

As far as honoring the next contract, has anyone seen the language? Section 13 might not be a done deal if it continues the practices of unlimited involuntary out of seniority junior manning, no compensation (in days off) for days off taken and a better reserve system.

Only the association negotiating committee and the MEC, and the company of course, are privy to the language. As a pilot, you'll see the language when the MEC accepts the negoiated contract, and then you will vote for or against it. Section 13 has been TA'd, but like you say, it's not a 'done deal' until the entire contract is voted in.

As a pilot-to-pilot member, our briefing last week from the negotiating committee chairman had nothing but positive comments for Secton 13. Better language, more hoops for schedulers to go thru before extending a lineholder, long & short call reserve, and a section that will be easier to understand and follow by ASA pilots. No details were given just a broad overview but John Rice (Negot. Comm. Chair) was very satisfied with the end results.

Next time you see the negotiators in the crew lounge, talk to them and thank them for their hard work. They deserve it. Ask them about your concerns too. They will listen and note your concerns. And, they don't bite so talk to them!

Hoser

 

[BoilerUP]

just out of curiosity, what kind of king air were you flying that you could log SIC time??

Could have been a 350 or pt. 135 SIC time...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Could have been a 350 or pt. 135 SIC time...

The 350 doesn't require 2 pirates does it???

 

[FmrFreightDog]

The 350 doesn't require 2 pirates does it???

Don't think so. It requires a type, but it's still single pirate, I think.

 

[BoilerUP]

If I'm not mistaken...the KA350 is certified as a single pilot airplane, but only if your type ride was single pilot. I think it has a single pilot waiver restriction similar to a Citiation SP...

 

[Mustang5.0]

The official minima are 1200/200.

I think the mins are still 600/100. Someone on aviationinterviews.com was just interviewed with 800/200 just 2 days ago (May 2nd)....and the ASA website still says 600/100????

When were the mins supposedly raised?

 

[wms]

Straight from SGU:
3 GECAS (former Independence) CR2's that are already on property will be put in use in July. The first 705 is scheduled for delivery in August (that's firm) with an unknown number to follow later. Hiring 40 a month through at least July. Official minimums are still 600/100.
Skywest Inc. also reported an income of $.57 a share, a 80% increase over last year.

Source? There is nothing on the ASA/SKW or Bombardier web sites. I doubt a real announcement would be made before the DAL TA is voted on. It wouldn't be good to make an announcement like that only to have the DAL pilots vote the TA down. All this talk about pay, kool aid, etc is pointless until a formal announcement is made.

 

[FishandFly]

Not at the same time, yet. Anyway, it looks like your strategy of just "getting the airplanes and hoping the DL pilots will approve it" could work. But, there is still a vote coming, and it may be close. Regardless, because we ALLOWED a certain weight allowance for RJs, and your 705 met that anyway even with 70 seats, I believe they would have shown up anyway. I always said "they would look great with lie flat sleeper seats....." So, you may fly them anyway. Too bad they will be at 50 seat wages most likely. I don't think JA will allow a huge difference in pay (if any difference) for your ASA planes vs SkyWest planes. He will make sure they are the same. Good luck, though.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Better 50 seat pay than 90 seat delta pay

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I think the mins are still 600/100. Someone on aviationinterviews.com was just interviewed with 800/200 just 2 days ago (May 2nd)....and the ASA website still says 600/100????

When were the mins supposedly raised?

The minima were raised when ASA thought they would get the CoEx ERJs. It is hard to upgrade people when you have low time FOs that cannot upgrade due to company or FAA rules.

The website may not be updated, but if you don't have any advanced jet training or experience, or don't know someone, you aren't getting in with under 1200/200.

 

[rjcap]

The website may not be updated, but if you don't have any advanced jet training or experience, or don't know someone, you aren't getting in with under 1200/200.

Not quite true. The most recent new hire class had pilots with barely 200 hours in it. I think mostly low low time ASA interns .

I don't think the company has any success hiring higher time pilots. They're better off at the fractionals.

 

[Tomct]

:angryfireThat is because they know how pissed off we "Senior Pilots" are at this point! They are hoping that with these low time guys they will get them onboard with their "kool-aid" talking BS!! Hopefully we will be able to SET THE YOUNGINS' STRAIGHT!

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

:angryfireThat is because they know how pissed off we "Senior Pilots" are at this point! They are hoping that with these low time guys they will get them onboard with their "kool-aid" talking BS!! Hopefully we will be able to SET THE YOUNGINS' STRAIGHT!

Here is one "senior pilot" who is not "pissed off". I am making good money, and have a good schedule. That is more than I can say for many others in this business now. The grass is mighty green on this side of the fence Tomct. Be careful of the ALPA kool-aid BS.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Why is it that if someone wants improvements to our contract that they are listening to the ALPA BS? If we didn't have a union(ALPA or whoever) wouldn't we be striving for the same improvements to our work rules and everything else? I would.

So Voice, you would be happy with status quo or less? You want an in house union like SKW that has a working agreement that is basicly written in pencil? I wouldn't.

 

[HoserASA]

Here is one "senior pilot" who is not "pissed off". I am making good money, and have a good schedule. That is more than I can say for many others in this business now. The grass is mighty green on this side of the fence Tomct. Be careful of the ALPA kool-aid BS.

ALPA BS indeed! Voice, who the hell do you think achieved those good schedules and pay for you? I don't know if you're management or not, and really don't care. But there are more positives for ALPA than negatives. If you're ever in an accident, lose your medical, or heaven forbid, fired, you'll realize the true benefit of having ALPA on property. They're not perfect, and guess what? Management is far from it too! Just look at what they want to take away! Reduce 700 pay, per diem, and premium & cancel pay for starters! How would that affect your 'good money' then? Thought so.

Hoser
Best to Bob Arnold in retirement and his future pursuits! Thanks!

 

[ASARJMan]

Easy Hoser boy, that's just ole Scotty stirring it up. He's outa here this summer. From a reliable source which I can't reveal. heard ChiExp wants him back. hahaha

 

[goodto50meters]

If JA really wanted to save money all it would cost him is about 10 bucks. That would cover the cost of a padlock and three feet of chain to wrap around the front door handles of 100 Hartsfield Centre Parkway.

This is the most reasoned, money saving, bullsh!t removing, incompetent killing, and corporation saving idea to hit FlightInfo ever!

Booooooyahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

I can see this being said on 'Mad Money' as the main anchor holding back a SKW stock mega bull session.

Sorry Brian and Scotty, ....Oh sorry, I mean 'A Voice of Reason and CRJSkipper'-but its true.

You loose, you do not pass go and you do not collect squat!

 

[General Lee]

The dumbest thing I have ever read

Better 50 seat pay than 90 seat delta pay

Did I just read that right? You would rather have 50 seat SkyWest pay over Delta 90 seat pay? Even though you could maybe move UP and make more for bigger planes, when SkyWest's rates go up to 99 seats at 50 seat pay? Really? Koookooo. Kooookooo. Well, ok then.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Not quite true. The most recent new hire class had pilots with barely 200 hours in it. I think mostly low low time ASA interns .

I don't think the company has any success hiring higher time pilots. They're better off at the fractionals.

Well, I said if you have advanced aircraft training or know someone, you can get in with lower time. Interns both know someone in the company, and have advanced sim training. All of the interns get time in the simulator and systems ground school. Some of the interns even get to go through the entire CRJ training course while they work here, complete with check-ride.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Did I just read that right? You would rather have 50 seat SkyWest pay over Delta 90 seat pay? Even though you could maybe move UP and make more for bigger planes, when SkyWest's rates go up to 99 seats at 50 seat pay? Really? Koookooo. Kooookooo. Well, ok then.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General - did I just read you right, that Delta's (and Northwest's and US Air's) sub RJ pay rates are justified because of the promise of flying bigger airplanes? Maybe we need a thread on Big Jet Syndrome.

We all need to stop accepting low pay in exchange for management promises of some future payoff. Management is great at making promises they don't (or can't) keep.

You used to talk so nasty about Jet Blue's Embraer rates..... I'm starting to miss the ol' General.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I have to say, though training is the usual firehose, I sure am glad to be finished with the whole ASA/DL/CMR/SKY debate/debacle.
Enjoy....

 

[General Lee]

General - did I just read you right, that Delta's (and Northwest's and US Air's) sub RJ pay rates are justified because of the promise of flying bigger airplanes? Maybe we need a thread on Big Jet Syndrome.

We all need to stop accepting low pay in exchange for management promises of some future payoff. Management is great at making promises they don't (or can't) keep.

You used to talk so nasty about Jet Blue's Embraer rates..... I'm starting to miss the ol' General.

I stopped slamming B6 because I realized the pilots really had NO say in their rates, and that they were imposed on them. I kinda see that with us too, because we are in a corner and DL will probably give them to somebody. I have been told by many pilots that it is best to get the plane on the property first, and then raise the rates during the next contract talks, than to give them away and never see them again except at your regional feed.

But, regardless, B6 management has set the bar for the 100 seat rate, and that will affect every other 100 seat rate, and anything below it---like 50 or 70 seat rates. Dave Neeleman probably received a dozen roses from every airline management out there, and smiled with his big grin each time. Ah.......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FishandFly]

I stopped slamming B6 because I realized the pilots really had NO say in their rates, and that they were imposed on them. I kinda see that with us too, because we are in a corner and DL will probably give them to somebody. I have been told by many pilots that it is best to get the plane on the property first, and then raise the rates during the next contract talks, than to give them away and never see them again except at your regional feed.

But, regardless, B6 management has set the bar for the 100 seat rate, and that will affect every other 100 seat rate, and anything below it---like 50 or 70 seat rates. Dave Neeleman probably received a dozen roses from every airline management out there, and smiled with his big grin each time. Ah.......


Bye Bye--General Lee

That's ironic. It is the same theory those who hope to make a career at our 'regional' feel. Which seems promising seeing that our company is smarter than all of the airlines we "feed". Our problem is that now you're flying bigger planes than we have for less money. Quite the dilema.

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

I stopped slamming B6 because I realized the pilots really had NO say in their rates, and that they were imposed on them. .......


Bye Bye--General Lee

Why is it that this dork picks on Skywest pilots for not being unionized but not JB pilots?

Is it because he's only here on the regional boards to stir up smack?


Yeah, he's just here for the 'debate'. What a crock!

 

[General Lee]

Why is it that this dork picks on Skywest pilots for not being unionized but not JB pilots?

Is it because he's only here on the regional boards to stir up smack?


Yeah, he's just here for the 'debate'. What a crock!

Well, we once again hear from one of my stalkers (my initials are in his name--creepy). SkyWest didn't have a 5 year contract for their pilots to sign before they got hired. SkyWest actually has had national union drives before, and have shot them down, only to get pi$$ed on shortly afterwards. (where is that 2% raise?) Now the B6 rampers may unionize, which may create a ripple in B6 and maybe more union drives will pop up. Unions are not terrible for all airlines--look at Southwest, they are the most unionized airline out there, and they seem to be doing fine. SkyWest's inhouse union (or association) is actually funded by management, which makes me a little nervous, and that is why I ask a lot of questions on this board. Is it my right to ask questions and form opinions? You bet. Any of you can do the same about DL, and I will give my opinions on that too. Have a great day.

Bye Bye--General Lee