More Furlough Rumblings at Flex

[Sandlapper]

All I'm saying is, a marriage with two incomes is like a plane with two engines. You lose one, you still stay in the air. Or at least you don't reach the crash site so fast.
And none of the OT w h o r e s I've met had wives who lost their jobs. Their wives never had jobs to begin with.

I've traveled all over the world, and the only two places I've been where this weird situation (seemingly intelligent, educated women stuck in exclusively domestic roles) seems to exist are here and the Middle East, and it really didn't even come into being here until the fifties. Before that, working class women (and, yes, pilots are working class) were just as likely as men to work, even if married.

My mom and dad both worked--they were teachers. I never felt that I or my sisters ever were the worse for it. If anything, I believe a working mom is a healthier role model for girls than a stay-at-homer.

And here's another thing. I've made an informal study of friends' wives--those who work versus those who stay at home all day. Those who work seem waaaaayyy happier and, well, normal, to me than those who hang around the house all day trying to invent things to occupy themselves.

A home-bound wife is a luxury item, just like a Lexus or a country club membership or a big boat. If you have one, and you have to pick up every overtime shift that comes along, you get no sympathy from me.

Gotta weigh in here...I grew up in a house where both parents worked full time, grew up in daycare centers, latchkey kid, etc. I envied my friends who came home from school & had their Mom there to encourage homework being done, etc. My parents just kind of assumed (& hoped) that we were all doing the right things.

As the parent of 3 young kids, both my wife and I agree that the best investment we can make right now for them is having us raise them as opposed to nannies & daycare centers. They'll be better for it, and so will we. I take the opposite view as you - I would consider having a spouse that works as a luxury item. Its the lifestyle you chose to lead as a single-income family that falls into the "luxury" category. A guy that gets himself so underwater on a single income is a sad sight...a little prior planning & budgetary discipline goes a long way. I drive a 10 year old car, we clip coupons every Sunday, and we teach our kids the importance of saving money as one of life's everyday lessons. I've got a 3 gallon jug in our living room where I empty all my spare change at the end of the day & encourage my kids to pick up pennies & contribute. At the end of the year, we count it all (usually around $1,000) and buy something for the entire family.

Maybe I'm lucky, but then again, maybe I created my own luck. Everyone does what works best for them - no judgement here, just thought I'd share my personal situation.

 

[BarryMan]

Gotta weigh in here...I grew up in a house where both parents worked full time, grew up in daycare centers, latchkey kid, etc. I envied my friends who came home from school & had their Mom there to encourage homework being done, etc. My parents just kind of assumed (& hoped) that we were all doing the right things.

As the parent of 3 young kids, both my wife and I agree that the best investment we can make right now for them is having us raise them as opposed to nannies & daycare centers. They'll be better for it, and so will we. I take the opposite view as you - I would consider having a spouse that works as a luxury item. Its the lifestyle you chose to lead as a single-income family that falls into the "luxury" category. A guy that gets himself so underwater on a single income is a sad sight...a little prior planning & budgetary discipline goes a long way. I drive a 10 year old car, we clip coupons every Sunday, and we teach our kids the importance of saving money as one of life's everyday lessons. I've got a 3 gallon jug in our living room where I empty all my spare change at the end of the day & encourage my kids to pick up pennies & contribute. At the end of the year, we count it all (usually around $1,000) and buy something for the entire family.

Maybe I'm lucky, but then again, maybe I created my own luck. Everyone does what works best for them - no judgement here, just thought I'd share my personal situation.

Very well said sir...........could not agree with you more!!!

 

[ArtVandalay]

Mr mclain, I did not state as a fact you were on the CAB. I assumed it based on your attitude.

I would, however, like you to explain to all of us morons how flight time entitles you to understand business. This "experience" you speak of is sitting in an airplane like everyone else yet, you wear it as if it warrants you some distinguished badge of knowledge; when in reality, you're just another pilot that thinks he knows how to run an organization because he has "x" number of hours in an airplane and "x" number of years with the company. By your logic, the person one number ahead of you is more qualified to run the company than you are. If you are such an "expert" in the fractional business, why haven't you been in charge of anything other than a flight attendant?

 

[GSXR600]

Why is this topic turned into a family battle........let's go back to the original post pleaseeee!!...........Anyone have the latest and greatest about those training slots for september? Did they really laid off flight attendants as well?

 

[netjetwife]

All I'm saying is, a marriage with two incomes is like a plane with two engines. You lose one, you still stay in the air. Or at least you don't reach the crash site so fast. First a serious point: Those who make a professional salary are able to save for emergencies. Now a fun one: Single engine fighters are very effective. And none of the OT w h o r e s I've met had wives who lost their jobs. Their wives never had jobs to begin with. There are probably pilots not doing OT who also have stay-home wives, supporting their decision. My husband gave up OT and I doubt we're the only 1 income frac family who thinks it's the right thing to do.

I've traveled all over the world, and the only two places I've been where this weird situation (seemingly intelligent, educated women stuck in exclusively domestic roles) seems to exist are here and the Middle East, If we look at the wives of professionals, especially those in demanding occupations that require a lot of time away from the children, I think we'll see stay-home wives/moms all over the world. and it really didn't even come into being here until the fifties. Before that, working class women (and, yes, pilots are working class) They work hard but they have very highly specialized skills that took years to acquire and they are expensive to replace; thus, are more aligned with working professionals --white collar, not blue collar. were just as likely as men to work, even if married. Actually, you've got it backwards. Before WW2 it was unusual to see women in the workplace. They filled jobs left vacant when the men went to war and some of them stayed in the workplace. Then the birth control pill (1960s) enabled more to take jobs outside the home. Our increasing commercialism as a society made 2 income families a "necessity" for most, but professionals (typically higher paid) often have one parent home full time w/their children.

...I believe a working mom is a healthier role model for girls than a stay-at-homer. Both examples have value. That's why I volunteer at my daughter's school. Instilling a good work ethic is the important thing and work is work regardless of where its done or whether you get paid, or not.

And here's another thing. I've made an informal study of friends' wives--those who work versus those who stay at home all day. Those who work seem waaaaayyy happier and, well, normal, to me than those who hang around the house all day trying to invent things to occupy themselves. Informal and unscientific. It boils down to personal interests. I'm sure there are many wives at home that are busy and happy, especially mothers w/kids at home.

A home-bound wife is a luxury item, just like a Lexus or a country club membership or a big boat. If you have one, and you have to pick up every overtime shift that comes along, you get no sympathy from me.

Those paid a professional salary consider it a lifestyle choice that they can afford. My husband prefers to have me there when he is home. He doesn't consider quality family and couple time as a luxury; he sees it as necessary for a decent standard of living. Fair (professional) compensation allows pilots to choose the lifestyle that best suits their family and makes OT unnecessary in affording that personal preference.

As part of the Voluntary Measures at NJ my husband (with my vote) gave up OT and reduced his schedule from the 18 day to the 7&7 in an effort to help prevent furloughs. If we were at Flex he wouldn't work OT. It's my experience that selfish people can come up with lots of excuses to justify their behavior. A stay home spouse shouldn't be a factor in the decision. NJW

 

[netjetwife]

Sandlapper, good post and good idea on the money jar. We have a petty cash fund/jar and entertainment is budgeted accordingly during the year.

Children are usually quite empathetic and happy to support worthy causes. I think frac kids would gladly give up extras OT could buy if they were told that doing so would help keep other kids parents employed.

GSX, I think the news will be shared as soon as someone has it. In the meantime, other discussions build camaraderie.

 

[flex*wife]

Why is this topic turned into a family battle........let's go back to the original post pleaseeee!!...........Anyone have the latest and greatest about those training slots for september? Did they really laid off flight attendants as well?

While I would the opportunity to defend my lifestyle choice and point out that I am far from a luxury item, I have to agree with GSXR600 that there are more pressing matters at hand. Surely someone out there has some info that can be helpful? I noticed there was a pre-emptive strike by FR that cuts were coming, and we know they were to happen by last friday, but not a single word has been said as to exactly what was done. How's that the typical for lack of transparency?

As for the type of OT John McClain described, I don't think that's the kind that upsets most people, John. I think its when people are calling in and asking for extra duty, bidding days up to the max etc... It just kinda sucks while people are on the street to know there are people who are all about ME ME ME. Perhaps you are right and most people are intrinscially greedy and selfish, but I do know it is a concern that it is happening. And I do want to defend you for a bit John -- you are right Flexjet is an awesome place to work especially in light of the PLENTY of other aviation jobs my husband has had. But it could be better, more awesomer if you will, and the answer to that solution is all I think most are seeking. If you have a real solution that doesn't include a like it or lump it sentiment I betcha you would be surprised at how much respect you'd garner, at least from me. I'm sure that's your number one priority ;-)

I do just want to say though Dooker that when I left my career (and it was a career, not a job) to raise my kids, the last thing on my mind was whether or not it would elevate my husband's status among his peers to have the ultimate luxury item. The income hit we took forced us to make tough choices, we sold our home, moved to a smaller one and downscaled considerably. My car might be old, my clothes might not be as trendy and it's been forever since I ordered wine in a fancy restaurant but I wouldn't ever change a thing about it. Our family time is precious and we actually get to have some because when my husband is at work I have the time to do things for him so he can relax while he's home. He gets to worry more about what he and my son will do for the day then which drycleaner is on the way to the bike shop or home depot. I know how to work a lawnmower, grout a tub and fillout a Flexjet expense form. I also keep track of all his hours and let me tell you I have found $$ mistakes on his paychecks more than a few times this year. (Sidenote: If you are just leaving it up to Flexjet to make sure you get paid for your hourly OT I have some Arizona oceanfront property to sell you.) (And I'm just talking the daily over 12 stuff: He DOES NOT pick up extra days) If I had a job I wouldn't do one of these things let alone a all of them. Life is far from June Cleaver for me. But I love it and honestly feel when I look back 20 years from now I will feel I accomplished far greater things than my job, as awesome as it was, would have ever afforded me. I do some part time work, but only sporadically and more to give my husband alone time than anything else!

Perhaps it is a luxury for him to know he and our kids are my number one priority, but I dare you to name me a single man that wouldn't like for the same. (And that is NOT a diss on working Moms or families who make different choices, just the way our life has worked out.)

 

[John MClain]

Mr mclain, I did not state as a fact you were on the CAB. I assumed it based on your attitude.

I would, however, like you to explain to all of us morons how flight time entitles you to understand business. This "experience" you speak of is sitting in an airplane like everyone else yet, you wear it as if it warrants you some distinguished badge of knowledge; when in reality, you're just another pilot that thinks he knows how to run an organization because he has "x" number of hours in an airplane and "x" number of years with the company. By your logic, the person one number ahead of you is more qualified to run the company than you are. If you are such an "expert" in the fractional business, why haven't you been in charge of anything other than a flight attendant?

Ok little man, I'll bite this last time and then I'm done because you truly are the definition of a MORON, and there is no getting through to someone who is by their history on this forum so disgruntled with his current place in life. I have tried to find just one of your many posts that had at least an inkling of positivity about FlexJet, but no dice. I'll say it again, your avatar fits you absolutely perfectly.

First things first, you made an assumption about my CAB membership based on my attitude. CAB members have a specific attitude? Interesting. How many of the current members do you actually know personally? I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't name 2 of the current members if you tried, but you know enough to claim that they have an identifiable ATTITUDE. Ok then, whatever.

I never said flight time made, or in your words "entitles" me to understand business, flight time is a result of experience as an aviation professional and my 28 years has enabled me to acquire a significant amount of flight time. You make another assumption, (you like doing that don't you) that my or for that matter, anybody else's experience in aviation is just sitting in an airplane. This assumption alone is a perfect example of what I've been talking about and shows just how immature, inexperienced and moronic you really are. While i have done a significant amount of sitting in various aircraft, the fact of the matter is you don't know a damn thing about me or your chosen profession if you feel sitting in an airplane is the only way to earn a distinguished badge of knowledge. What do you suppose I was doing in addition to just sitting in an airplane during those 17 years I spent prior to coming to work for FlexJet you simple minded, spoiled, give it to me now twerp.

Face it, you are a mental midget and out of your league here. it's so funny that it's almost sad such simple minded one thought wonders can with out a doubt proclaim that the end all solution to the so called sodomizing you claim to regularly receive at FlexJet can be solved by a UNION.

Your final statement speaks volumes about your maturity level and again your obvious lack of experience other than Flex or possibly flight instruction. I have never considered myself "in charge of" flight attendants. I've always considered them as fellow crewmembers and part of a team, sometimes 10 of them and I always treated them with the respect they have earned and certainly deserved. I would suggest that some day if you should find yourself IN CHARGE of some flight attendants, you park that ego or get the coffee or crewmeals yourself.

 

[EatSleepFly]

GSX, I think the news will be shared as soon as someone has it. In the meantime, other discussions build camaraderie.

I'm with Gixxer, there are more important things to worry about than a bunch of faceless screen names building "camaraderie" (also known on flightinfo as animosity). Perhaps another thread could be started to discuss how to best raise your children. On second thought, you can have this one and maybe someone will start one about what's going on at Flexjet... although I could've sworn that's how this one started out.

 

[doh]

So you give thanks for having a job that requires two incomes. I don't get it. Just asking.

It doesn't matter what job you have if you spend more than you make. That was his point. If you want to fund a McMansion, a huge boat, a sports car, the Harley collection and two Beemers, the ol' lady better make some coin! Is it clear now?