MKE Incident... first it was Pinnacle, now it's Mesaba

[Flyer1015]

Yeah flyer but you forgot your slam on the Mesaba guys with this remark:

"Yeah, because the runway is what caused the overly excessive sink rate .

And I like some of the XJ guys already talkin about how it was a gear strut problem. You should replace the NTSB, it seems they have no reason to exist anymore. "

This is the same anti-Mesaba stuff you are constantly spewing that drives people apart instead of bringing together.

That response was due to the XJ types who had apparently already known what went wrong and found the cause.

 

[bri5150]

That response was due to the XJ types who had apparently already known what went wrong and found the cause.

That is because us former xjers talk on a seperate web board about things that have gone wrong and we all pass along information that is helpful for us all to learn from an issue going forward. There was a person posting on there about how he personally wrote up the equipment before the flight in question. There was also another that knew the pilot on the incident flight. Sure, they could have posted false information, but it is highly unlikely.

This is not an insult to Pinnacle, just a statement on how Mesaba does/did things. Our safety culture is not an accident (ha ha, funny use of words ). Our training department is/was focused on things that make a difference to safety as opposed to memorizing crap that isn't needed. Our pilots talk about incidents and learn what could have been done better. Sure, we have stalled Saabs before, but it is used by the training department and the other pilots as an example to learn from. This incident is no different. We have all talked about what happened and what to look for through forums and in the cockpit. I am sure this is done at other airlines, but the question is why are we are being questioned about knowing something happening at our own airline?

 

[RJLoser]

That would be good info to post on airlinkpilots.com for the PCL 900 guys.

 

[DoinTime]

That is because us former xjers talk on a seperate web board about things that have gone wrong and we all pass along information that is helpful for us all to learn from an issue going forward. There was a person posting on there about how he personally wrote up the equipment before the flight in question. There was also another that knew the pilot on the incident flight. Sure, they could have posted false information, but it is highly unlikely.

Just for a factual piece of discussion, I've heard now that a strut that had been written up for a "shimmy" during taxi somehow caused an alleged hard landing that blew two tires and blew apart the strut assembly? Which wheel assembly are we talking about here (nose, left main, right main)? I had assumed that we were talking about a main strut here but main struts don't cause a "shimmy" while taxiing no matter how you slice it.

I've been flying this plane (unless this was a -900) for over 10 years now and this story just isn't adding up yet.

This is not an insult to Pinnacle, just a statement on how Mesaba does/did things. Our safety culture is not an accident (ha ha, funny use of words ). Our training department is/was focused on things that make a difference to safety as opposed to memorizing crap that isn't needed. Our pilots talk about incidents and learn what could have been done better. Sure, we have stalled Saabs before, but it is used by the training department and the other pilots as an example to learn from. This incident is no different. We have all talked about what happened and what to look for through forums and in the cockpit. I am sure this is done at other airlines, but the question is why are we are being questioned about knowing something happening at our own airline?

How is this any different from what goes on at Pinnacle?

 

[bri5150]

Just for a factual piece of discussion, I've heard now that a strut that had been written up for a "shimmy" during taxi somehow caused an alleged hard landing that blew two tires and blew apart the strut assembly? Which wheel assembly are we talking about here (nose, left main, right main)? I had assumed that we were talking about a main strut here but main struts don't cause a "shimmy" while taxiing no matter how you slice it.

I've been flying this plane (unless this was a -900) for over 10 years now and this story just isn't adding up yet.






How is this any different from what goes on at Pinnacle?

I don't know how it is different than Pinnacle. That's why I said it wasn't an insult to Pinnacle. I can infer it may not happen because Flyer was wondering how we knew what was wrong with the aircraft, but I don't know the culture there because I haven't started flying with original 9E guys yet.

A shimmy can be caused by a main gear if the damn thing is loose, right? The only people that are calling this a "hard landing" is the press. Do you trust in their definition of a hard landing? As someone earlier posted, they said it was a "Delta Connection Learjet" as well. If the strut assembly blows apart because it is broken, do you think that the two tires below will probably blow as well? What is there to not understand? Hey, maybe I'm wrong, but with the information I am presented with, this seems to be the most logical conclusion. More logical than someone (at any airline) landing so hard that it blows the strut apart and there is nobody injured on the aircraft. Someone posted 5k fpm...are you kidding me?

 

[bri5150]

That would be good info to post on airlinkpilots.com for the PCL 900 guys.

While I agree with your opinion here, it is harder to post stuff like this because they use real names there. There is more accountability that way, but damn straight I am going to be more careful about what I say over there with regards to how our company does business. There is a big difference between using a user name and everyone still knowing who you are, and using real names and having a company mole have direct proof of what you are saying. I am not one to hide behind a user name, but I am not dumb either. Ask those that I fly with. Everything I post here is what I believe and would say to your face.

 

[RJLoser]

My mistake. I thought you guys used your names on your site.

 

[DoinTime]

I don't know how it is different than Pinnacle. That's why I said it wasn't an insult to Pinnacle. I can infer it may not happen because Flyer was wondering how we knew what was wrong with the aircraft, but I don't know the culture there because I haven't started flying with original 9E guys yet.

Its pretty much the same at Pinnacle, although we use real names to increase accountability on airlinkpilots.com. I'm not sure that a writeup on a possibly unrelated part can be considered conclusive proof on if there was a mechanical problem here.

A shimmy can be caused by a main gear if the damn thing is loose, right?

Probably not. At least not that the pilot would be able to detect.

If the strut assembly blows apart because it is broken, do you think that the two tires below will probably blow as well?

Probably not but possibly yes.

What is there to not understand? Hey, maybe I'm wrong, but with the information I am presented with, this seems to be the most logical conclusion. More logical than someone (at any airline) landing so hard that it blows the strut apart and there is nobody injured on the aircraft. Someone posted 5k fpm...are you kidding me?

I think its pretty clear that there is is not nearly enough evidence to conclude anything on this matter. Pilot error or mechanical discrepancy alike.

 

[mesaba13]

I have personally seen a main strut deflated by MX and it goes metal to metal and I would imagine it wouldn't taxi too good. I also thought it was interesting to watch them pump the strut back up, as the wing on that side rotates/rises 6-8 inches.

I would also imagaine it would be easy to blow the tire when a strut blows because now the air/gas strut is not taking up any impact as all of the impact is taking up by the tire and aircraft structure. Also, the tire may not of blown but instead have been blown off the "bead" which casues instant deflation.

 

[Flyer1015]

That is because us former xjers talk on a seperate web board about things that have gone wrong and we all pass along information that is helpful for us all to learn from an issue going forward. There was a person posting on there about how he personally wrote up the equipment before the flight in question. There was also another that knew the pilot on the incident flight. Sure, they could have posted false information, but it is highly unlikely.

This is not an insult to Pinnacle, just a statement on how Mesaba does/did things. Our safety culture is not an accident (ha ha, funny use of words ). Our training department is/was focused on things that make a difference to safety as opposed to memorizing crap that isn't needed. Our pilots talk about incidents and learn what could have been done better. Sure, we have stalled Saabs before, but it is used by the training department and the other pilots as an example to learn from. This incident is no different. We have all talked about what happened and what to look for through forums and in the cockpit. I am sure this is done at other airlines, but the question is why are we are being questioned about knowing something happening at our own airline?

Really? Even if the airplane I was flying was involved in an incident and had a writeup before, I'd hate to be judged and second guessed by my colleagues on a forum behind my back.

 

[bri5150]

Are you reading my posts? We are NOT second guessing the pilot. It soinds like maintenence may have been the issue here. We may never know.

 

[DoinTime]

Are you reading my posts? We are NOT second guessing the pilot. It soinds like maintenence may have been the issue here. We may never know.

If you don't know, why not just say you don't know. We aren't playing charades here. "Sounds like" is not a legitimate clue.

 

[Crizz]

Shimmy damper, etc.

Just for a factual piece of discussion, I've heard now that a strut that had been written up for a "shimmy" during taxi somehow caused an alleged hard landing that blew two tires and blew apart the strut assembly? Which wheel assembly are we talking about here (nose, left main, right main)? I had assumed that we were talking about a main strut here but main struts don't cause a "shimmy" while taxiing no matter how you slice it.

I've been flying this plane (unless this was a -900) for over 10 years now and this story just isn't adding up yet.

929 is, in fact, a -900. And there is, in fact, a "shimmy damper" installed on the main landing gear. If a main gear -in fact- cannot shimmy... then one wonders why they would install such a worthless paperweight to an otherwise uncluttered maingear assembly?


See the Shimmy Damper for yourself