More Competition in Milwaukee for Midwest

[CitationLover]

I'm not sure why Citationluvr keeps saying Skyway was doomed no matter what. I have a good source that said the SYX operating certificate would have been used to fly Ejets for AAI. Whether it would have been SYX or Airtran pilots flying them who knows...
Now that SYX is not around to subsidize Timmy's poor decisions (there have been a shameful number of them), how will Midex make a profit? For years SYX has helped 'carry' the mainline operation, who will pay now? NWA? TPG? I think not.
-TC

are you high? who is your good source?

the SYX op certificate is still there. come buy it.

 

[FlyWolf]

I'm not sure why Citationluvr keeps saying Skyway was doomed no matter what. I have a good source that said the SYX operating certificate would have been used to fly Ejets for AAI. Whether it would have been SYX or Airtran pilots flying them who knows...
Now that SYX is not around to subsidize Timmy's poor decisions (there have been a shameful number of them), how will Midex make a profit? For years SYX has helped 'carry' the mainline operation, who will pay now? NWA? TPG? I think not.
-TC

Obviously you don't know anything about the history of Midwest or Skyway (even if you worked here once), I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Thunderchief]

are you high? who is your good source?

the SYX op certificate is still there. come buy it.

I knew you would ask me that, my source is deep in both organizations... maybe my source is more than one person...maybe it's just my intuition?
A good source would never be revealed, especially on a forum...nice try.

You seem to know so much, you tell me what they're going to do with the certificate.

Who is YOUR source? Or are you just shooting off your mouth? Of course a real good source could never be revealed

Do you have a inkling of what it means to be sold to a 'private investor'? The squeezing of the 'margins', that's what your investor will do. The 'investor' put up WAY too much money in todays climate to write it off. Your investor paid for MEH at $61/barrel, not todays $91+... I don't know what will happen, nor does anyone here. That includes those of us that sit on the 'board'...

You have said many times SlowtationLuvr that Skyway was 'doomed' anyway in numerous posts. I ask you that you think of the pilots that currently work there of how you cavalierly write them off as if they are nothing but a 'doomed' airline. You have no clue of the past financials of Skyway in their subsidy of Midwest, few people do because Skyway is a wholly owned company and can be reported 'imaginatively' in financial reports or not at all....Skyway people with dreams, families....Shame on you. I digress.

My question remains... How will Midwest replace that income lost by Skyway? Per departure fees with Skywest? Ask Delta how that is working...Any major airline that has per departure fee based regional flying for that matter. The 50 seat business model does not work in this financial climate. Period.

Every airline from the almighty LUV to the little MEH are trying to boost the REVENUE side of financials even in a unstable economy, why? Because there is no way to cut the COST side appreciatively to make enough of a difference to offset the rise in fuel.

Enlighten me, airway plug lover....
-TC

 

[Thunderchief]

Obviously you don't know anything about the history of Midwest or Skyway (even if you worked here once), I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

I repect your (and Citationlvr's) opinion. Please enlighten my in my error in judgement. Are you saying SYX hastn't helped carry the burden?

-TC

 

[CitationLover]

i have worked in the corporate world and know how it operates. it also is prudent to list your sources (you know footnoting, etc.) that real reporters use.

but hey if you think a midwest connect (96.4 million in revenue) supports midwest airlines (491.8 million in revenue) then sobeit. who am i to argue with such stupidity. i take it eagle supports AMR. piedmont and psa supports US Airways.

all figures from the 2006 annual report.

EAS subsidies are:
Escanaba - 908,903
Iron Mtn - 602,761
Ironwood - 409,242
Manistee - 776,051

so without uncle sam midwest connect is lower by $2.7 million.

and no i am not writing them off cavalierly, it is the reality of the situation that aai would have done what tpg did. but alas you can wax nostalgic all you want, the REALITY is that they are shutting down and the pilots at Midwest Airlines will do everything in their power to help their Skyway brethren.

 

[Thunderchief]

i have worked in the corporate world and know how it operates. it also is prudent to list your sources (you know footnoting, etc.) that real reporters use.

but hey if you think a midwest connect (96.4 million in revenue) supports midwest airlines (491.8 million in revenue) then sobeit. who am i to argue with such stupidity. i take it eagle supports AMR. piedmont and psa supports US Airways.

all figures from the 2006 annual report.

EAS subsidies are:
Escanaba - 908,903
Iron Mtn - 602,761
Ironwood - 409,242
Manistee - 776,051

so without uncle sam midwest connect is lower by $2.7 million.

and no i am not writing them off cavalierly, it is the reality of the situation that aai would have done what tpg did. but alas you can wax nostalgic all you want, the REALITY is that they are shutting down and the pilots at Midwest Airlines will do everything in their power to help their Skyway brethren.

Again I don't agree with your opinion that AAI was going to shut down SYX. If we could sit over a beer I could say more. Meet at the Landmark?

My point exactly, take away the 96 mil. Subtract 96 mil from MEH's 2006 income. The point I am making it is very easy to SKEW the loss or gain of a wholly owned subsidiary. Quote me please the ACTUAL money used by MEH to operate SYX IN 2006? WELL? That number (IF you could find it) will be much less than the pay per departure going forward w Skywest. There is a difference between 'supporting' and subsidizing... never mind but please MAKE NO MISTAKE, I HOPE MIDEX SURVIVES AND THRIVES IN THE FUTURE...WE ARE ALL BROTHERS! I just took offence to the Skyway slander, forgive me.

Have you ever heard of confidentiality agreements, old corporate pro that you are I am sure...

By the way your EAS numbers don't mean much without an assoiciated cost per city, but you're an old pro...

I wish I could say more!

-TC

 

[FlyWolf]

I repect your (and Citationlvr's) opinion. Please enlighten my in my error in judgement. Are you saying SYX hastn't helped carry the burden?

-TC

TC, forgive my previous post, I just get frustrated with all the slamming we get here at Midwest. I totally understand the Skyway pilot frustration with the whole situation.

We worked hard to make Midwest interview and hire as many Skyway guys as possible and we are working hard now with our MEC to help all our brothers and sisters at Skyway.

I wish you the best at Airtran and also to all the Skyway pilots, I understand that a big % found jobs already through the ALPA job fair.

Cheers.

 

[deadstick]

My point exactly, take away the 96 mil. Subtract 96 mil from MEH's 2006 income. The point I am making it is very easy to SKEW the loss or gain of a wholly owned subsidiary. Quote me please the ACTUAL money used by MEH to operate SYX IN 2006? WELL? That number (IF you could find it) will be much less than the pay per departure going forward w Skywest.

It's the funny math of the last 6 months that really gets me. Skyway was a "loss" because it paid for all the ground equipment to get Skywest rolling. Skyway had a staffing problem because many people saw the light and moved on, but MEH had not allowed Skyway to keep the training system filled with pilots. Skyway is on-time numbers are low because they are always waiting for connects or rampers due to low staffing numbers. Skyway is had mx delays because the mx staff was dwendled to such a low number that contract mx had to be hired. Why did it get so low? Skywest moved in and offered them better paying jobs while MEH didn't do anything to keep them. At the same time, MEH would not take any Skyway pilots in the hiring pool to "stop the bleeding." Midwest kept hiring off the street and the Skyway pilots kept losing seniority sitting in the pool. A vicious cycle of because of freezing hiring at Skyway, then not hiring Skyway pilots out of the pool because they were too short staffed.

It's because Midwest is managed by corporate flight managers and not airline managers. They have promoted from within and not gotten outside opinions. Lots of airlines these days have poor credit ratings and relaying that imparts no "wisdom" on our management's part. The concept of Midwest is not the sole property of one TH, but you feel it is and thus any defense of it is simply a defense of him: it's not.

It’s his watch. Plain and simple. I agree with the rampant nepotism at MEH, just look at the cookie maker. An inner circle of “yes” men/women is safe for the ego, but that is about it.

Personally I feel our value is tied up in those seats on the 717. I do not buy the koolaid of its the "people" of midwest. Our problem, as you mentioned, is a lack of advertising and differentiating our product.

in my area in the NW 'burbs i have seen 3 midwest billboards, but again the message is (imo) bad. it's simply, "my airline is in MKE, no more ORD delays". it imparts none of the positive service that we seem to have so much pride in, but don't seem to sell to well.

I know the one. I was shocked and impressed when I finally saw it. They will get a better price per seat and higher loads if they get the word out, but 2x2 in a CRJ is not the Midwest product. Now, people can connect in MKE and never get on a YX plane.

 

[CitationLover]

I know the one. I was shocked and impressed when I finally saw it. They will get a better price per seat and higher loads if they get the word out, but 2x2 in a CRJ is not the Midwest product. Now, people can connect in MKE and never get on a YX plane.

you've got 400 people on the other side of D concourse who will shout amen to that. did you see the little "nudge" from the company on YXNet re: peter king from si?

 

[CitationLover]

Again I don't agree with your opinion that AAI was going to shut down SYX. If we could sit over a beer I could say more. Meet at the Landmark?

My point exactly, take away the 96 mil. Subtract 96 mil from MEH's 2006 income. The point I am making it is very easy to SKEW the loss or gain of a wholly owned subsidiary. Quote me please the ACTUAL money used by MEH to operate SYX IN 2006? WELL? That number (IF you could find it) will be much less than the pay per departure going forward w Skywest. There is a difference between 'supporting' and subsidizing... never mind but please MAKE NO MISTAKE, I HOPE MIDEX SURVIVES AND THRIVES IN THE FUTURE...WE ARE ALL BROTHERS! I just took offence to the Skyway slander, forgive me.

Have you ever heard of confidentiality agreements, old corporate pro that you are I am sure...

By the way your EAS numbers don't mean much without an assoiciated cost per city, but you're an old pro...

I wish I could say more!

-TC

well an "unofficial" source is unnamed and thus a corporate confidentiality agreement is kind of unenforceable. just like those washington insiders leaking information.

the ACTUAL money to operate skyway is a moot point as the stock or the new LLC is the sum of the parts. if skyway was cheaper than skywest, skyway would still be around. it's hard to beat an undercutter with cheap old ACA birds. you get no argument from me that skywest enabled TH to dump skyway, that's exactly what sadly happened. AMR is trying to do the same thing with Eagle right now, selling off or dumping and going to the lowest bidder.

 

[deadstick]

you've got 400 people on the other side of D concourse who will shout amen to that. did you see the little "nudge" from the company on YXNet re: peter king from si?

Yea I saw that. "regional jet -- the airline industry's euphemism for "puddle-jumper'' "

 

[FlyWolf]

Midwest Names Chief Operating Officer
Monday February 4, 9:35 am ET Midwest Appoints Former Delta Executive VP Joseph Kolshak Operations Chief

MILWAUKEE (AP) -- Regional airline company Midwest Air Group Inc. said Monday it appointed former Delta executive Joseph Kolshak chief operating officer.
Kolshak most recently was executive vice president of operations at Delta Air Lines Inc., where he worked for 20 years. Midwest did not say when he will become its chief operating officer.
David Reeve, who had dual roles as senior vice president of operations and president and chief executive of Skyway Airlines, a Midwest subsidiary, will continue as Skyway's president and CEO.
Midwest is to be acquired by private equity firm TPG Capital and fellow carrier Northwest Airlines Corp. for about $450 million in cash. The deal closed Thursday after being approved by antitrust regulators. Northwest was to pay 47 percent of the price, or about $213.3 million.

 

[GOULET!]

you've got 400 people on the other side of D concourse who will shout amen to that. did you see the little "nudge" from the company on YXNet re: peter king from si?

Was I the only one who found it funny that the news of them shutting down Skyway was on that page for 2 days followed by Peter King's "review" of Midwest which was up there for almost 2 weeks. Very nice way of the company covering up the bad news so quickly.

 

[CitationLover]

Was I the only one who found it funny that the news of them shutting down Skyway was on that page for 2 days followed by Peter King's "review" of Midwest which was up there for almost 2 weeks. Very nice way of the company covering up the bad news so quickly.

Out of sight, out of mind I guess.

 

[Moustache]

Midwest Names Chief Operating Officer
Monday February 4, 9:35 am ET Midwest Appoints Former Delta Executive VP Joseph Kolshak Operations Chief

MILWAUKEE (AP) -- Regional airline company Midwest Air Group Inc. said Monday it appointed former Delta executive Joseph Kolshak chief operating officer.
Kolshak most recently was executive vice president of operations at Delta Air Lines Inc., where he worked for 20 years. Midwest did not say when he will become its chief operating officer.
David Reeve, who had dual roles as senior vice president of operations and president and chief executive of Skyway Airlines, a Midwest subsidiary, will continue as Skyway's president and CEO.
Midwest is to be acquired by private equity firm TPG Capital and fellow carrier Northwest Airlines Corp. for about $450 million in cash. The deal closed Thursday after being approved by antitrust regulators. Northwest was to pay 47 percent of the price, or about $213.3 million.

Now that snake can be a ramp supervisor.

 

[deadstick]

http://www.todaystmj4.com/features/iteam/15331941.html
(see video)

TMJ= Timmay's Misinformed (Misled, etc - you pick) Journalists

Poor Timmay doesn't want to fly these routes any more, but the big bad federal government is making him. Boo hoo. Go eat a cookie and quit crying.

TMJ got played big time. They had access, too. Usually the media is outside of the restricted areas, but not this time. Think they had somebody paving the way for them? Hmmm, maybe Brophy?

Timmay is trying to get the good folks of MKE to stand behind their "hometown" airline and get their elected reps in DC involved so he won't have to pay the fines.

Didn't USA Today stoke the EAS fire back in December? Wow. TMJ is really on the cutting edge of journalism.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

hey, just wanted let the sky way guys know the list came out with a lot of you on it. So you guys should be hearing a call soon.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/
transportation/10402515.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&
cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Perhaps the battle for the Milwaukee hub is only just beginning.
Last week, Northwest joined with investor TPG Capital to acquire Milwaukee-based Midwest Airlines for $452 million. That blocked AirTran's effort, dating back to late 2006, to acquire the carrier. The deal closed after the Department of Justice ended its review, enabling Midwest shareholders to sell out for $17 a share.
Times have changed since the bid was offered and accepted in mid-August. Oil prices have risen about 20%, the Amex Airline Index has fallen by roughly the same amount and airlines have rushed to reduce domestic capacity.
Last month, Midwest announced it will lay off 380 people from subsidiary Skyway Airlines, as it moves to outsource regional flying. Meanwhile, AirTran has been building its Milwaukee service, which will total 20 daily departures to 13 destinations by May.
AirTran CEO Bob Fornaro suggested during an earnings conference call last week that Northwest may be feeling "buyer's remorse" about the deal. A year ago, he added, Midwest was anticipating future profits.
"They missed the numbers by a mile," he said. "We think Midwest has got a lot of issues, and they will only get worse."
As for AirTran's Milwaukee expansion, Fornaro said, "We got tired of waiting around."
Northwest CEO Doug Steenland, asked during the Northwest earnings conference call, denied the airline regretted the Midwest acquisition. "We think it was the right decision then [and] the right decision today," he said. "If you look at things over the longer term, we're pleased with the result."
AirTran's new service will include seasonal flights to Boston and three west coast cities, as well as added flights to Las Vegas. Service to New York's LaGuardia Airport is also planned. Already, AirTran serves Atlanta, Baltimore, Las Vegas, Orlando, Phoenix and Tampa.
Currently, AirTran has a 7% market share in Milwaukee, compared to 54% for Midwest and 12.6% for Northwest. It operates out of four gates, and could offer about 10 daily flights per gate, about twice what is currently planned.
Milwaukee is not an AirTran hub, at least not yet. "It's a focus city, serving large local markets, but it does offer the benefit of having some connections," said AirTran Senior Vice President Kevin Healy, in an interview. The new West Coast flights will allow for convenient connections to East Coast markets, he said. Still, connecting traffic will involve less than 20% of the carrier's Milwaukee passengers.
Northwest's engagement in merger talks with Delta also raises questions about Milwaukee's future.
Northwest holds 47% of Midwest's shares and has the right to acquire TPG's shares in the future. For the moment, Northwest is a passive investor and will not participate in day-to-day management decisions, a spokesman said.
Still, were Northwest to merge with Delta, there would be the possibility to create an airline that had control of hubs in Cincinnati, Detroit, Milwaukee and Minneapolis.
The Department of Justice would likely have concerns, Healy says. "Because Northwest has the right to purchase all the Midwest shares, there could be a requirement for divestiture in Cincinnati or Milwaukee or to give up space in a primary hub, because that would be a problematic level of concentration," he says.
To a degree, Northwest purchased long-term hub insurance through its acquisition, which blocked the immediate creation of an AirTran hub separating its own Detroit and Minneapolis hubs. "They wanted to keep AirTran from building a large hub right on their doorstep," says FTN Midwest analyst Mike Derchin.
While Northwest succeeded in the short-term, long-term questions remain. "AirTran will certainly make life miserable for Midwest," Derchin says. "And if Delta and Northwest decide to merge, it will be interesting to see if Milwaukee falls out and AirTran has another chance to pick it up on the cheap."

 

[hyperboy]

Tpg

Yea I guess that TPG would just give MEH to Air Tran in the long run.

 

[Propsync]

Bump, for old times sake