Millionaire can't travel because he refuses to present ID

[ivauir]

Whoa - the Government makes our liberty and wealth possible? First, our Government has been restricting our liberty far too much after September 11th and those of use who are wealthy have worked very hard for it. The government has not "given" me anything.

In my business I have a partner. He does nothing constructive, he wastes my time with lots of paperwork and takes nearly 50% of my revenue ( more than I get ). I work half the year to support this partner. If I cross this partner, or refuse to pay him his exhorbitant fees, he can deprive me of my liberty by putting me in jail. Yes, you already know - my partner is the US Government.

And before you say it, yes, we are considering relocating outside of the US.

Becasue taxes are SOOOO much less every where else

Gimme a break guys. This egomanic will do anything to be te center of attention. I just went to his web site and he thinks the Canadians are freer than the Americans are, I grew up in Canada and he needs an education.

Yes you can fake IDs and our security needs to improve, but it is not unreasonable to ask who people are. This moron is just being a pain in the A$$. Wasting everyone's time and suing my company for doing what the government says it must.

 

[luckydog]

I doubt there's anyone on this board stupid enough to believe the TSA does much to prevent terrorism in its current incarnation.

Never understimate the flightinfo crowd...

 

[atrdriver]

Amen!

Although I do disagree with alot of things the gov't does, this guy is being ridiculous. As a pilot who gets nervous every time the cockpit door is open during flight, I would be freaked out knowing just anyone could get on a flight without ID. What if one of these terrorist psychos made a reservation under a different name and just gets on a flight? There would be no way to track someone on a watch list or things like that. Know what I mean?

And of course the terrorist wouldn't have a false identity. Showing a drivers licence doesn't prove who you are, it just matches a name with a face. The right name with the right face? Who knows.

I think this guy is right. If the government is going to make laws they need to be public. In the past 4 years we have had a lot of our freedoms taken away, and some are trying to take away more of them, but the laws that do so are kept secret in the name of national security. There are obviously better ways to improve aviation security than what we do now, and it's time we started implementing them instead of feeling up women and taking away lighters.

 

[atrdriver]

You are right, the majority of the people out there really aren't who they say they are anyway. Maybe we just shouldn't ask. So next time I'm on your jumpseat I would appreciate you not ask me for MY ID. Just let me ride, no questions asked..

RIIIIIIIIGHT

I think it's pretty obvious that asking for a jumpseat is a totally different matter. You are asking for a favor from a flight crew, adn they have the right to attempt to determine your identity. But then again, just how hard do you think it would be for someone to fake a pilots cert, and medical to match a fake drivers licence? Not very hard at all if you ask me. But this guy isn't asking for a jumpseat, he paid the price for a ticket and wants to ride. Who he is shouldn't matter as long as he is searched and subject to the same scrutiny that other passengers go through.

 

[scoreboard]

Ygbsm

And of course the terrorist wouldn't have a false identity. Showing a drivers licence doesn't prove who you are, it just matches a name with a face. The right name with the right face? Who knows.

I think this guy is right. If the government is going to make laws they need to be public. In the past 4 years we have had a lot of our freedoms taken away, and some are trying to take away more of them, but the laws that do so are kept secret in the name of national security. There are obviously better ways to improve aviation security than what we do now, and it's time we started implementing them instead of feeling up women and taking away lighters.

Name one?

Freedom isn't free.

 

[cargoflyr69]

I'm glad that someone is taking a stand. I think that the picture ID debate is really just the tip of the iceberg with respect to post-9/11 security in America. I find it deplorable how fast the "Patriot Act" was signed into law and what ramifications it really has to our socity. How many of you have read what is all in in the act?

Every morning as I go through the crew line at the TSA check point I'm always surprised and ashamed how the travelling public responds to the agregiousness of the TSA personel. It seems the public will do what ever the TSA asks them to without question. The without question is what really bothers me. Homeland Security is indeed a dangerous entity with respect to our civil liberties. An agency must have checks and ballances to avoid absolute power.

Just Remember what Ben Frankin said over 200 years ago: "People who trade thier freedom for security deserve niether."

 

[smellthejeta]

freedoms taken away

Name one?

Freedom isn't free.

The general public cannot operate a Part 135 or Part 91 aircraft within 15 NM of DCA. By definition, this rule also prohibits said operators from landing at DCA. How's that for starters?

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Name one?

Freedom isn't free.

Why it may not be a "secret" law under the Patriot Act the government now has access to your medical and financial records without a search warrant. Why is the government interested in the common citizen's medical records?

Changing the subject a bit, under the recently passed Sarbanes Oaxley legislation the government now demands public traded companies are ethical and upfront (my words) with their financial dealings so as to avoid another Enron or MCI event. That is all well and good but why doesn't our own government do the same thing to themselves? Corrupt politicians telling potentially corrupt business people they shouldn't be doing wrong.

As some have alluded to, the government continues to increase its "authority" in more and more aspects of personal and business dealings - all under an alleged conservative POTUS. The analogy of the frog in hot water comes to mind. Put a frog in water and slowly turn up the heat and he'll eventually die, put in hot water right away and he'll attempt to jump out. I am concerned we're slowly being "cooked".

 

[smellthejeta]

You are right, the majority of the people out there really aren't who they say they are anyway. Maybe we just shouldn't ask. So next time I'm on your jumpseat I would appreciate you not ask me for MY ID. Just let me ride, no questions asked..

RIIIIIIIIGHT

I guess you are as naive as my mother is, aren't you? I hate to break the news to you, but I've got little reason to fake my identity to board an aircraft. However, if I was Mohammed Al-Qatar or something like that, and my name was on a government watch list, don't you think I'd make some efforts to get different identification to board an aircraft?

Re: the jumpseat. FAA medical, FAA pilot's license, company ID? I hate to tell you this, but prior to 9/11, I could get into your jumpseat with a little effort. Those FAA docs aren't exactly forge-proof. Do you actually know what an ID from Cape Air actually looks like? Eliminating the jumpseat for offliners has sucked, for sure, but until they get a centralized database up and running, I don't see how we can rely on "the creds" as adequate means of identification. If you want to believe that every piece of ID you see is legit, be my guest.

 

[scoreboard]

The general public cannot operate a Part 135 or Part 91 aircraft within 15 NM of DCA. By definition, this rule also prohibits said operators from landing at DCA. How's that for starters?

Not a freedom, it is a privalage to utilize the airspace over the US.

 

[scoreboard]

Why it may not be a "secret" law under the Patriot Act the government now has access to your medical and financial records without a search warrant. Why is the government interested in the common citizen's medical records?

Changing the subject a bit, under the recently passed Sarbanes Oaxley legislation the government now demands public traded companies are ethical and upfront (my words) with their financial dealings so as to avoid another Enron or MCI event. That is all well and good but why doesn't our own government do the same thing to themselves? Corrupt politicians telling potentially corrupt business people they shouldn't be doing wrong.

As some have alluded to, the government continues to increase its "authority" in more and more aspects of personal and business dealings - all under an alleged conservative POTUS. The analogy of the frog in hot water comes to mind. Put a frog in water and slowly turn up the heat and he'll eventually die, put in hot water right away and he'll attempt to jump out. I am concerned we're slowly being "cooked".

I will admit, secret laws are a bit absurd, how do you know what you don't know?

 

[scoreboard]

I guess you are as naive as my mother is, aren't you? I hate to break the news to you, but I've got little reason to fake my identity to board an aircraft. However, if I was Mohammed Al-Qatar or something like that, and my name was on a government watch list, don't you think I'd make some efforts to get different identification to board an aircraft?

Re: the jumpseat. FAA medical, FAA pilot's license, company ID? I hate to tell you this, but prior to 9/11, I could get into your jumpseat with a little effort. Those FAA docs aren't exactly forge-proof. Do you actually know what an ID from Cape Air actually looks like? Eliminating the jumpseat for offliners has sucked, for sure, but until they get a centralized database up and running, I don't see how we can rely on "the creds" as adequate means of identification. If you want to believe that every piece of ID you see is legit, be my guest.

Yet somehow when Mohamed or Abdul showed up at my cockpit door with and FAA 737 type using the name John Smith, i don't think I'd let em in, would you?

 

[smellthejeta]

Yet somehow when Mohamed or Abdul showed up at my cockpit door with and FAA 737 type using the name John Smith, i don't think I'd let em in, would you?

Um, no, but that was two seperate points I was making. The point I was making wrt the jumpseat is that if I (white male, no airline creds) showed up with a doctored medical, license, and Cape Air ID, could you spot that they were fake? It's a moot point these days, because cockpit access to offline personnel went by by with 9/11. But hey, since it's a privelege, I guess it's not a "freedom" that has been taken away since 9/11 and we should just sit back and smile because the government is protecting us.

In regards to your previous response to me about freedoms... If you want to get real technical, I suppose we do have only five freedoms: Freedom of speech, assembly, religion, press, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I suppose that you want to tell me that I should be thanking our government for the "privelege" of operating an aircraft in the US, without having to ask for prior permission? For the "privilege" of being able to drive when and where I want without government interference? If you're doing nothing more than making a technical argument, fine, but if you actually think the government acted properly in shutting down DCA, well, please don't run for congress.

 

[ackattacker]

I agree with this fellow's argument against hidden laws... we have given to many of our freedoms away without a fight. And it is not hard for an informed person to come up with dozens of examples. And if the laws are secret we might not even know the true extent of it....

With regard to showing ID to board an airliner, I do however think it is a sensible requirement, and one which the airliners had implemented on their own long before 9/11. What I object to is the TSA taking that ID information and doing god knows what with it.

It's like going into a bar and showing ID... sensible requirement to stop underage drinking. But what if the bouncer was inputing your name into a centralized secret government database which kept tabs on your drinking habits? Would that get you a bit more upset? Do you think the general public would knowingly vote for such a system? Our government is supposed to be representative. It can't be if we don't know what it's doing...

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Just when you think you've seen it all on AIRLINE

I was getting tired of the "drunk and disorderly passenger", or the usual, "which one of these fat guys is going to have to buy an extra seat" episodes.

 

[blzr]

I guess you are as naive as my mother is, aren't you? I hate to break the news to you, but I've got little reason to fake my identity to board an aircraft. However, if I was Mohammed Al-Qatar or something like that, and my name was on a government watch list, don't you think I'd make some efforts to get different identification to board an aircraft?

Re: the jumpseat. FAA medical, FAA pilot's license, company ID? I hate to tell you this, but prior to 9/11, I could get into your jumpseat with a little effort. Those FAA docs aren't exactly forge-proof. Do you actually know what an ID from Cape Air actually looks like? Eliminating the jumpseat for offliners has sucked, for sure, but until they get a centralized database up and running, I don't see how we can rely on "the creds" as adequate means of identification. If you want to believe that every piece of ID you see is legit, be my guest.

The point is...... You still want to see it.(some form of ID) The fact IS, if you read my first post on the thread, that the airline has the right to refuse ANYONE service. Also, when you go to the store and put something on your credit card you usually get asked fo ID. Im sure... no, positive, the this YAHOO put the ticket on his CREDIT CARD. Ergo... "may I please see your ID to verify your ID matches the name for which the ticket was purchased." If it would have been approached that way, then this whole thing would have been over before it really got started.

I don't think I would have brought up "The Law", as I wouldn't know where to find it there anyway. I'm sure most gate agents wouldn't know either. Also, I'm probably smarter than yoor MAMA, as I have a 5th grade education.

 

[smellthejeta]

The point is...... You still want to see it.(some form of ID) The fact IS, if you read my first post on the thread, that the airline has the right to refuse ANYONE service. Also, when you go to the store and put something on your credit card you usually get asked fo ID. Im sure... no, positive, the this YAHOO put the ticket on his CREDIT CARD. Ergo... "may I please see your ID to verify your ID matches the name for which the ticket was purchased." If it would have been approached that way, then this whole thing would have been over before it really got started.

Guess what smart guy... You don't have to see an agent to checkin anymore. Between internet checkin and self service kiosks, the *only* time I ever have had to show ID to a person are the TSA clowns at the security checkpoint who only want to verify that I am the person listed on my BP. Internet checkin? No ID. Self-service kiosk? Major credit card or Elite FF card. Still no ID.

The airline does *not* have the right to refuse service to anyone. There are protected classes of society against which an airline may *not* discriminate. Ethnic background is one of them. Once a ticket is purhcased (contract agreed to) tell me how an airline can get out of it. I'm not saying they can't, just tell me how. NW's CofC allows them to refuse service in certain instances, but does not allow them to deny passenger boarding for no cause. It also says that they have the right but shall not be obligated to refuse transportation to somebody who fails to present ID or fails to present ID that matches the boarding pass.

I'm well aware of the fact that the captain has absolute authority over his aircraft and may deny any passenger boarding. If somebody was giving me flack for no legitamate reason, I'd probably bump him and let the lawyers sort it out. However, by the terms of NW's CofC, the airline has to have sufficient cause to deny boarding.

BTW, there's no rule that says the person travelling must use a credit card in his/her own name. I have people buy tickets for me all the time on their credit cards, and I buy tickets for other people on my credit cards.

 

[blzr]

[/QUOTE]Guess what smart guy... You don't have to see an agent to checkin anymore.

Doesn't seem so in this case, now does it?

 

[smellthejeta]

Doesn't seem so in this case, now does it?

So what? You still don't have to see an agent to check in.

 

[JimNtexas]

The ID check provides no additional security at all. It is probably counter-productive overall.

It should be possible to pay cash for a ticket and ride an airliner from one point in the United States to another, no ID required. It would be fine to expect additonal physical screening by TSA, but that's it.

All the 9/11 hijackers had valid ID. The next major hijack will be accomplished by someone with ID.

ID has nothing to do with security.

Nothing in the U.S. Constitution gives the goverment the right to require internal passports for travel within the United States.