More fallout from SWA crash - pax and rw length

[FatesPawn]

You SWA types are something else, why don't you stick to the topic. SWA ran off the runway in MDW, not AA. AA doesn't need to even be in this thread topic.

AA

Check his type ratings. He doesn't fly for SWA.

And, I have no idea why he brought up AA.

Fate.

 

[FatesPawn]

Are you done lecturing now?

It depends. When the class gets it, I'll be done. I think people are starting to understand. People need to understand - and understand clearly - that carriers do things differently and because they have a type rating in a 1900, 757, or A380 doesn't qualify them to make assumptions about a horrible accident.

If in fact it comes out that the T/R problem was the ultimate reason for the over run, I think the Feds will be modifying your performance data.

Perhaps, but I don't think so. Brakes and Spoilers can fail too and they still allow us to credit them for stopping distance. I'm not trying to argue what's going to happen or not going to happen. I'm poking my finger in the chest of people who think they can outguess the NTSB 6 days after the accident.


Fate

 

[regionaltard]

I think the biggest problem is the somewhat subjective call of what is Good, Fair, and Poor.

That's what keeps jumping out at me. If anything good is to come of this maybe airport authorities will be required to provide more timely, measurable information on runway surfaces in the future. If I'm going to be conducting an op. where pretty much everything has to go right I want to know, not hope.

 

[1BigRodeo]

We landed there 2 hours prior to the incident, and we didnt get the advertised BA either. It was worse than said.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Hey, FWIW, I *AM* giving them the benefit of the doubt.

My thinking is that something happened that delayed reverser deployment. Mechanical-induced, weather-induced, fatigue-induced...whatever. Hell I have had problems getting TRs to deploy before and it wasn't the airplane's fault, just happened to pull back a bit before I got the gate locks up and they jammed... Had to "recycle" the the deployment to get them out. No biggie. Dry runway. Plane stops great in far less than 3000' with brakes only at max weight....

I do not think the crew was careless or reckless in any form or fashion. Just unlucky.

 

[FatesPawn]

Hey, FWIW, I *AM* giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks Legacy. I know you are are on the pilot's side.

I hope lurkers that may have been reading this thread thinking "what a bunch of knuckleheads" will take a step back and wait for the NTSB findings.

Fate

 

[100-1/2]

Why are we all getting wrapped around the axle about what the weather and conditions 'were' as reported by the media. Most of the "MMQB's" here never experienced for themselves and firsthand, the rapid and continually changing manner in which these conditions occur. The best braking condition reports and conditions occur after a pass of the broom truck. As heavy as the snow was following and the primetime tempo of the operations one would be led to conclude "MMQB" that the runway was likely deteriorating in braking action and probably due for another sweep by the broomtruck(s) when this misfortune occurred. When the weather is up and down the only weather report that matters is the last one before the FAF. Those don't always make it into the METAR archives. When runways are opened and closed for snow removal, the most important BA report is the one issued with your landing clearance. That one is on tape. This one needs to go through the wash. even then, it looks like "wouldof couldof shouldof" are going to prevail. Fresh crew, first leg, newer airplane, very recent maintenance check, I too, would want to succeed at what everyone else had been doing all day/night long. As for the other [ATA] crew that went on to an alternate, who knows, fatiqued crew, end of the day, older plane and MEL'd equipment. Probably Chicago based crew uninterested in shovelling snow from their walk or digging their cars out of the employee lot. Hello Alternate/Hilton with shuttle service. Anyone else been there, done that, and got the pax grief?

As for mechanical and judgement, Only two people in the world right now know or have a firm grasp of the events in the cockpit throughout the incident. FD/CVR's are ony record channels from a portion of range of parameters possible. Initially it appears a mechanical reliability may have posed a significant contribution to the accident. We will rely on the NTSB to draw those conclusions. Contributing factors will likely include a pot pouri of crew judgement, weather, airport conditions, etc. It is sad, but the NTSB/FAA always find a way to include the crew in a mishap and would likely go along something like "failure to abort the attempted landing when a malfuntion or other adverse condition was experienced during a critical phase of flight". One where very small tolerances existed with little margin for error possible. For me, If at a split moment I believe an issue to exist surface with something like the TR's deployment at a critical moment such as rollout with soupie and crappie conditions above, I can't imagine NOTconsiderring for a moment in taking my chances with available runway over the horror of an airborn deployment of a TR while trying to go missed over West Chicago. We saw how a TR deployment turned out with a Canadian Troop transport in the 1980's.

This is a tough one and anybody that would say "they got a good handle on it and how it went wrong" is simply an idiot.

As for the media and your passengers, Have compassion. The media is sick and afflicted and the only fault of the flying public is how much weight they give the information oozing from the media's sores.

I have always succeeded with the rubberband theory and discription of winding up for takeoff and landing. AND I always remind my passengers to use the lav while in cruise for reduction of aircraft weight in preparation for landing. The FA's appreciate not having to chase the pax from the lavs just before landing. If that doesn't work, I tell'em "Its' okay, I am a limo driver" or "but I did stay at a holiday inn express."

Details about a funtion of physics already misunderstood simply confuses the matter and leads to more irrelevan details or questions. I told a lady just this morning: "Yeah, that Wolf Blitzer, what a great guy. I remember when he used to bag my groceries." "Bob, who?" "Oh, Arnott? You say." "He had a tough time learning to fly. I once helped him study for his third try at a Private Pilot License. I heard he finally got his license recently?" "Good for him. Always liked the chap. Bit of a boozer though as I recollect."

100-1/2

 

[knowlimits]

My understanding of the 737, though, is that the reversers can unlock at weight on the main wheels, but the engine will not go into reverse until nose wheel touchdown. The RA 10 thing is another safety thing built in for reverser unlock, kind of a back up. But the WOW is still required to get them unlocked.

They will unlock and deploy at RA<10 ft. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. LAS, 1997, 25L, about 7pm. AWA737-300

Probably won't do it again, though. Makes for a firm touchdown.