more ACA furloughs

[avrodriver]

Thanks General, what would we ever do without you, you know General I'm actually a fan of your for the most part. As you've probably noticed at the regionals it seems alot of guys at the top don't really seem to worry about the guys at the bottom. For someone as high up as you are to be such an advocate for your F'd is awesome. I didn't mean to jump on you.....and I know we are all entiled to write what we want, but I honestly if an airline the size of Delta parked 32 a/c.....if it wasn't for your well thought out & and well defended " No F'd" clause, guys would be on the street. Do you really need to ask what would happen to an airline the size of ACA? But your entiled.....so I'm going to go out on a limb and say unfortunately yes guys will be F'd. Have a good weekend. AD

 

[luckydog]

General,

As everyone knows, Delta has pilots on furlough. We all are VERY aware of your personal desire to have them back flying. It's admireable, now get over it!

Just once, is it possible to post something not relating to Delta?

Lets all count how many more posts it takes before he hijacks the thread into a Comair bashfest...

 

[General Lee]

Luckydog,

No, no, I don't want this to turn into a Comair bash fest. I was really wondering about the ACA guys and if United was going to keep them or if they were going to start their own LCC. Seriously, I don't just sit here and write stuff so I can see it on the screen. I have MANY friends on furlough at DAL, AA, UAL, and I know people at ACA--and I just wanted to know the situation from the inside--from ACA guys/gals.

Avro,

No hard feelings, and I wasn't trying to slam anyone. I feel very very lucky to have been spared from a furlough (as of yet, I guess???) and hope the current furloughs from all airlines get back into cockpits. I flew for the commuters (an early '90s term--now they are definitely regionals or even larger)--and I know how it feels to be looked at and not acknowledged---by plenty of Delta guys too in the mid '90s, and I have always remembered that. (not all of them are like that) As a 727 FE I remember having to hear these cocky 727FO's say something about ASA or someone else, and I always said, "They work a lot harder than you do..." I enjoy airline aviation as a whole, and love watching planes, and getting informed on these types of internet boards. As I also told you before---I like to workout etc....but I won't get into that again. Take it easy.

Treetopflyer,

Thank you for the update. It is interesting that UAL is slowly walking away---and the Comair Dojo part is also interesting. I wonder how many will take the Comair deal? Regardless, I thank you again and wish you luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WhiteCloud]

but the new rumor is that the dojet guys will have the option of going with the planes to comair or being let go. (obviously not endorsing, just repeating)

Let go?!? Where's that coming from? They're on the ACA seniority list right?

 

[Tim47SIP]

Why??

What is going on over there to cause the furloughs? I was under the impression that really nothing has changed at this point in time concerning United or Delta?

For the Delta guys. I've been talking with a couple of my corporate law buddies and asked them their view of the following (I did not mention any companies);
two companies have an agreement in writing, a contractor and main company. Later, the main company signs an agreement with a different entity placing restrictions upon the contractor. The contractor, based on his current agreement, breaks the restriction set by the main companies new agreement with that different entity. Has the contractor violated its original agreement? My freinds say no. They also insinuate that the main company could not arbitrarily change the contractors original contract without the contractors acknowledgment thus making the new restrictions void.

I do understand that the agreement was the Do Jet's only, but there were no restrictions (aircraft > 70 seats) at the time of the agreement with ACA and Delta management, as ACA may not have signed the contract knowing they would have any restriction placed upon them. I also understand that Delta did sign your contract (in 2000) that had the restrictions. So, realistically, if Delta kept ACA regardless of your PWA, could DALPA really do anything about it? If they (DALPA) went to court, would the judge rule in favor of DALPA or ACA as the contract is still binding as it was written which was prior to your PWA.

I guess the point that I am getting at is that Delta management could simply say "Hey, nothing we can do about it so sorry!"
Any thoughts?

 

[Marko Ramius]

Is it possible?

That ACA management has simply been holding onto what they feel are surplus pilots as long as possible on the hope of reaching some sort of deal with UA to retain what they currently have? I don't work there, but as far as I can tell they aren't really close to a deal for Boeings or Airbii's let alone starting training for them. Additionally w/o a UA deal the J41's go away pretty much immediately, right? The DAL FRJ issue has been well bantied about as well. All of this would seem to point to furloughs imo, could it be they haven't happened because ACA management hopes to still reach a deal and need to be prepared for it?

 

[46Driver]

I think Marko is right about the surplus pilots. Considering the fiasco we had starting ACJet and not having crews for the airplanes, my hunch is this time we had the situation reversed. We hired a bunch of new F.O.'s and promoted a bunch of F.O.'s to Captain - when we didn't get all of the new CRJ's, we were overstaffed. ACA held on as long as it could by offering voluntary furloughs to captains but finally it reached a stage that we had to furlough those new hire F.O.'s and displace those new captains.

 

[FDJ2]

Re: Why??

[QUOTEI guess the point that I am getting at is that Delta management could simply say "Hey, nothing we can do about it so sorry!"
Any thoughts? [/B][/QUOTE]

Well there actually is something DAL would have to do if ACA were to ever operate jets with greater than 70 seats. DAL would be required to let go of the ACA contract. There is a clause in the DAL-ACA contract for early termination of that contract. While I'm not sure whether or not DAL would then have to assume the DoJet leases or not, even if DAL had to, I'm sure DAL could find someone to fly them on the exact same routes they are on today.

 

[treetopflyer]

Re: Is it possible?

I don't work there, but as far as I can tell they aren't really close to a deal for Boeings or Airbii's let alone starting training for them...imo, could it be they haven't happened because ACA management hopes to still reach a deal and need to be prepared for it?

Marko,

You were correct initially, you are not qualified to make that grandios of an assumption, as far as I can tell. Since you don't work for ACA as I do, since you don't have access to our ALPA boards, or possibly have uninformed cohorts employed at ACA (or you believe what you read on this rumor board), you really wouldn't know what's going on between us and UAL.

There maybe a deal with UAL concerning our turboprop flying, but the rest is history. The furloughs are due to a myriad of schedule changes in ORD as flying is swapped between us, SKW and AWAC. There is no correlation between a possible reconcilliation between ACA and UAL and additional furloughs. That is the best answer I am qualified to give since I am not a scheduling guru, I just bid the packet and hope for the best.

Widely accepted speculation is that UAL is trying to strangle us as vindictively as possible as we gracefully exit the UAX program and make it hurt as they figure out how to unscrew themselves primarily in IAD and also ORD. There may be additional furoughs as projected staffing materialize during the gestation of Goldilocks (did that slut sleep with all three bears before or after she ate their porridge?). These furloughs may possibly be due to the transitionary period as we saw off the old ball and chain (hopefully we'll miss the femoural artery).

Also, as ALPA and MGT continue to battle it out over pay and bennies, ACA is in mid-stage talks with both Boeing and Airbus. ACA is planning to make the purchase announcement first week of November, if the itinerary holds.

My crystal ball goes fuzzy beyond that and my majic eight ball is on the charger. I really need to study for my maneuvers validation...max thrust, flaps 8, pos rate gear up, speed mode, heading, half bank, bug V2...

Tailwinds...

 

[g159av8tor]

I posted the above statements, not Treetop. Stupid cookies...

Tailwinds...