Moral Question

EatSleepFly

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2003
Posts
648
Total Time
Some
Have a bit of an ethical question for the wise people of flightinfo.

I took my current job as officially a "part timer" because they didn't have any full time positions open, and I was desperate for something. Because they indicated it would lead to a full-time position as soon as they had a need, I hesitantly took it. The pay rates are the same between FT and PT, but there is no monthly guarantee and no benefits for PT. Somehow, I fell into the same 5-6 days on, 1-2 day off schedule as the full-timers. On a pager, 45 minute callout time, 24 hours a day.

They pay is good (not great), as long as I'm flying. The schedule sucks, but I knew that going in. The problem is the lack of benefits, and the fact that when I don't fly, I make nothing. That just isn't going to work for me. Like everyone else, I have bills to pay. Also, if I were unfortunate enough to get into some kind of accident, I would be in serious trouble without benefits.

Here is my dilema. I signed a one year training contract. [Pause for everyone to chime in that I'm a dumbass] My choices were sign the contract, get paid during training, or don't sign and no pay during training. I was really getting behind on bills, training pay was pretty good, and I thought that full-time employment there would come soon, so I (stupidly) signed.

Anyways, as you've probably surmised, I'm considering jumping ship. My target company at the moment is the closest competition. Here's why:

- I had interviewed there before. It went well, but at the time they didn't have any openings. So I already have a foot in the door with the CP, so to speak.
- They are in a more favorable location for me.
- I am 135 PIC current and qualified and have a few hundred hours in one of their main types.
- Their base pay and benefits are better.
- Their schedule is better.
- They seem to be growing a little faster and have more opportunity for advancement into other aircraft.
- They have pretty low turnover, and from talking to their pilots on the road, they are pretty happy there.
- They have a mix of scheduled and on-demand flying, so when the on-demand business is slow (like now), they're still doing some flying.

I live in an at-will employment state and can't imagine that a judge would enforce a training contract where I am not making a guranteed income or receiving benefits. I should add that in 5 months, I have flown as much as or more than some of the other part-timers fly in a year.

I feel that when it comes right down to it, I have to look out for myself. Will future interviewers understand my reasons when I explain that I broke a contract? Should I include something in my resignation letter (if it comes to that) about WHY I resigned (to take a full-time position w/ salary and benefits) so that future employers see that in my PRIA file if it shows up?

Opinions? Thoughts?

P.S.- There is a chance they may just let me out of the contract. When I was hesitant to sign in the first place, the DO mentioned they might be able to work with me if things were too slow to get by on. As of now, I have not given any indication that I am considering leaving.

Thanks in advance for any advice, and sorry for the long post!
 

troy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Posts
528
Total Time
~500
Not that I have a job beyond flight instructing, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush......plus you gave your word (as a good moral character) that you would fulfill your year.
 

k_EAT=ho_ME

Closet User...shhhh!
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Posts
128
Total Time
~2300
If the company's fortunes took a turn for the worse, and they lost a bunch of flying, putting you on the street, were you going to be looked after (beyond maybe crappy state unemployment)?


Nah...didn't think so.
 

Flechas

........
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Posts
1,964
Total Time
$$$$$$
My advice is to jump ship. Tell them that you really appreciate the opportunity, that youm had a great time and learned tons. Butyou have to look out for yourself and the other job would accomplish that.

Like I've said before here,even though you signed a contract,if your current company had tolet you go, they would in a heart beat.

Just be very diplomatic about it.


Good luck!
 

empenage

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
528
Total Time
8500
Tell your current employer the truth. Tell them you are concerned about having no benefits, etc. If your current employer wants to keep you around they will step up to the plate.

In the long run you have to do what is best for "you".

You really have to be careful not to burn any bridges in this business though. Some day you will be asking your current employer for a reference.

Good luck with your decision.
 

MTpilot

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Posts
291
Total Time
2000
Training contracts are unenforceable anyway, bail, jobs and companys come and go, no company in the future is going to give you trouble about training contracts all they will want to know is your TT.
 

AA717driver

A simpler time...
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Posts
4,911
Total Time
+/-13k
I think the only mistake you've made so far is seeking moral guidance on this board! :eek:

I agree with empenage.TC
 

flint4xx

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2001
Posts
374
Total Time
10000+
Take the other job, and still offer to work for the old one part time. No contract to enforce, since you are, and have been only part time and are still willing to work.
 

FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Posts
8,573
Total Time
7,000+
AA717driver said:
I think the only mistake you've made so far is seeking moral guidance on this board! :eek:
High five to you bra...
 

BD King

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Posts
407
Total Time
14000
FN FAL said:
High five to you bra...

My thoughts exactly. Almost like a 12 year old going to a sex hungry priest and confessing the sin of choking his chicken.
 

English

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
3,374
Total Time
1
flint4xx said:
Take the other job, and still offer to work for the old one part time. No contract to enforce, since you are, and have been only part time and are still willing to work.


I like this one.
 

Flywrite

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Posts
770
Total Time
5500
Is there anything in the contract covering how much you must be available as a part-timer?

You say you are on-call like the full-timers, which sounds like you are getting hosed.

This comes down to your decision. Morally and ethically I dont see a problem with jumping ship if the employer is not living up to his end of the agreement. If he is, then take a look at the amount of the contract, how long is left on it, how long will be left on it in a couple of months when you are ready to move on, and see if you can work out some sort of arrangement to repay it.

If the contract stipulates that you will work as a part-timer with no bennies, but you have documentation that you are working as much as the full-timers, I say ask for bennies, if they dont come, get out and dont look back.
 

k_EAT=ho_ME

Closet User...shhhh!
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Posts
128
Total Time
~2300
BD King said:
...confessing the sin of choking his chicken.

It's a sin? Crap, crap, crap.










<<<< Have to change my current position to "Going to hell."
 

EatSleepFly

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2003
Posts
648
Total Time
Some
English said:
I like this one.

I do too, but the problem is it's on-demand freight. I really don't think that idea would fly (no pun intended) with either employer. The one I'm at now, I have to be very close to given the 45 minute callout time.

There is nothing in the contract that says how much I must fly and/or be available. They just said when I started they wanted me to give a minimum of 3 days a week. Three turned into more, when I needed to make myself available to fly all the time just in hopes of getting a trip to pay the bills.

I've brought up the issue a few times, and been shot down because it's too slow and/or we've got enough pilots. They could probably get rid of me and a full-timer and still be covered.

I feel like a w'hore because I've given them no reason to put me on full time. I moved closer to make the 45 min. callout time, and I make myself available the same as the full-timers. Guess I did it to myself.

Thanks for the input so far everyone, it is appreciated!
 

FN FAL

Freight Dawgs Rule
Joined
Dec 17, 2003
Posts
8,573
Total Time
7,000+
k_EAT=ho_ME said:
It's a sin? Crap, crap, crap.
It depends, if you choke a chicken for food, it's not a sin. If you choke a chicken for fun...well, say three Hail Mary's and ten "Our father who art thou's"
 

k_EAT=ho_ME

Closet User...shhhh!
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Posts
128
Total Time
~2300
FN FAL said:
It depends, if you choke a chicken for food, it's not a sin. If you choke a chicken for fun...well, say three Hail Mary's and ten "Our father who art thou's"

I'm confused. This is too much like trying to understand duty/rest times.
 

Resume Writer

Registered User
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Posts
1,121
Total Time
16 yrs
flint4xx said:
Take the other job, and still offer to work for the old one part time. No contract to enforce, since you are, and have been only part time and are still willing to work.

I agree with this one. HOWEVER, put it in writing that you are willing to do this and hand it to the boss. Ask him to put it into your personnel file.

After you have discussed this with your boss, send a letter to him and the company, return receipt requested, that states what your agreement is, i.e., you will continue to work P/T, or they said, "no we will not go after you for the training contract," etc., so you have a paper trail. That way, in case you leave, and they decide to come back at your later, you have proof of receipt by the company to show in court.

Just my two cents...

Kathy
 
Top