Millionaire can't travel because he refuses to present ID

[scoreboard]

Why it may not be a "secret" law under the Patriot Act the government now has access to your medical and financial records without a search warrant. Why is the government interested in the common citizen's medical records?

Changing the subject a bit, under the recently passed Sarbanes Oaxley legislation the government now demands public traded companies are ethical and upfront (my words) with their financial dealings so as to avoid another Enron or MCI event. That is all well and good but why doesn't our own government do the same thing to themselves? Corrupt politicians telling potentially corrupt business people they shouldn't be doing wrong.

As some have alluded to, the government continues to increase its "authority" in more and more aspects of personal and business dealings - all under an alleged conservative POTUS. The analogy of the frog in hot water comes to mind. Put a frog in water and slowly turn up the heat and he'll eventually die, put in hot water right away and he'll attempt to jump out. I am concerned we're slowly being "cooked".

I will admit, secret laws are a bit absurd, how do you know what you don't know?

 

[scoreboard]

I guess you are as naive as my mother is, aren't you? I hate to break the news to you, but I've got little reason to fake my identity to board an aircraft. However, if I was Mohammed Al-Qatar or something like that, and my name was on a government watch list, don't you think I'd make some efforts to get different identification to board an aircraft?

Re: the jumpseat. FAA medical, FAA pilot's license, company ID? I hate to tell you this, but prior to 9/11, I could get into your jumpseat with a little effort. Those FAA docs aren't exactly forge-proof. Do you actually know what an ID from Cape Air actually looks like? Eliminating the jumpseat for offliners has sucked, for sure, but until they get a centralized database up and running, I don't see how we can rely on "the creds" as adequate means of identification. If you want to believe that every piece of ID you see is legit, be my guest.

Yet somehow when Mohamed or Abdul showed up at my cockpit door with and FAA 737 type using the name John Smith, i don't think I'd let em in, would you?

 

[smellthejeta]

Yet somehow when Mohamed or Abdul showed up at my cockpit door with and FAA 737 type using the name John Smith, i don't think I'd let em in, would you?

Um, no, but that was two seperate points I was making. The point I was making wrt the jumpseat is that if I (white male, no airline creds) showed up with a doctored medical, license, and Cape Air ID, could you spot that they were fake? It's a moot point these days, because cockpit access to offline personnel went by by with 9/11. But hey, since it's a privelege, I guess it's not a "freedom" that has been taken away since 9/11 and we should just sit back and smile because the government is protecting us.

In regards to your previous response to me about freedoms... If you want to get real technical, I suppose we do have only five freedoms: Freedom of speech, assembly, religion, press, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I suppose that you want to tell me that I should be thanking our government for the "privelege" of operating an aircraft in the US, without having to ask for prior permission? For the "privilege" of being able to drive when and where I want without government interference? If you're doing nothing more than making a technical argument, fine, but if you actually think the government acted properly in shutting down DCA, well, please don't run for congress.

 

[ackattacker]

I agree with this fellow's argument against hidden laws... we have given to many of our freedoms away without a fight. And it is not hard for an informed person to come up with dozens of examples. And if the laws are secret we might not even know the true extent of it....

With regard to showing ID to board an airliner, I do however think it is a sensible requirement, and one which the airliners had implemented on their own long before 9/11. What I object to is the TSA taking that ID information and doing god knows what with it.

It's like going into a bar and showing ID... sensible requirement to stop underage drinking. But what if the bouncer was inputing your name into a centralized secret government database which kept tabs on your drinking habits? Would that get you a bit more upset? Do you think the general public would knowingly vote for such a system? Our government is supposed to be representative. It can't be if we don't know what it's doing...

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Just when you think you've seen it all on AIRLINE

I was getting tired of the "drunk and disorderly passenger", or the usual, "which one of these fat guys is going to have to buy an extra seat" episodes.

 

[blzr]

I guess you are as naive as my mother is, aren't you? I hate to break the news to you, but I've got little reason to fake my identity to board an aircraft. However, if I was Mohammed Al-Qatar or something like that, and my name was on a government watch list, don't you think I'd make some efforts to get different identification to board an aircraft?

Re: the jumpseat. FAA medical, FAA pilot's license, company ID? I hate to tell you this, but prior to 9/11, I could get into your jumpseat with a little effort. Those FAA docs aren't exactly forge-proof. Do you actually know what an ID from Cape Air actually looks like? Eliminating the jumpseat for offliners has sucked, for sure, but until they get a centralized database up and running, I don't see how we can rely on "the creds" as adequate means of identification. If you want to believe that every piece of ID you see is legit, be my guest.

The point is...... You still want to see it.(some form of ID) The fact IS, if you read my first post on the thread, that the airline has the right to refuse ANYONE service. Also, when you go to the store and put something on your credit card you usually get asked fo ID. Im sure... no, positive, the this YAHOO put the ticket on his CREDIT CARD. Ergo... "may I please see your ID to verify your ID matches the name for which the ticket was purchased." If it would have been approached that way, then this whole thing would have been over before it really got started.

I don't think I would have brought up "The Law", as I wouldn't know where to find it there anyway. I'm sure most gate agents wouldn't know either. Also, I'm probably smarter than yoor MAMA, as I have a 5th grade education.

 

[smellthejeta]

The point is...... You still want to see it.(some form of ID) The fact IS, if you read my first post on the thread, that the airline has the right to refuse ANYONE service. Also, when you go to the store and put something on your credit card you usually get asked fo ID. Im sure... no, positive, the this YAHOO put the ticket on his CREDIT CARD. Ergo... "may I please see your ID to verify your ID matches the name for which the ticket was purchased." If it would have been approached that way, then this whole thing would have been over before it really got started.

Guess what smart guy... You don't have to see an agent to checkin anymore. Between internet checkin and self service kiosks, the *only* time I ever have had to show ID to a person are the TSA clowns at the security checkpoint who only want to verify that I am the person listed on my BP. Internet checkin? No ID. Self-service kiosk? Major credit card or Elite FF card. Still no ID.

The airline does *not* have the right to refuse service to anyone. There are protected classes of society against which an airline may *not* discriminate. Ethnic background is one of them. Once a ticket is purhcased (contract agreed to) tell me how an airline can get out of it. I'm not saying they can't, just tell me how. NW's CofC allows them to refuse service in certain instances, but does not allow them to deny passenger boarding for no cause. It also says that they have the right but shall not be obligated to refuse transportation to somebody who fails to present ID or fails to present ID that matches the boarding pass.

I'm well aware of the fact that the captain has absolute authority over his aircraft and may deny any passenger boarding. If somebody was giving me flack for no legitamate reason, I'd probably bump him and let the lawyers sort it out. However, by the terms of NW's CofC, the airline has to have sufficient cause to deny boarding.

BTW, there's no rule that says the person travelling must use a credit card in his/her own name. I have people buy tickets for me all the time on their credit cards, and I buy tickets for other people on my credit cards.

 

[blzr]

[/QUOTE]Guess what smart guy... You don't have to see an agent to checkin anymore.

Doesn't seem so in this case, now does it?

 

[smellthejeta]

Doesn't seem so in this case, now does it?

So what? You still don't have to see an agent to check in.

 

[JimNtexas]

The ID check provides no additional security at all. It is probably counter-productive overall.

It should be possible to pay cash for a ticket and ride an airliner from one point in the United States to another, no ID required. It would be fine to expect additonal physical screening by TSA, but that's it.

All the 9/11 hijackers had valid ID. The next major hijack will be accomplished by someone with ID.

ID has nothing to do with security.

Nothing in the U.S. Constitution gives the goverment the right to require internal passports for travel within the United States.

 

[bafanguy]

Good for him.

Getting back to the original story:

One can only make the big, splashy "stand on principle" if he has the money to insulate himself from the consequences of making the big, splashy "stand on principle".

The rest of us just bend over...and take it.

 

[Corona]

Getting back to the original story:

One can only make the big, splashy "stand on principle" if he has the money to insulate himself from the consequences of making the big, splashy "stand on principle".

The rest of us just bend over...and take it.

This is true. Makes you wonder if our fearless leaders in Washington acutally know what they are doing.

JimNTexas has the point: ID is not security. Previous posts have mentioned profiling, which has gotten a bad rap from racist idiot law enforcement in certain US cities. In fact, it is the only way we can stop the hijackers. That, and guns in the cockpit.

Remember Mr Reid, the infamous AA "shoe bomber"? He was allowed to fly on El Al...in a window seat, with an armed agent between him and the aisle. The Israelis knew...profile, profile, profile.

C

 

[prpjt]

The gate agent in the original article may have provided bad info re. the law. It is however Southwest Airlines right to refuse boarding. Page 8 of their contract for carriage, that ANY passenger, by default, agrees to when purchasing a ticket. I'll paraphrase:

Southwest may deny boarding, or remove any passenger for the following:

C. Failure to show a government issued ID.

These are the terms of the contract he agreed to when he purchased the ticket. He was unwilling to perform and was denied boarding. All within SW's rights.

I think the gate agent was incorrect in "It's the law"

The carrier has the right to check ID, but is not obligated to do so. Again, in the Contract for Carriage.