More cuts coming at Netjets????

[jonjuan]

Since the Gen brought it up, I have to ask. Does Netjets reimburse tips for PIC (papers, ice, coffee) delivery, fuel and baggage handling? Flex does not. The owner tips the line guys for the bags and we just get PIC. We don't tip the fueler either. We only tip for lav service. Airport standby doesn't get a meal, but if we are flying, we get catered. There isn't any way around that if you want to keep the airplane moving. I'm not sure you get that General, but it is true.

What are your meals like? Many choices? Does the menu have pics?

 

[glasspilot]

So if you show up at 1100 am for a trip at noon, fly from say, MDW to STL (1 hour? 45 min?) and then put the plane to bed before you go to the hotel, you get catered a crew meal?

 

[doh]

We don't order our food, it just shows up. I'm not sure what duty time rules apply as to when you get food. All I can tell you on that score is that we don't always get food automatically and I haven't lost weight since I got here. Now what about your tips and what you get reimbursed for?

 

[Pervis]

So if you show up at 1100 am for a trip at noon, fly from say, MDW to STL (1 hour? 45 min?) and then put the plane to bed before you go to the hotel, you get catered a crew meal?

We are authorized 4 meals per day any time we are scheduled or TNTV, Hot Stby, or any 91/91K/135 flight. It doesn't matter how many. We don't get catered food when on duty at the hotel. Most people tend to order only two meals per day, as most hotels provide free breakfast with our contracted rate. When we have very early show times, this doesn't work, so many order three. I doubt very many order 4 per day.

I have yet to see us fly one leg and put the jet to bed unless we are flipping the clock and do so for rest. This my sound excessive, but many times we must combine several meals to make one due to quality, quantity, or dietary restrictions/limitations our set menu system won't address.

Even sitting Hot Spare dosn't mean we aren't tagged for an asap coast to coast trip. We are to be ready to depart from the hotel within 30 minutes of call from hotel duty, and be prepared to scoot as soon as practical if sitting at the FBO. Fortunately, NJA agrees fed crews are safer. It's also cheaper than telling an owner his crew has to go eat first.

 

[Willy21]

Yes, you get a meal going from MDW to STL, but it is very rare that you get to put the airplane to bed when you get to STL. That type of a trip is either preceded by hot spare or standby at MDW and/or hot spare/standby at STL. The company has allowed people in the past to go out and get food but just like any other operation the few ruin it for the whole. So the companies answer is to keep the crew at the airport with the airplane. This is one of the differences between where you and I work.

Believe me, I would rather go and find something to eat besides the crewfood menu. It has some very good choices, but not what I want to eat tour after tour for months on end.

 

[fischman]

General,

Your "friend" at NetJets has given you a very skewed view of what life is really like here. If your "friend" is in fact tipping himself for getting coffee, ice, and papers he is a fool in my opinion. I simply am not willing to risk a $130,000 a year job for a $5 tip. That is just stupid. Your mentor is wise to tell you to stop commenting on us. You really don't have a clue about us and you look like a jackass.

Can we tip for that? Yes. Is it intended to tip yourself? No.

The CBA is not going to be touched. End of discussion. That means crew food will continue until the current CBA is amended. That means that if we are on flight duty for 10 minutes, we can order up to 4 crew meals. Love it, or hate it. Be jealous of it (which it seems you are). Get over it. It is our contractual right.

 

[fischman]

That is unfortunate for the pilots, since the prior CEO was very pro-pilot.

This is proof you have no clue. Mr. Santulli was far from pro-pilot. Did you know we almost struck in 2005?

 

[jppt2000]

Thanks for bringing me back. That's great you go to TEX. (Telluride) The funny part is when I see your plane taxiing in JFK trying to get to TEX, and still is number 56 for takeoff. You can't force an owner to go to TEB when he wants JFK. That is the way it goes. And, you get to fly airlines on the front and end of each tour. That must be great for you.

There are some fundamental problems with your company, and your new CEO will address those. Things that you liked, will be shed. I know you have a contract, but a lot of that will be re-examined, and your union will meet with your new CEO and try to avoid further furloughs by giving away goodies. It will happen. If not, more people will probably be let go. It happens all the time in the airlines. You are not immune to this. It will be a harsh lesson, but one you will learn unfortunately.

As far as your fun "tips", it is something that is both troubling and FANTASTIC at the same time. I am sure your new CEO is looking at that. Did I say embezzlement? I think you did. I never stated that, just something my friends there have brought up that is a perk. Is that a freudilan slip from you? Watch it, that may be how you actually think of it. It is great if you can tip yourself for getting papers from the FBO and bringing them to the plane. I wish I could do that if it is true.


Have fun, and I will monitor this periodically and see if you want me to debate some more. Good luck with everything!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Would you tell us all another story about your adventures over the pond?

 

[imacdog]

I don't think General Obvious is jealous of our crew meals because we don't have pictures on the menu.

 

[fischman]

Who came up with the 300 pilots retire with 3 years full pay and retirement scheme? That is one HUGE mistake in the eyes of WB, and could be one reason Santulli left, leading the way for your current CEO with cost cutting ideas.

I didn't know you knew Mr. Buffet? How many other people you never met do like like to speak for? :nuts:

And to answer your question, the Voluntary Measures were a joint project between NJASAP and NetJets. It is too bad NetJets no longer believes in it. At least we were able to help the 495 get 6 more months. :beer:

And now that you have brought up how you get catered, can you bring up how you get paid extra to: get papers, clean the toilet, take bags out of your plane, etc? You normally can tip the FBO guys, but if you do it yourself, then you tip yourself. Sounds GREAT, except WB probably thinks that is ridiculous, and I bet the new CEO does too. Do you tip yourself for walkarounds? Maybe I should do that too. Do FLOPS or Flex guys do that too? I know you have to tip a lot of line guys to get things done for your pax, but tipping yourself for getting papers or cleaning with a vaccum just seems "interesting." Hey, I wish we had that at the airlines!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Catering is an operational necessity for our schedule, and a right per the CBA. It is far cheaper and more safe for the company to make sure we are fed.

As for the tips, we are allowed to tip for services above and beyond what is required. For example, Signature is not required to clean out airplanes. If are time constrained, or our normal cleaning won't do, we can request a "Q-cart" and line service will clean the airplane for us. This is an example of them doing something not required and a tip would be appropriate. How much the tip is would depend on the condition of the airplane before and after the service. Sometimes $5, Sometimes $10. Lav service in the XL? $10. Lav service in the Ultra? $20. Fuel, oil, windshield? $5. By the way, I can't remember the last time I saw one of our guys NOT tip out for coffee, ice and papers.

Why does NetJets allow us to drop all this coin? Simple. when a NetJets plane and a competitor's plane pull up to the ramp at the same time, we want line service to run to our plane first. They know we are going to throw money around. I probably drop $15 to $20 a stop. imp:

 

[fischman]

I don't think General Obvious is jealous of our crew meals because we don't have pictures on the menu.

No kidding huh? I think if we could come up with some pics, guys wouldn't be jealous. It isn't that great, and I honestly only order what is required. I would rather spend my per diem and get a good meal at a restaurant or hotel and eat like a normal person. I get tired of balancing my food on my knee hoping I don't spill it on the circuit breaker panel.

Sometimes you hit a home run and get a good meal, but overall the food isn't great guys.

 

[glasspilot]

I hate to align with the "General" (and I don't generalee)...but;

The Q-Cart is not some special perk for NJA alone. We get that too. I never for Paper Ice or Coffee. I don't tip for a lav either as there is a $60+ fee to cover that.

Having said that, if the ramp is busy and my time is tight I will throw cash at the problem to get what I need. What that means is you end up spending 50K a year to get a perceived "head of the line" while I simply pay when needed, say $500 per year, to get the job done.

Further, I get a crew meal when it's needed, but that has been discussed before. I order around 3 per year. You being on duty for 10 minutes equals an entitlement to 4 crew meals??? Okay...if you say so. Hope that works out for ya. I'll bet NJAOwner would love to discuss that. (Pssst....hey Owner, you should try a company where sanity exists!)

 

[General Lee]

This is proof you have no clue. Mr. Santulli was far from pro-pilot. Did you know we almost struck in 2005?

Thanks again for bringing me back into this topic. Your old CEO, compared to your new one, was VERY PRO-PILOT. Can you explain the 300 retirements with 3 years pay and benefits? That would NEVER happen in the real world, unless you were a CEO being let go by the board. That is FANTASTIC, but unrealistic. Good for you guys! Now, watch it with the new guy, since I doubt he will be as NICE.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I hate to align with the "General" (and I don't generalee)...but;

The Q-Cart is not some special perk for NJA alone. We get that too. I never for Paper Ice or Coffee. I don't tip for a lav either as there is a $60+ fee to cover that.

Having said that, if the ramp is busy and my time is tight I will throw cash at the problem to get what I need. What that means is you end up spending 50K a year to get a perceived "head of the line" while I simply pay when needed, say $500 per year, to get the job done.

Further, I get a crew meal when it's needed, but that has been discussed before. I order around 3 per year. You being on duty for 10 minutes equals an entitlement to 4 crew meals??? Okay...if you say so. Hope that works out for ya. I'll bet NJAOwner would love to discuss that. (Pssst....hey Owner, you should try a company where sanity exists!)

That is great, and throwing cash at rampers to expedite your departure is smart. You need to get the owner out of there ASAP. But, when someone pockets extra cash "to cover a car payment PER tour", that sounds a bit excessive, and FANTASTIC. Again, this is what was told to me by 2 NJA friends, and I told them that was unbelievable. So, is it true or not????? Sounds FANTASTIC. And, during our next contract negotiations, I want to bring up the part where you guys get 4 crew meals per day if on duty. All we get is a crew meal if the flight is scheduled over 5:30. I want 4 meals, plus an ice cream sundae, with whip creams and a cherry.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[fischman]

I hate to align with the "General" (and I don't generalee)...but;

The Q-Cart is not some special perk for NJA alone. We get that too. I never for Paper Ice or Coffee. I don't tip for a lav either as there is a $60+ fee to cover that. Usually lavs are free for us in major FBO chains. So are GPU's

Having said that, if the ramp is busy and my time is tight I will throw cash at the problem to get what I need. What that means is you end up spending 50K a year to get a perceived "head of the line" while I simply pay when needed, say $500 per year, to get the job done. $50K a year? No where close. MAYBE a couple thousand a year.

Further, I get a crew meal when it's needed, but that has been discussed before. I order around 3 per year. You being on duty for 10 minutes equals an entitlement to 4 crew meals??? Okay...if you say so. Hope that works out for ya. I'll bet NJAOwner would love to discuss that. (Pssst....hey Owner, you should try a company where sanity exists!)

The point of NetJets paying for the tips is that we get the service before you. We hope the ramp realizes who is throwing money around. I'm not saying we get different service, and I'm not saying that is what always happens, but that is the point.

I'm just saying that crew meals are a negotiated benefit in the CBA. If we go on flight asset, we get food. It is in section 20.7 of our CBA if you want to read it for yourself. You can find it on www.njasap.com.

Personally I find it insane allowing a crew to fly hungry. I sleep well knowing that the guy sitting next to me isn't thinking about his belly. Tell me honestly, how many times did you fly hungry last year? 0 for me. How many times did you fly tired? 0 for me. How many times did you wait for a GPU? 0 for me. How many times did you...

 

[fischman]

That is great, and throwing cash at rampers to expedite your departure is smart. You need to get the owner out of there ASAP. But, when someone pockets extra cash "to cover a car payment PER tour", that sounds a bit excessive, and FANTASTIC. Again, this is what was told to me by 2 NJA friends, and I told them that was unbelievable. So, is it true or not????? Sounds FANTASTIC.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Again, if your friends are doing that they are FOOLS. Honestly, would you risk a $130,000 a year job for a couple of tips?

I don't pad my expense reports. What I expense is what I spend in order to get the job done. Then again, I'm not a fool.

 

[fischman]

Thanks again for bringing me back into this topic. Your old CEO, compared to your new one, was VERY PRO-PILOT. Can you explain the 300 retirements with 3 years pay and benefits? That would NEVER happen in the real world, unless you were a CEO being let go by the board. That is FANTASTIC, but unrealistic. Good for you guys! Now, watch it with the new guy, since I doubt he will be as NICE.


Bye Bye---General Lee

That's funny.

Listen to your mentor. Seriously. You don't have a clue what you are writing. You don't understand the history. Ask ANYONE who was here before 2005.

I can explain the early outs. Mr. Santulli stated that if he had to let 1 person go, then he would have failed. It was about HIS ego, not us. The Voluntary Measures were a brilliant LOA negotiated by NJASAP leaders to help pilots. For 6 months it worked.

No one is denying that Mr. Sokol is having to make unpopular hard decisions that are seriously impacting families. He is. But to say that he is pilot unfriendly compared to his predecessor is laughable.

 

[FLYLOW22]

........

Thanks for bringing me back. That's great you go to TEX. (Telluride) The funny part is when I see your plane taxiing in JFK trying to get to TEX, and still is number 56 for takeoff. You can't force an owner to go to TEB when he wants JFK. That is the way it goes. And, you get to fly airlines on the front and end of each tour. That must be great for you.

I've been to JFK twice in 8 years here. I think you summed up why our Owners choose NOT to frequent JFK. Too congested and too far away from most places most our people need to be most of the time. Most who are "in the know" don't go to JFK... I wouldn't wish that on my greatest enemy to call that place my base. TEB is the place to be in the NY area. True, we do frequent LGA, EWR and JFK... but we also service MMU, FRG, HPN and many others for that matter. Airlines up there mostly occur out of EWR or HPN. Both are not fun at all.

There are some fundamental problems with your company, and your new CEO will address those. Things that you liked, will be shed. I know you have a contract, but a lot of that will be re-examined, and your union will meet with your new CEO and try to avoid further furloughs by giving away goodies. It will happen. If not, more people will probably be let go. It happens all the time in the airlines. You are not immune to this. It will be a harsh lesson, but one you will learn unfortunately.

Delta is perfect. We know. Let's compare notes in 5 years... 10... 20. I'm comfortable with my situation here. How many more mergers can your side endure?

As far as your fun "tips", it is something that is both troubling and FANTASTIC at the same time. I am sure your new CEO is looking at that. Did I say embezzlement? I think you did. I never stated that, just something my friends there have brought up that is a perk. Is that a freudilan slip from you? Watch it, that may be how you actually think of it. It is great if you can tip yourself for getting papers from the FBO and bringing them to the plane. I wish I could do that if it is true.

I can't follow where you are going with this. The company sets the policy. We follow the policy. You seem to know something different???

Have fun, and I will monitor this periodically and see if you want me to debate some more. Good luck with everything!

HA! I would expect nothing less.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[brokeflyer]

this general guy seems to have a lot to learn about real aviation.

sad, people like that make the rest of us look like fcking idiots. These are the type of people I love to get in the right seat. It turns out to very educational for them.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Thanks again for bringing me back into this topic. Your old CEO, compared to your new one, was VERY PRO-PILOT. Can you explain the 300 retirements with 3 years pay and benefits? That would NEVER happen in the real world, unless you were a CEO being let go by the board. That is FANTASTIC, but unrealistic. Good for you guys! Now, watch it with the new guy, since I doubt he will be as NICE.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Union idea.