Misery loves Comany: PCL to park 15 CRJs

[Redmeat]

Not likely Red Meat.

That's where we'd LIKE them to go, otherwise we get stuck here even LONGER than we had planned.

But NWA will be ditching scope in bankruptcy, you can count on it.

Once they do that, they'll put the 70-90 seaters wherever they d*mn well please, and I seriously doubt it will be at the higher cost-level mainline playing field, otherwise there'd be no reason to go after scope, now would there?

"Now would there?"

“NEWCO” will be the biggest variable in this ugly game at NWA, Pinnacle and Mesaba and possibly the future regional who will purchase “NEWCO”. The following is a pessimistic view of NEWCO and I welcome any optimism.

According to senior management "NEWCO" WILL fly 100 seat jets at regional pay as MYNAMEISJIM stated. Management already considers this a fact. NEWCO might be a new regional (operated by furloughed NWA Pilots), or a division of mainline (C-Scale), or something else that no one has mentioned.

Initially NEWCO was intended to fly 100 seat jets. However, after the Bankruptcy senior management stated that the cost differences between operating 70 seaters at a Regional vs. at Mainline have become “negligible.” And, subject to significant negotiations, 70 seaters could realistically be flown by mainline pilots (at regional wages) i.e “NEWCO”.

If NWA pilots create a separate division, I predict “NEWCO” will become the next generation MidAtlantic. Created to give the impression of saving mainline jobs and providing jobs to furloughs (as DC-9s are quietly replaced by RJs at regional wages) and later sold to gain financing in order to exit bankruptcy. I can’t think of any contract language to prevent this because a Judge can approve anything if it is “necessary” for the survival of the company and to exit bankruptcy. U.S. Airways created MidAtlantic (NEWCO) while in bankruptcy and sold it to Chautauqua in order to exit bankruptcy. A genius management idea if you ask me. The average (almost all) NWA pilots have never even heard of MidAtlantic and most who have heard of it don’t know what happened. Those who don’t learn from the past are doomed to have it repeated. The NWA pilots will also rationalize their concessions because they are saving their pensions. That is exactly how U.S Airways and United saved their pensions. Oh wait? They still turned them over to the PBGC. Again, we are destined to repeat our mistakes.

"Newco" will consist of all furloughed mainline pilots, flying whatever "CRJ" equipment is decided on. Essentially a regional at regional pay while these guys wait to go back to mainline.

 

[100LL... Again!]

You guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves here. Mesaba isn't necessarily getting the 15 CRJs. It's possible that NWA just wants them parked temporarily. Also, nothing has been said so far about furloughs or displacements. All we know is that 15 RJs are getting parked for now. With our staffing levels so low, it's entirely possible that no one will get furloughed. In fact, it's possible that upgrades and new-hire classes will pick right back up as soon as the dust settles and management gets their bearings. Much more will be known tomorrow afternoon. No need to start getting worried and stressed out just yet.

100LL, I hate to break it to you little man, but I and many of the GIA guys sit in the top half of the seniority list. We aren't going anywhere. Thanks for playing though.

That's why I said "figure out a way", you craven little PFT whore.

Still in the business of rationalizing your own actions while bashing others?

 

[Lear70]

Now RedMeat, let me get this straight. You're quoting an individual's personal OPINION that has no FACTS to back it up? By that person's OWN ADMISSION it's THEIR "pessimistic view" of NewCo.

And I'm supposed to read this person's drivel and automatically put 100% faith in it and agree completely? I simply don't, because...

WHY would mainline management put any aircraft in their fleet when they can operate it for 30%-40% less at one of their regional partners?

Must have missed Business 101 the day they talked about cost -vs- profit, did ya'?

I'll say it again... I don't WANT them here, or at Mesaba... it makes an already stunted career that much longer in the "minor leagues". I'm just being realistic as to what would be the most cost effective and what, therefore, the mainline carrier would MOST LIKELY seek in Chapt 11 - the lowest cost.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

At CAE in YUL, PCL VP's were on the schedule for the EMB 170 sim this past week.

WTF would the execs care about seeing a sim?

 

[TurboAWD]

Fly4hire:

I'm sick of you whiney mainline pilots complaining about 500hr regional pilots stealing your jobs and working for nothing when it was mainline pilots who didn't care about anything but their new, bigger boat they could buy with the raise they could get if they would let up on scope and let regionals fly those dumb little 50, I mean 70, no, wait 100 seat jets.

Shortsighted and selfish, and it screws me over just as much if not more than you.

Yes, there are some dumb schmucks at the regional that want your airplanes. Just like there are dumb guys like you at mainline that think we "took" them (you gave it away). What I want is your job. The whole package. QOL, Pay, hot young stews , etc. Not your stupid airplane.

 

[airmasn]

How about being furloughed from a $120K/yr job after 8 yrs (and 20 + yrs flying)at your airline, with kids in college and retirement looming because your company is in Ch11 and is outsourcing your job to $20K/yr FO's with little TT or expereince? Glad all you RedTail 9E/XJ guys and gals stick together. I notice that doesn't extend to the Red Tail from whence your jobs sprang and the pilots at NWA that your parasitic career is feeding on.

You have no idea how sick I am of listening to you guys drool about getting that 70/90 seat jet at the cost of more of our pilots, and now whining when someone parks one of you jets. We have 500 on the street, soon to be joined by another 400, with another 1000 possibly after that.

I realize it's our respective companies, not the pilots, but some of you carry on like the relatives fighting over the estate of a not yet dead relative. Shameful.

Hey numbnuts...

I dont see anyone drooling over any 70 or 90 seat airplanes here...we are all smart enough to realize that could be detrimental to our careers. And as for the parasitic career we all have here, Pinnacle and Mesaba make a ton of cash for NWA. Dont believe it? Go send your fu@*ing Airbusses to Greenville Mississippi and Monroe Louisiana then. Better yet, go crawl back up your husband's ass.

You talk like you were born in the left seat of the 757...prick.

 

[Redmeat]

Now RedMeat, let me get this straight. You're quoting an individual's personal OPINION that has no FACTS to back it up? By that person's OWN ADMISSION it's THEIR "pessimistic view" of NewCo.

And I'm supposed to read this person's drivel and automatically put 100% faith in it and agree completely? I simply don't, because...

WHY would mainline management put any aircraft in their fleet when they can operate it for 30%-40% less at one of their regional partners?

Must have missed Business 101 the day they talked about cost -vs- profit, did ya'?

I'll say it again... I don't WANT them here, or at Mesaba... it makes an already stunted career that much longer in the "minor leagues". I'm just being realistic as to what would be the most cost effective and what, therefore, the mainline carrier would MOST LIKELY seek in Chapt 11 - the lowest cost.

Not fact.

Just word around the camp fire.

 

[Flyinisforbirds]

I was talking to a NWA pilot not to long ago and I stated "I think all jet flying should be done at mainline including 50 seaters" and he said "no..50 seats should be flown by the regionals". These are not exact quotes but as close as I can remember.


Why have mainline pilots psychologically given up on good flying? And, if they gave up I might be ok, but I think they never even wanted it. That’s what got us into this problem in the first place. I just don’t get it. Unless you are considering a career at a regional (which I consider a perfectly legitimate career choice), I think all pilots should prefer any jet flying to be done at a mainline and go to the bargaining table with that mentality.

 

[jetfo]

Why do we continue to allow the mainline/regional management groups to divide and conquer our collective pilot groups?

What we should all strive for is to have all flying for a particular carrier be under the same colors and the same pilot group.

You simply get paid by the number of seats you fly and this provides a stable career path from a CRJ to a 747 under mainline work rules.

Better yet, inefficient aircraft such as the CRJ440/200 and AVRO85 with 69 seats won't be artificially downsized and utilized to fit some absurd scope clause. Although, the extra closet space is certainly nice.

Everyone is in the same boat, with the same opportunities for advancement based on seniority into ever larger equipment at higher rates of compensation.

Of course, this would prevent management from playing pilots off against each other, and we can't have that now, can we?!?

There I go thinking again. Forgive me!

 

[Deli Guy]

Man, this is one hoppin' thread. I really think most of the pilots at mainline--even those close to furlough-- do not realize how critical the 70-100 seat flying is right now. I mean right now. Alpa is discussing this with management right now. This one issue is probably going to impact more pilots under the "Red Tail" than any other. If other than mainline gets the flying, this equals 1000+ furloughs because it is the replacement for the 9 and, of course, it will start taking some of the 320 flying. If mainline gets the flying the reverse will happen. It will probably impact the 50 seaters where 50 seaters are vulnerable causing furloughs (I do not know the markets so no predictions) If mainline gets the flying, we may end up at CHQ or the like and without much senority.

Anybody got their stuff in at Jetblue? It might or might not be a long term job (I am betting it will be) but at least they are treated well right now. Hey, lets demand that the name of NEWCO becomes Jetred and demand that management treats us better! Then lets make Jetred the transition point for a flowthrough for Pcl & Mesaba to mainline! Follow me men!!!!