More Furlough Rumblings at Flex

[netjetwife]

After 10 pages one shouldn't be surprised when FI members discuss other topics while waiting for additional info on the original subject to be posted. I thought pilots were good at multi-tasking...

Regarding camaraderie: It isn't necessary to know the name of a person in your neighborhood just to have a chat when you walk past their house. Friendliness adds to the atmosphere of an area. Same here. Pilots and their family members often have more in common with each other (because of the lifestyle) than they do with other groups so it's natural for them to chat in a frac forum--about big issues and daily life.

Re Unions: As previously stated, they give frac pilots a place at the table and the opportunity to see that solutions/rules are fair. Pilots have a legal right to organize their efforts and have their interests represented by one of their own. Holding an election to see what the majority wants is the American way.

 

[EatSleepFly]

After 10 pages one shouldn't be surprised when FI members discuss other topics while waiting for additional info on the original subject to be posted. I thought pilots were good at multi-tasking...

Sorry, I kind of forgot I was a pilot, it's been awhile. :0

Carry on...

 

[GSXR600]

While I would the opportunity to defend my lifestyle choice and point out that I am far from a luxury item, I have to agree with GSXR600 that there are more pressing matters at hand. Surely someone out there has some info that can be helpful? I noticed there was a pre-emptive strike by FR that cuts were coming, and we know they were to happen by last friday, but not a single word has been said as to exactly what was done. How's that the typical for lack of transparency?

As for the type of OT John McClain described, I don't think that's the kind that upsets most people, John. I think its when people are calling in and asking for extra duty, bidding days up to the max etc... It just kinda sucks while people are on the street to know there are people who are all about ME ME ME. Perhaps you are right and most people are intrinscially greedy and selfish, but I do know it is a concern that it is happening. And I do want to defend you for a bit John -- you are right Flexjet is an awesome place to work especially in light of the PLENTY of other aviation jobs my husband has had. But it could be better, more awesomer if you will, and the answer to that solution is all I think most are seeking. If you have a real solution that doesn't include a like it or lump it sentiment I betcha you would be surprised at how much respect you'd garner, at least from me. I'm sure that's your number one priority ;-)

I do just want to say though Dooker that when I left my career (and it was a career, not a job) to raise my kids, the last thing on my mind was whether or not it would elevate my husband's status among his peers to have the ultimate luxury item. The income hit we took forced us to make tough choices, we sold our home, moved to a smaller one and downscaled considerably. My car might be old, my clothes might not be as trendy and it's been forever since I ordered wine in a fancy restaurant but I wouldn't ever change a thing about it. Our family time is precious and we actually get to have some because when my husband is at work I have the time to do things for him so he can relax while he's home. He gets to worry more about what he and my son will do for the day then which drycleaner is on the way to the bike shop or home depot. I know how to work a lawnmower, grout a tub and fillout a Flexjet expense form. I also keep track of all his hours and let me tell you I have found $$ mistakes on his paychecks more than a few times this year. (Sidenote: If you are just leaving it up to Flexjet to make sure you get paid for your hourly OT I have some Arizona oceanfront property to sell you.) (And I'm just talking the daily over 12 stuff: He DOES NOT pick up extra days) If I had a job I wouldn't do one of these things let alone a all of them. Life is far from June Cleaver for me. But I love it and honestly feel when I look back 20 years from now I will feel I accomplished far greater things than my job, as awesome as it was, would have ever afforded me. I do some part time work, but only sporadically and more to give my husband alone time than anything else!

Perhaps it is a luxury for him to know he and our kids are my number one priority, but I dare you to name me a single man that wouldn't like for the same. (And that is NOT a diss on working Moms or families who make different choices, just the way our life has worked out.)

Damn girl!!!............ya'll got a sister? But shiizzzzzz......dont tell her I am on welfare....

 

[notapilot]

It doesn't matter what job you have if you spend more than you make. That was his point. If you want to fund a McMansion, a huge boat, a sports car, the Harley collection and two Beemers, the ol' lady better make some coin! Is it clear now?

My sarcastic question gets a sarcastic answer. I don't know anyone who lives the lifestyle you describe relying on OT, but ok.

 

[netjetwife]

.... I am not on the sidelines, I am in the game. As a complete partner to my husband, this very much concerns me, I think about it all the time and try to be as knowledgable and interactive as I can be in order to support him better. I know that some of you either don't believe that or it pi$$es you off or you think I have overstepped my bounds, but I can assure you it's the only partner I know how to be. Same here. Kudos to you Flexwife!

Granted I am not flying out on the line and as a non pilot I know that automatically disqualifies me to some of you, but believe me I am invested in what happens at flex in more ways than one. It effects not just my husband but our entire family. Absolutely! And there's no one better suited to represent our families than a pilot likewise affected who was elected by majority vote. ... There are serious matters at hand for the economy, the industry and this company. Exactly! And when management wants to make changes that negatively impact pilots and their families the pilots need to be sitting at the table for the full discussion, speaking in one voice with legal standing that can't be ignored. ....

The thread is about how scared crapless some of us are to lose what we have and how pi$$ed some of us are that some have already lost. ... .... .

If the economy doesn't improve quickly I very much fear that a lot of NJ folks will wind up in the same position. Many are already worried, but they know that NJASAP is at the table making sure their interests are represented and the contract is followed to ensure fairness. BTW, the NJ contract has rules in place that make sure furloughs are a last resort, not just an easy fix for management. If furloughs are unavoidable the pilots have unlimited recall rights. Aren't Flex pilots getting only 2 yrs? That just adds more stress and frustration to a situation that's already bad. Flex families can't count on getting Cobra money, right? Management could change that at anytime, couldn't they? NJ pilots get a lot of peace of mind knowing that rules they negotiated will be followed. It's an assurance Flex families deserve, too. Best wishes to you and your family, Flexwife, and to the rest of your pilotgroup. BTW, my personal definition of pilotgroup includes the family members ...for all the reasons you stated in your post. Hang in there! NJW

 

[Dingo221]

Remember, Netjet lost 449 millions $ in 6 months!
Do you want some fries with that ?

 

[netjetwife]

Corporation finances get complicated so I'm not sure what the total actual loss is but suffice it to say the economic crisis has hit NJ, too, which is why I posted that furloughs are a real concern. I doubt that anyone associated w/NJ needs a numerical reminder of how bad things are.

My family discusses the situation a lot. We're glad a strong contract is in place that spells out exactly how furloughs, downgrades, etc would take place and precisely what operational changes management can make without NJASAP's agreement. The road ahead could get very bumpy for NJ folks as the new CEO puts the Company back on track but fortunately the CBA takes most of the stressful guesswork out of the equation. Reading this thread, it sounds like the Flex pilotgroup is dealing with a lot more uncertainty and might be left in the dark until management announces their decisions. That's gotta be tough! In contrast, NJASAP leaders have already met the new CEO and the pilots are being kept fully informed every step of the way.

It's a risky proposition to rely on management's good will in the best economy when they may be feeling generous; doing so in grim economic times can be downright scary. I definitely wouldn't want my husband's career/our family's income left to the whim of managers at a time when many look out only for themselves and/or consider no interests outside of their own. Good luck to all our frac families in these difficult days, especially to those who have more questions than answers, be it no job or no information. You have my sympathy. NJW

 

[DUATS]

Remember, Netjet lost 449 millions $ in 6 months!
Do you want some fries with that ?

I wonder how much of that was one time charges to cover the cost of the furlough mitigation agreements?

 

[netjetwife]

Upon closer examination there's a lot more than meets the eye. For example, the early out package looks like a big cost initially but won't it save money when NJ isn't paying the full salary to those pilots? Likewise, when NJ has to buy back the shares of owners who've had to cut back, doesn't it show up as a loss now but will be an asset when the market rebounds and the share is resold?

Luckily, the NJASAP President and the VP of Finances get regular financial briefings from the Company so they're able to monitor the situation and asses the pilotgroup's position. No one likes to hear bad news, but being kept in the dark with no time to prepare would be even worse in most eyes. For those facing an uncertain future every valid piece of info means a lot. Public thanks for the NJASAP (4-1-1) updates and kudos to those who help bring the news to the NJ pilots and their families. NJW

 

[ArtVandalay]

Ok little man, I'll bite this last time and then I'm done because you truly are the definition of a MORON, and there is no getting through to someone who is by their history on this forum so disgruntled with his current place in life. I have tried to find just one of your many posts that had at least an inkling of positivity about FlexJet, but no dice. I'll say it again, your avatar fits you absolutely perfectly.

First things first, you made an assumption about my CAB membership based on my attitude. CAB members have a specific attitude? Interesting. How many of the current members do you actually know personally? I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't name 2 of the current members if you tried, but you know enough to claim that they have an identifiable ATTITUDE. Ok then, whatever.

I never said flight time made, or in your words "entitles" me to understand business, flight time is a result of experience as an aviation professional and my 28 years has enabled me to acquire a significant amount of flight time. You make another assumption, (you like doing that don't you) that my or for that matter, anybody else's experience in aviation is just sitting in an airplane. This assumption alone is a perfect example of what I've been talking about and shows just how immature, inexperienced and moronic you really are. While i have done a significant amount of sitting in various aircraft, the fact of the matter is you don't know a damn thing about me or your chosen profession if you feel sitting in an airplane is the only way to earn a distinguished badge of knowledge. What do you suppose I was doing in addition to just sitting in an airplane during those 17 years I spent prior to coming to work for FlexJet you simple minded, spoiled, give it to me now twerp.

Face it, you are a mental midget and out of your league here. it's so funny that it's almost sad such simple minded one thought wonders can with out a doubt proclaim that the end all solution to the so called sodomizing you claim to regularly receive at FlexJet can be solved by a UNION.

Your final statement speaks volumes about your maturity level and again your obvious lack of experience other than Flex or possibly flight instruction. I have never considered myself "in charge of" flight attendants. I've always considered them as fellow crewmembers and part of a team, sometimes 10 of them and I always treated them with the respect they have earned and certainly deserved. I would suggest that some day if you should find yourself IN CHARGE of some flight attendants, you park that ego or get the coffee or crewmeals yourself.

Thank you. You just reinforced exactly what my point was! You're right, I was wrong about you being on the CAB. I WAS right about you being in the 604 and that just validates my point. It's because your type are all the same. Answer the damn question and quit being a politician. "flight time is a result of experience"???? What does that statement mean?? I think you've shown us who the moron is, AGAIN. Please don't respond because you only dig yourself deeper with your rant.