Rez O. Lewshun
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Miracle on the Hudson: brought to you by Union workers
- Thread starter Rez O. Lewshun
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JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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I am sensing a slight bit of backlash....
So what is the purpose of unions?
You tell us......
I am sensing a slight bit of backlash....
So what is the purpose of unions?
I'll bite.....
In this case at this point in time, this union is a source of revenue for a few bloated individuals with self serving interests. Not a whole lot different from senior management.
rigger
Well-known member
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I wanna know what the union is going to do about this! how can they have left such an important part of the FOM so open for the company to mess with the crew pay.....when is the time recorded? brakes were never set. I assume it took them longer then 15 mins to do a post flight where did the hotel Van pick them up.......this section could be good for at least 20 more pages.
Subject: Fw: Reminder from US Airways FOM
"When ditching, remember the 'ON' and 'IN' times are the same."
- - US Airways FOM Ch. 5 (COMM), page 67 (middle)
Subject: Fw: Reminder from US Airways FOM
"When ditching, remember the 'ON' and 'IN' times are the same."
- - US Airways FOM Ch. 5 (COMM), page 67 (middle)
CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
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To represent the collective will of the employees. Period.I am sensing a slight bit of backlash....
So what is the purpose of unions?
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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Exactly.....How is ALPA doing?
CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
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If it's anything like their recent subcommittee investigation:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=120201
ALPA will tell you they're doing a swell job!
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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They are guilty of the exact same complaint they have of airline management....
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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Co-Pilot in Crash-Landing Thanks Union
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- In the first public statement from a pilot of US Airways flight 1549, first officer Jeff Skiles has thanked his union for assisting him in the aftermath of the flight's emergency landing on the Hudson River on Thursday.
"You all need to know that when you are at the weakest, most vulnerable time of your airline career, USAPA will be there to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you," Skiles said in a letter to fellow members of the U.S. Airline Pilots Association. A copy of the letter was obtained by TheStreet.com.
"I have incurred a debt to these people that can never be repaid. I can only say thank you, and tell you that you have made a difference in my life," wrote Skiles, 49, who joined US Airways in 1986.
Skiles handled the takeoff and was at the controls when the birds flew into the engine of the Airbus A320. At that point, he handed the flying off to the captain, Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger. "Your aircraft," said Skiles, according to the cockpit voice recorder. Then, with Sullenberger at the controls, Skiles attempted to restart the engines and began working through emergency landing procedures.
"On Thursday, many of fellow union members dropped everything, postponed their lives and rushed to New York to aid Sully, Donna, Sheila, Doreen and me in our time of greatest need," Skiles wrote, referring to Sullenberger and the three veteran flight attendants: Donna Dent, Shelia Dail and Doreen Welsh. All three have at least 26 years experience with US Airways: Welsh has 38 years experience.
"Before we even left the ferry dock where the boats dropped us off, Dan Britt (La Guardia vice chairman) was on the scene coordinating with the police," he wrote.
At the hospital, Skiles wrote, three union leaders and the USAPA attorney arrived to help out, and later, at the hotel, the union accident investigation team arrived quickly. Skiles personally thanks a dozen union leaders. One was by his side through his entire interview with the National Transportation Safety Board, he writes.
Additionally, a representative of the Air Line Pilots Association from Unitedrepresentative greeted his plane in Chicago and offered to drive Skiles wherever he needed to go. Last year, USAPA replaced ALPA, which has represented US Airways pilots since 1951, in a bitter union election.
Additionally, despite the conflict, shortly after the crash landing, union president Steve Bradford "received a personal email from ALPA president John Prater offering assistance and expressing concern for the well-being of our crew," according to a letter USAPA sent to its members.
In his letter, Skiles noted that so much had occurred following the accident that by Friday, he though the accident had occurred three or four days earlier.
"It was on the second day when I made a comment to Valerie Wells (a fellow pilot and USAPA committee member) about the accident being three or four days ago. She said, 'What do you mean? It was just yesterday afternoon.' The enormity of the USAPA effort had made me lose track of time. It hit me then. I looked around and realized that these people, all of them, had set aside their lives to rush to my aid.
"They didn't have to do this. They didn't want to spend their days in the LGA Marriott investigating an accident. They all dropped what they were doing and postponed their lives to help me," Skiles wrote. "I cannot tell you how deeply, deeply moved I am by this and how eternally grateful I am to each and every one of them."
- <LI class=byline>ByTed Reed, TheStreet.com Staff Reporter
- Monday January 19, 2009, 4:21 pm EST
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- In the first public statement from a pilot of US Airways flight 1549, first officer Jeff Skiles has thanked his union for assisting him in the aftermath of the flight's emergency landing on the Hudson River on Thursday.
"You all need to know that when you are at the weakest, most vulnerable time of your airline career, USAPA will be there to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you," Skiles said in a letter to fellow members of the U.S. Airline Pilots Association. A copy of the letter was obtained by TheStreet.com.
"I have incurred a debt to these people that can never be repaid. I can only say thank you, and tell you that you have made a difference in my life," wrote Skiles, 49, who joined US Airways in 1986.
Skiles handled the takeoff and was at the controls when the birds flew into the engine of the Airbus A320. At that point, he handed the flying off to the captain, Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger. "Your aircraft," said Skiles, according to the cockpit voice recorder. Then, with Sullenberger at the controls, Skiles attempted to restart the engines and began working through emergency landing procedures.
"On Thursday, many of fellow union members dropped everything, postponed their lives and rushed to New York to aid Sully, Donna, Sheila, Doreen and me in our time of greatest need," Skiles wrote, referring to Sullenberger and the three veteran flight attendants: Donna Dent, Shelia Dail and Doreen Welsh. All three have at least 26 years experience with US Airways: Welsh has 38 years experience.
"Before we even left the ferry dock where the boats dropped us off, Dan Britt (La Guardia vice chairman) was on the scene coordinating with the police," he wrote.
At the hospital, Skiles wrote, three union leaders and the USAPA attorney arrived to help out, and later, at the hotel, the union accident investigation team arrived quickly. Skiles personally thanks a dozen union leaders. One was by his side through his entire interview with the National Transportation Safety Board, he writes.
Additionally, a representative of the Air Line Pilots Association from Unitedrepresentative greeted his plane in Chicago and offered to drive Skiles wherever he needed to go. Last year, USAPA replaced ALPA, which has represented US Airways pilots since 1951, in a bitter union election.
Additionally, despite the conflict, shortly after the crash landing, union president Steve Bradford "received a personal email from ALPA president John Prater offering assistance and expressing concern for the well-being of our crew," according to a letter USAPA sent to its members.
In his letter, Skiles noted that so much had occurred following the accident that by Friday, he though the accident had occurred three or four days earlier.
"It was on the second day when I made a comment to Valerie Wells (a fellow pilot and USAPA committee member) about the accident being three or four days ago. She said, 'What do you mean? It was just yesterday afternoon.' The enormity of the USAPA effort had made me lose track of time. It hit me then. I looked around and realized that these people, all of them, had set aside their lives to rush to my aid.
"They didn't have to do this. They didn't want to spend their days in the LGA Marriott investigating an accident. They all dropped what they were doing and postponed their lives to help me," Skiles wrote. "I cannot tell you how deeply, deeply moved I am by this and how eternally grateful I am to each and every one of them."
JoeMerchant
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Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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JoeMerchant
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You side stepped the issue as usual......In the article YOU posted, the FO praised USAPA...USAPA is a union that fired ALPA and a union that in previous posts you said wasn't really a union....Now you are trying to use USAPA for your purposes.....
You are doing more harm to ALPA than you can imagine...and you have given up responding to those you call you on your BS.....That is telling....
Bringupthebird
Grumpy? Who-Me?
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CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
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Would it make you happy if everybody died so nobody could praise USAPA?
Get a life, Jacktard!
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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There are two aspects of unions or associations... the collective and the individual....
The posters on this thread who are speaking against the premise of unions playing a part of this Hudson event are doing so from the individual perspective... We got it... you feel unions let you down....
However, the Hudson landing has to do with the collective contribution of unions; the safety programs, seniority that limits favoritism and the lobbying of gov't for improved legislation.
We have all been proud of this crew for their professionalism. And the recognition this event has brought to our profession.....
So what is it about the profession? Who owns it, who defends it, who promotes it? These are hard questions to ask... Is it gov't (FAA)? The company? What have companies done in the last seven years to promote the Air Line Pilot Profession?
Or was the success of the Hudson landing due to the crews dedication to professionalism. (Sullenbergers passion for flying, to pursue glider flying.) And if so, who, what, how enabled the crew to be dedicated to professionalism...
Even after the strife and turmoil at USAIRways, there was still a history and structure that endured to present day that allowed the crew perform at peak...
Was Skiles thanking gov't or corporations?
Would airlines reduce safety if unions were absent?
How much dues money do unions use towards industry safety?
The posters on this thread who are speaking against the premise of unions playing a part of this Hudson event are doing so from the individual perspective... We got it... you feel unions let you down....
However, the Hudson landing has to do with the collective contribution of unions; the safety programs, seniority that limits favoritism and the lobbying of gov't for improved legislation.
We have all been proud of this crew for their professionalism. And the recognition this event has brought to our profession.....
So what is it about the profession? Who owns it, who defends it, who promotes it? These are hard questions to ask... Is it gov't (FAA)? The company? What have companies done in the last seven years to promote the Air Line Pilot Profession?
Or was the success of the Hudson landing due to the crews dedication to professionalism. (Sullenbergers passion for flying, to pursue glider flying.) And if so, who, what, how enabled the crew to be dedicated to professionalism...
Even after the strife and turmoil at USAIRways, there was still a history and structure that endured to present day that allowed the crew perform at peak...
Was Skiles thanking gov't or corporations?
Would airlines reduce safety if unions were absent?
How much dues money do unions use towards industry safety?
CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
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I'm sure he's indirectly thankful to both...especially Airbus.
Would it benefit the airline to take such a risk?
CFIT
Gimme your money
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No it doesn't, it has to do with a crew in an unfortunet position that had very few alternatives that did an excellent performance.
At the time union or no union, had nothing to do with it.
How pathetic it is when Rez has gone to great lengths to slam USAPA, but then ride their coat tails when it suits his Hitler like pursuent need to have everyone in "The Club".
I expected Rez to some how turn this situation into a union push, but this is sickening.
Last edited:
climbhappy
ex pat
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you can't BS a BSer:
safety: always a byproduct of the resulting CRM of a crew being paired together. I call BS
lobbying: well after all the lobbying, congress didn't change the laws regarding underfunded pensions or force the PBGC to require corps fully fund 100% all there their pension obligations and get accouting rules changed to reflect that those future obligations are a liability. Also, what happened to Free Airspace? still hasn't happened. why not lobby to open the strategic petrol reserve to airlines when oil spikes over a 100 for example. where's your lobbying? what the heck have you lobbied for and what have you produced? I call BS
senority: don't see a correlation between the skill of a career FO vis a vis a well trained 25 year old F-15 pilot just out of the airforce. secondly, senority is good for getting weekends off and determining upgrade opportunity only, not a slamdunk on the upgrade. I call BS.
at Airtran as an example, I have friends who have told me that many pass the upgrade because they fear the training dept. I have even heard and know 2 guys that were failed on a recurrent FO PC.
Senority is a custom, a norm established and though it might require an orderly promotion system, weak captains still get through because Unions give mutiple failures and get there job back etc, etc after the botched upgrade. I call BS on that
So, you allege that the 3 points above somehow resulted in a safe outcome to an inflight emergency? I still see no corellation between a guy who , by the seat of his pants , can determine the proper pitch attitude to get the best angle of glide in a 140,000 pound airplane, it has no bearing whatsoever.
safety: always a byproduct of the resulting CRM of a crew being paired together. I call BS
lobbying: well after all the lobbying, congress didn't change the laws regarding underfunded pensions or force the PBGC to require corps fully fund 100% all there their pension obligations and get accouting rules changed to reflect that those future obligations are a liability. Also, what happened to Free Airspace? still hasn't happened. why not lobby to open the strategic petrol reserve to airlines when oil spikes over a 100 for example. where's your lobbying? what the heck have you lobbied for and what have you produced? I call BS
senority: don't see a correlation between the skill of a career FO vis a vis a well trained 25 year old F-15 pilot just out of the airforce. secondly, senority is good for getting weekends off and determining upgrade opportunity only, not a slamdunk on the upgrade. I call BS.
at Airtran as an example, I have friends who have told me that many pass the upgrade because they fear the training dept. I have even heard and know 2 guys that were failed on a recurrent FO PC.
Senority is a custom, a norm established and though it might require an orderly promotion system, weak captains still get through because Unions give mutiple failures and get there job back etc, etc after the botched upgrade. I call BS on that
So, you allege that the 3 points above somehow resulted in a safe outcome to an inflight emergency? I still see no corellation between a guy who , by the seat of his pants , can determine the proper pitch attitude to get the best angle of glide in a 140,000 pound airplane, it has no bearing whatsoever.
Last edited:
CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
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...and has put pilots at a distinct disadvantage at their very own careers in today and tomorrow's volatile markets.
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