more ACA furloughs

[46Driver]

House,
I seriously doubt if the company can force us to leave - more likely, they might give us the option of leaving.

As for picking up open time, that's got nothing to do with the furloughs. We simply have too many pilots - as evidenced by at least 70 captains being displaced to F.O. Also, you have some of the military guys coming back to ACA with the demobilization of their reserve units.

 

[JTrain]

Surplus - Good point. One of my friends from the CFI has a CMR DOH of March/00 and he is hanging out, enjoying the great QOL he gets as a sr. CRJ FO. For some reason I was under the impression that CA had gone more jr. at CMR than it had - my bad. Assuming I were to get transferred (and this is all idle Sat. afternoon speculation) to CMR, it would be my preference to stay in the D328J fleet, and I also suspect CMR would put some sort of fence around the CRJ initially to prevent the training bubble that you talked about. I appreciate all the perspectives you've offered on CMR on this board - it has given some good insight into your co.

I would suspect that *if* CMR were to take the D328Js, ACA crewmembers would be given the option of either going or staying. There are a # of sr. sr. ACA folks who anticipating the IAD D328J base had bid the equipment and are now commuting to BOS and CVG (these people could have been in the CRJ years ago at ACA but stayed in jr. equipment like the J41 or J32 for quality of life issues). Many such people would want to stay with the ACA LCC since they live in the Northern VA area - hence I strongly believe ACAers would be given stay or go options.

As I had mentioned earlier, it would be in ACA's interests were the D328J to leave the fleet to give the pilots the option of going to whomever would fly the a/c. The last thing ACA wants to do is spend $$$ on 350+ D328J crewmembers to retrain them in seniority order on the narrowbody or CRJ, then furlough because of a surplus of pilots. Whomever (CMR?) would benefit from taking the D328J with a pre-trained group of pilots.

Again - this is all idle Sat. afternoon speculation, I'm enjoying the perspectives Anacondan, House X, and others are offering as the rumor mill keeps pumping....

JT

 

[SkywayFO]

Well I am 1 of the 50 new F'd guys. I'm a CRJ guy here at ACA but I have about 800 hours in the 328J from my last airline. I'm game for going to Comair. Not that it will be offered to me but it is nice to dream. Atleast it seems at Comair you are treated a little more human. I for one never drank the company koolaid, I stuck with the vodka. I have been telling people this "project independence", "goldilocks" was not going to be pretty. I thought it was going to be "project take it in the A$$". Hell at this piont I would go to Comair just for the leather jacket!!!!




"Mav you got that number for that truck driving school? I think I'm going to need that. Truck Masters it think it was!!!"

 

[exphojump]

I would definitely go with the LCC.

Many of the 328 guys hired in 2000 might have a different opinion. They experienced the ACJet cluster. After furloughs, scared into bad TA, diplacements, Goldilocks raising false short term hopes, another round of displacements and furloughs, maybe more furloughs, and UAL jacking with us towards the end, I expect more than half would choose DOH at CMR.

Ain't no fun waiting 'round to be a millionaire.

 

[Beechnut]

What is the "Goldilocks" reference I keep reading about?

S.

 

[Patriot328]

JT,

This is all speculation as well, so don't bet the farm on any of it, but here are some numbers that may give you an idea. They are not "perfect" but they are reasonably close and based on our most recent published "list" (07/01/03)

You said your DOH was "mid summer" of 2000. I assumed that was June 1.

I count about 12 Captains on the CMR list with hire dates between 06/2000 and 12/2000.

Between 01/2000 and 05/2000 I count about 70 FO's (all senior to you - if you were hired in June). Going back to 1999, I count another 65 +- FO's, also senior to you. I didn't go further than that.

So roughly, there are now about 150 CMR FO's senior to you (I'm sure more if I went back further) and whether or not you could hold a left seat is somewhat doubtful.

If these airplanes did come to CMR and you guys come with them, I assume that no one would be displaced from his current position. I assume also that the seniority integration would be DOH. After that, future vacancies would be bid on seniority.

The Company would most likely want to avoid as much training as possible and would probably ask for some sort of fence to avoid the training bubble. That would present some problems due to the bypass provisions of the Comair PWA, but within reason, it is doable.

For these reasons, I don't see your rapid promotion to Captain as a result of this transition. Not with the seniority you currently have. It would take roughly 30 new airplanes to upgrade the FO's that are currently at CMR and senior to you. When or if those aiplanes will come is anybody's guess.

If Comairs' pilots don't give in to the concession request, they may never come and we might even lose some that we have now. If we do give in to concessions (which I hope we will not do) there is still no guarantee whatever that we will get even one new airplane. As long as Delta doesn't sign our PWA, we have no guaranteed flying of any kind, no matter what Comair might "promise".

This is just my opinion, but maybe it will give you some insight. Presonally I would be happy to welcome all of you with DOH seniority because I believe that is fair, but I have no idea what others think about it.

Best wishes and sorry you are having furloughs at ACA.

Excellent insight surplus... I agree with your view of it, as well. I would assume that it would be some kind of DOH integration with fences built in (since we're speculating... )..

To stay or go would be a tough choice, if it would be a choice at all... I'm about 500 at ACA (April 99 hire date).. *IF* G-lox takes off I will be in a pretty good position to sit on my arse at ACA and enjoy life. CMR is much more stable, at least near term (4-5 years).. how would I fair at CMR? I dunno.. I guess I'd be able to be a CA on a CRJ after the fence came down.. Part of me wants to go for the LCC ride, though. I'm still relatively young (few more years to go before 30) and single, so I think I can chance a risky airline for a while..

Look at the bright side.. at least we'll get SIDA badges at CVG.. no more security!!!!!!


Good luck to us all, but moreso to SkywayFO and the 145 other brothers and sisters that have been hit hardest by all of this.

 

[Herman Bloom]

House

If you really think that the company has furloughed 50 more pilots because a few people were picking up open time, well....you are an absolute moron. Do the math before you open your mouth. If someone from management read that post, he would laugh his/her butt off at how ignorant the pilot group is and how easy it will be to manipulate us. They don't need to know how stupid some of us are.

Oh, and I'm not one of the ones who picked it up. Not that I wouldn't have.

 

[acapilot2003]

The harsh reality that fee for departure is about as profitable as dot com..... It is too bad that a whole industry was built around bad science.... There will be some serious casualties before it is over and it sounds like ACA is first in line to go down the "proverbial tube". What a great time to have your company fail, just when there are no jobs in your line of work.... See ya later blue ridgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


DOGG


Is there a reason for your smart... comment? I try not to get caught up in all the politics and smack talking in the aviation industry, but I guess I didn't see any need for that comment. I have been a pilot because I love to fly and because I have to work to keep my family afloat financialy, even though regional airline pilots can hardly make a living these days. I have been on furlough from ACA now for about 5 months and can't get a job ANYWHERE, not even for any other regionals hiring. It's tough having a daughter and wife and a new house and not being able to find a job anywhere.

 

[House_X]

House

If you really think that the company has furloughed 50 more pilots because a few people were picking up open time, well....you are an absolute moron. Do the math before you open your mouth. If someone from management read that post, he would laugh his/her butt off at how ignorant the pilot group is and how easy it will be to manipulate us. They don't need to know how stupid some of us are.

Oh, and I'm not one of the ones who picked it up. Not that I wouldn't have.

If I'm such a moron, and picking up open time is not a factor, then why are you acknowledging that you never picked up open time?
The fact that you blast me for my comment and then put a disclaimer saying you never picked up open time already proves my point....case dismissed.

By the way...nice job on the name calling...

House

 

[46Driver]

My guess is that Herman is speaking logically (we have too many pilots as evidenced by the displacement of 70+ captains) - but some of y'all argue emotionally and consider it poor ethics to pick up open time.

 

[sleepy]

Just wondering, why would Comair want your pilots? If they are going to give concessions to get your FRJ's, they are going to want them for themselves. Is there anything in you agreement with DCI that requires them to take your pilots, or is this just wishful thinking?

 

[46Driver]

Sleepy,
There is a part in our contract that says if a certain percentage of our fleet is sold or transferred, the pilots have the option to go with the airplanes. (What that percentage is, I can't remember.)

From a practical standpoint (especially considering how the Dornier is a maintenance pig), I think Delta would make the offer to save on training costs as well as preventing a break in service.

Just my opinion.

 

[FDJ2]

What is the basis for all this speculation that the ACA DoJets are going to CMR?

 

[sleepy]

I work for ASA and don't have a dog in this fight, and I'm not trying to start some flaming, I am just wondering, ok.

So, how would your pilots fall into the Comair seniority list? Would the ALPA merger policy apply? I think Comair put something in their last contract that would cover integration if they ever aquire an airline with 30 seat or less aircraft.

If your pilots come to Comair with DOH integration, I wouldn't think that that would be much of an incentive for the Comair pilots to take concessions in exchange for getting your aircraft. They (you) will probably end up at Chit.

Hopefully when we (if we) start hiring again, ASA will give your furloughed pilots a chance for a job.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Not so fast. ASA already has concessionary rates for a 30-39 seat aircraft and a bunch of flying that used to be operated by an airplane with similar performance.... the E120.