More drama? 2nd run at Frontier?

[CapnVegetto]

One day, someone's likely to dig up that post and repeatedly dangle it about for all to see. Just sayin.

Let them, see if I care. Right now I have 31 years left and am a junior FO. If I were a senior captain living in base I'd be singing a different tune. Right now, though, that is what I think.

 

[USMC319]

F9 has already said they are willing to sell off slots that they have at DCA/LGA. Why buy the whole cow when you can just buy a glass of milk for a fraction of the price?

There is a LGA/DCA slot auction that ends around Thanksgiving. If B6 doesnt get some good slots then I say they will look to F9 for some

Not the same slots. RAH owns a bunch of Commuter slots that they lease to LCC, if B6 wants them they will have to wait to see if LCC rejects them. Also not sure what restrictions are on Commuter slots. Probably limited on seats to less than aircraft that B6 operates. Frontier slots aren't for sale and they will be bidding on additional slots at the auction right there with ya.

 

[SWA/FO]

What an a$$clown, Bedford was on "undercover Boss" last year.

 

[Flyby1206]

Not the same slots. RAH owns a bunch of Commuter slots that they lease to LCC, if B6 wants them they will have to wait to see if LCC rejects them. Also not sure what restrictions are on Commuter slots. Probably limited on seats to less than aircraft that B6 operates. Frontier slots aren't for sale and they will be bidding on additional slots at the auction right there with ya.

Ahh, I remember reading about those slots. I think USAir has the right of first refusal as well, meaning they can override the sale and buy them back or something.

I thought F9 had some existing slots of their own certificate in LGA/DCA that were being used for A320 type flying that could be sold off.

 

[USMC319]

Ahh, I remember reading about those slots. I think USAir has the right of first refusal as well, meaning they can override the sale and buy them back or something.

I thought F9 had some existing slots of their own certificate in LGA/DCA that were being used for A320 type flying that could be sold off.

Yes. F9 has several slots that they intend to keep and they are trying to get more just like everybody else. I suppose the slots could be sold in some fashion or be considered part of their assets in any kind of M/A activity that may happen in the future.

It is my opinion (and RAH's assertion to Wall Street) that Bedford does not want to sell Frontier completely. He just wants to have a financial partner that will inject the proper amount of capital and allow RAH to become a minority owner so that he can run the airline independantly from his regional (FFD) group. Frontier's Airbus operation is profitable. The little airplanes that he operated under Frontier's brand absolutely destroyed Frontier's CASM and made it a money losing deal. I think that he wants a "re do" and operate Frontier as a successful stand alone, away from his other CPA entities. Now, if the price was right, I'm sure he would have to consider selling Frontier outright, its his fiduciary duty to the shareholders to investigate those kinds of things, but thats neither his goal nor his ambition. Lots of things going on behind the scenes lately to support that theory. In fact if you happen to see a Frontier pilot walking down the concourse, you might notice a little bounce in his or her step going forward.

 

[ALGFLYR]

In fact if you happen to see a Frontier pilot walking down the concourse, you might notice a little bounce in his or her step going forward.

That "bounce" may be due to the fact that BB doesn't belive in lubrication when he saw the said pilot bend over to pick something up off the floor...

 

[Grey Ghost]

Yes. F9 has several slots that they intend to keep and they are trying to get more just like everybody else. I suppose the slots could be sold in some fashion or be considered part of their assets in any kind of M/A activity that may happen in the future.

It is my opinion (and RAH's assertion to Wall Street) that Bedford does not want to sell Frontier completely. He just wants to have a financial partner that will inject the proper amount of capital and allow RAH to become a minority owner so that he can run the airline independantly from his regional (FFD) group. Frontier's Airbus operation is profitable. The little airplanes that he operated under Frontier's brand absolutely destroyed Frontier's CASM and made it a money losing deal. I think that he wants a "re do" and operate Frontier as a successful stand alone, away from his other CPA entities. Now, if the price was right, I'm sure he would have to consider selling Frontier outright, its his fiduciary duty to the shareholders to investigate those kinds of things, but thats neither his goal nor his ambition. Lots of things going on behind the scenes lately to support that theory. In fact if you happen to see a Frontier pilot walking down the concourse, you might notice a little bounce in his or her step going forward.

Take another big swig of that kool-aid, buddy!!!! The Reverand serves it Ice Cold this time of year!!! I love how you think he has one ounce of decency to him and has your best interests in mind! Just ask the 2,000 pilots he's been screwing for the last decade! You guys are high on dope if you think he cares what happens to you or anyone else! :nuts:

 

[BeachBummer]

According to B6 Scope RAH can only fly up to 10% of B6 ASM. That won't be very many 190's

Did you even read the 5 documents!?!? B6, jetblue pilots have no scope... The language clearly states that 10% is nothing more than a trigger for a SLI. When we say no we don't want a SLI with RAH your managment will tell you that since you turned it down they can have more than 10%. As well, if you have signed the new adendem you will not be able to join a class action law suit with the rest of the pilots to fight for your flying because well... you signed that right away. Please don't say we have scope.

JETBLUE PILOTS HAVE NO SCOPE.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Yes. F9 has several slots that they intend to keep and they are trying to get more just like everybody else. I suppose the slots could be sold in some fashion or be considered part of their assets in any kind of M/A activity that may happen in the future.

It is my opinion (and RAH's assertion to Wall Street) that Bedford does not want to sell Frontier completely. He just wants to have a financial partner that will inject the proper amount of capital and allow RAH to become a minority owner so that he can run the airline independantly from his regional (FFD) group. Frontier's Airbus operation is profitable. The little airplanes that he operated under Frontier's brand absolutely destroyed Frontier's CASM and made it a money losing deal. I think that he wants a "re do" and operate Frontier as a successful stand alone, away from his other CPA entities. Now, if the price was right, I'm sure he would have to consider selling Frontier outright, its his fiduciary duty to the shareholders to investigate those kinds of things, but thats neither his goal nor his ambition. Lots of things going on behind the scenes lately to support that theory. In fact if you happen to see a Frontier pilot walking down the concourse, you might notice a little bounce in his or her step going forward.

Sorry but he can't have his cake and eat it too. People are not just dumping money into airlines like they use too. Investment firms are realizing that you can't make money in this business no matter what especially with some ego maniac in the CEO seat! Replace BB and we'll talk, otherwise, not gonna happen, BB must have bought some of our Kool-Aid at that auction, and he's serving it up to you F9 guys in Super Big Gulp cups...you may want to listen to the guys that have worked for him for a while, they've been telling you "Don't trust him" and you guys just keep on ignoring them!

Maybe SW knew what they were doing, run the price up, let him get over his head and run it into the ground, then move in to pick up the pieces...
Nah, as many have said here before, SW has no idea what they are doing, I don't understand how they are still in business, Blah,Blah, Blah!

Good Luck, you guys are gonna need it!

KBB

 

[USMC319]

Don't worry gang. The F9 pilots have no illusion that BB is doing this out of the pure kindness of his heart. His agenda just happens to be aligned with the Frontier group at this time. The IBT blew their chance to embrace the F9 pilots when they temporarily and successfully stole their seniority. That is what made it impossible for us to come together. Now Frontier has to go with the lesser of the 2 evils which is BB if you can even believe it! Who could be worse to align with...the IBT and their seniority stealing minions. Sorry folks. That's the bed you made.

As far as you business minded ERAU grads with the conspiracy theory about SWA running up the price of F9, go do some research and find out that you are uninformed and almost always wrong. Facts generally get in the way of most on here, and outside of your degree in learning to fly airplanes, there is some effort required to come up with an informed position before you spew inaccuracies on a public forum.

 

[F9 Driver]

there is some effort required to come up with an informed position before you spew inaccuracies on a public forum.

If only!

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Don't worry gang. The F9 pilots have no illusion that BB is doing this out of the pure kindness of his heart. His agenda just happens to be aligned with the Frontier group at this time. The IBT blew their chance to embrace the F9 pilots when they temporarily and successfully stole their seniority. That is what made it impossible for us to come together. Now Frontier has to go with the lesser of the 2 evils which is BB if you can even believe it! Who could be worse to align with...the IBT and their seniority stealing minions. Sorry folks. That's the bed you made.

You sound like the East/West Guys.... Let me know how it works out for you!

KBB

 

[OpenClimb]

You sound like the East/West Guys.... Let me know how it works out for you!

KBB

Yah. It'd be just like the East/West deal if MESA had purchased America West and some lunatic arbitrator put a thousand guys from Mesa ahead of the America West pilots.

Other than that, it's exactly the same.

 

[ChinaClipper]

WN got out foxed at the auction by the sloped-forehead, cornfield Indianapolis Mafia. Gary sez Better to blame FAPA as the Red Herring...its MUCH better than admitting to a beat-down by a Regional Airline.....strange world out there....

 

[waveflyer]

Really?
Good try dude

 

[FlyByNight1]

WN got out foxed at the auction by the sloped-forehead, cornfield Indianapolis Mafia. Gary sez Better to blame FAPA as the Red Herring...its MUCH better than admitting to a beat-down by a Regional Airline.....strange world out there....

let me get this straight... WN drives price up, and backs out. Then opens service on profitable F9 routes after seeing the numbers. Republic over pays and now looks to sell after big losses. Remind me again who took the beat down. No ill will here for F9, good group of guys, good luck to them.

 

[F9 Driver]

let me get this straight... WN drives price up, and backs out. Then opens service on profitable F9 routes after seeing the numbers. Republic over pays and now looks to sell after big losses. Remind me again who took the beat down. No ill will here for F9, good group of guys, good luck to them.

Yup. RAH got F9 for 17.5 cents on the dollar after WN drove the price up.

I'm not sure if you've ever looked around the DOT's website, but there are much easier ways to determine if a carrier's routes are profitable (Form 41) than to trot 50 or so people (lawyers, guns, and money) to NYC for a "sham" auction.

WN wanted to buy F9. F9 got too expensive and the conditions of the Frontier Holdings' plan of restructuring got too onerous - not to mention that the WN/F9 deal may not have passed the HSR sniff test - and they bailed. Plain and simple. No beat down issued. Lots of learning took place, and was put to use with the FL purchase - out of bankruptcy.

Good luck to us all.

 

[SB Diver]

We will probably never really know who did the outsmarting, but does it really matter now? We can only speculate. What we have now is just what we have now. Good luck to all the employees of F9!

 

[GuppyWN]

F9 Driver,

Someone stole your login and just made a post about Southwest that wasn't critical.

Gup

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Announcement from today...

Hey F9 guys,
How many of those Denver and Mexico destinations do you guys serve?

KBB


Southwest Airlines on Sunday announced new service coming next spring for it and subsidiary AirTran Airways, with the big changes coming on AirTran routes to Mexico.

Bob Jordan, Southwest EVP and AirTran president, said AirTran is applying for permission to fly from San Antonio to Mexico City and Cancun in May and from Orange County/John Wayne Airport to Cabo San Lucas and Mexico City in June.

With AirTran eventually to be folded into Southwest, anything AirTran today could become Southwest tomorrow, meaning 2012, 2013 or 2014.

Also, Jordan reiterated on a conference call Sunday that the two carriers intend to begin code-sharing and connections in the first half of 2012, meaning that Southwest passengers hypothetically may be able to connect to the AirTran routes to Mexico. There's just no date set for the start-up of the connecting service.

Keep reading for the entire Southwest/AirTran press release.

Southwest Airlines and AirTran Airways Announce Summer Flight Schedules

Southwest Airlines Adds New Nonstop Routes and AirTran Airways Announces Plans to Serve New International Destinations and Routes

Download image DALLAS, Nov. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) and its wholly owned subsidiary AirTran Airways announced today new destinations and nonstop routes as they extend their flight schedules for reservations from June 3, 2012, through Aug. 10, 2012 (some flights begin as early as May 24, 2012). Southwest announced new Houston nonstop service and AirTran will add nonstop service between Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood and San Juan, Puerto Rico, as well as new Denver nonstop routes.

In addition, AirTran announced plans to expand its international presence with four new nonstop routes to Mexico: San Antonio to Cancun and Mexico City beginning May 2012, and Orange County, Calif. to Cabo San Lucas and Mexico City beginning June 2012. This service is subject to government approval and is not yet for sale. Specific frequencies and fares for these international routes will be announced once the appropriate approvals are received. AirTran does not currently serve Orange County, so the future introduction of AirTran service to these markets is a direct benefit of Southwest's acquisition of AirTran.

To celebrate AirTran's Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood to San Juan service, the carriers launched a fare sale today with fares as low as $69 one-way. Customers must book travel by Nov. 27, 2011, in order to take advantage of these low fares (see Additional Fare Rules below). To book flights, visit: www.southwest.com or www.airtran.com.

A quick view of the new service is listed below.

AirTran new service beginning May 24, 2012 (open for sale today):

•Two daily roundtrip flights between Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood and San Juan


AirTran new service beginning June 3, 2012 (open for sale today):

•One daily roundtrip flight between Denver and Akron-Canton
•One daily roundtrip flight between Denver and Dayton
•Two daily roundtrip flights between Denver and New York LaGuardia
•Two daily roundtrip flights between Baltimore/Washington and Los Angeles
•One daily roundtrip flight between Baltimore/Washington and New Orleans
•Two daily roundtrip flights between Baltimore/Washington and Seattle
•One daily roundtrip flight between Baltimore/Washington and San Francisco


Southwest new service beginning June 3, 2012 (open for sale today):

•One daily roundtrip flight between Houston Hobby and Raleigh-Durham
•One daily roundtrip flight between Houston Hobby and Kansas City
•One daily roundtrip flight between Houston Hobby and Seattle
•One daily roundtrip flight between Chicago Midway and Oklahoma City


"We have been very encouraged by the success of AirTran's existing international service and we look forward to building upon that success," said Bob Jordan, Southwest Airlines Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer and AirTran Airways President. "Today's announcement of AirTran's new domestic service and planned international service in several markets offers Customers even more options when traveling both in the U.S. and abroad, and is a terrific demonstration of the benefits Southwest's acquisition of AirTran brings Customers."

"We continue to set the stage for long-term growth by aligning our current networks to maximize what we each do best. The next step, which we anticipate will happen in the first half of next year, will be to connect these two strong networks to offer our collective passengers lower fares on more flights, which we believe will greatly benefit consumers and create significant revenue potential for Southwest.