midwest/frontier going to become 1 airline

[CA1900]

They already are one airline, if not in name yet.

I had a ticket a few weeks ago on Frontier, from Seattle to Denver. A Republic ERJ showed up, in Midwest paint.

 

[LearLove]

Hey RAH dudes, what is the ave. fuel burn rate for the E-170 at cruise?

4000 to 5000 lbs hour depending on alt and speed. high 30's to fl410 and M0.78(or less) = 4000 lbs/hour, high 20's to mid 30's and faster (.80 to .82) and its is up around 5000.

 

[jws717]

4000 to 5000 lbs hour depending on alt and speed. high 30's to fl410 and M0.78(or less) = 4000 lbs/hour, high 20's to mid 30's and faster (.80 to .82) and its is up around 5000.

That thing chugs like sailor.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

That thing chugs like sailor.

Not many of us fly it that fast anymore. No need to. Thus we save a substantial amount on fuel burn. Try to anyway.

 

[Popeye0537]

4000 to 5000 lbs hour depending on alt and speed. high 30's to fl410 and M0.78(or less) = 4000 lbs/hour, high 20's to mid 30's and faster (.80 to .82) and its is up around 5000.

Thats a little high lear, average is 1600 to 1900 a side for a given speed. Average alt flown is mid to high 30's.
Those #'s are more in line with the 190.

 

[Jetjockey]

4000 to 5000 lbs hour depending on alt and speed. high 30's to fl410 and M0.78(or less) = 4000 lbs/hour, high 20's to mid 30's and faster (.80 to .82) and its is up around 5000.

Very close to a 737 NG, and I'm talking a fully loaded 800 or 900 with 175 pax. I thought that jungle jet would be more efficient.

 

[Habib]

What is the cost from the factory of the E190 vs. the 737-800?

 

[AnimalTale]

What is the cost from the factory of the E190 vs. the 737-800?

WHO CARES??

When u have "passive" SLAVE LABOR, it is cheaper to fly the EMBs...

I guarantee BB is going to have an ALL EMB fleet pretty soon.. He will DECLARE FORCE MAJEURE, dissolve the semi-livable FAPA contract!!! I know, I know Fapa pilots are the lowest CASM in the industry<----------Keep believing this FAPA. Look around you all of our flying is being done by LOW WAGE EMB guys..

I would be happy, if at least, the RAH guys were flying the EMB for better wages and conditions, but it is not so...At least they are getting NICE, NEW SHINEY Airplanes that are flying other people's routes,,,GOOD JOB!!! What a successful and ambitious group you are...LEECHES!!!

CYA

 

[GFunk20]

Oh well, atleast you saved your tails.

 

[AnimalTale]

Oh well, atleast you saved your tails.

SWA was never an airline I applied to or wanted to fly for (just facts, not to piss anyone off).. However, I was the minority at F9 that was PRO SWA during this whole RAH vs. SWA.. Hands down SWA would have been a better deal.

Actually, I do apologize for being a little "hard" on the RAH guys. They have no choice in the matter of who buys what. They are just pawns flying multi-million dollar aircraft for peanut wages and mediocre workrules. I just wish they would sally up and DEMAND what they are worth..

CYA

 

[V1cutsrfun]

Don't be surprised if it becomes Bryan Bedford Airlines with his face on the tails.

Oh.. it will be his picture ..... His picture Spank'n the Monkey thats already on the tail....

V1


Lynx is a class act....

 

[Flying Illini]

Actually, I do apologize for being a little "hard" on the RAH guys. They have no choice in the matter of who buys what. They are just pawns flying multi-million dollar aircraft for peanut wages and mediocre workrules. I just wish they would sally up and DEMAND what they are worth..

CYA

Which we did back in 2003. The airline started changing in 2009. Our contract expired in Oct. 2007. We opened negotiations in April 2007. So, on an expired contract all of these changes have been made. You can't truly believe for one second that we are happily sitting on our thumbs? Negotiations have slowed to a crawl for the moment. The main reason is so we can get the SLI complete and then all of the airlines can take part in these negotiations. What we had accomplished at the table prior to the acquisitions has all been tossed out the window. We're starting over from square one because RAH is an entirely different airline than it was 18 months ago and the new contract desperately needs to reflect that.

 

[AnimalTale]

Which we did back in 2003. The airline started changing in 2009. Our contract expired in Oct. 2007. We opened negotiations in April 2007. So, on an expired contract all of these changes have been made. You can't truly believe for one second that we are happily sitting on our thumbs? Negotiations have slowed to a crawl for the moment. The main reason is so we can get the SLI complete and then all of the airlines can take part in these negotiations. What we had accomplished at the table prior to the acquisitions has all been tossed out the window. We're starting over from square one because RAH is an entirely different airline than it was 18 months ago and the new contract desperately needs to reflect that.

I dont know what you did back in 2003 but in 2009 your contract is a shame. I am sorry I am not impressed with your pay or work rules.

Also, I have notice a few RAH pilots with fangs exposed, chomping at the bit to fly the AIRBUS at all costs. I hope it is not true but I have heard if BEDFORD offered RAH E190 rates to RAH PILOTS to fly the Airbus, the RAH pilots will take it with pleasure.<--------I HOPE IT IS NOT TRUE.

CYA

 

[spiffomatic]

I dont know what you did back in 2003 but in 2009 your contract is a shame. I am sorry I am not impressed with your pay or work rules.

Also, I have notice a few RAH pilots with fangs exposed, chomping at the bit to fly the AIRBUS at all costs. I hope it is not true but I have heard if BEDFORD offered RAH E190 rates to RAH PILOTS to fly the Airbus, the RAH pilots will take it with pleasure.<--------I HOPE IT IS NOT TRUE.

CYA

Well, with comments like that, and your tag line, it seems like you're more interested in inciting animosity between groups. I'm not going to try to speak for our whole pilot group, but the number of people who would be interested in flying the Airbus for our current junk wages is somewhere near zero. 99% of us are just hoping for something near an amicable integration... not sure how likely that is, but we can all dream... By the way, no one here is impressed with our current contract pay or work rules either... if you want to know about 2003, well, CHQ was a 50 seat and less company flying codeshare for a few partners... around 300-350 or so of our current pilots were even around then to vote on it and - given the state of things at the time, it apparently seemed like a reasonable contract - albeit with some big loopholes and overlooked issues in hindsight - again, not unlike some other contracts within this new RAH.

I look forward to working with you in the future, however things shake out, and perhaps consider getting rid of that dumb tagline, posted by someone apparently falling under our 1% rule (every company has a few).

 

[UnstableAviator]

The only place the RAH kool-aid even exists is on these message boards. In reality, nearly all of us know our CBA sucks, our work rules suck, and our management is treating us and our newly acquired pilot groups like crap. People at RAH are pissed, especially since to avoid training costs the company COMPLETELY DISREGARDS seniority with language like "displacement vacancy".

Eventually it will come to a strike, and we RAH pilots need to be prepared financially and mentally to get what we deserve. I worked 5+ years at this place and watched it grow from 50 seat no-name operator to the most hated airline in the industry. Its quite frankly embarrassing and I want to fix it as much as anybody else.

BTW....F*(K the RLA.

 

[AnimalTale]

Well, with comments like that, and your tag line, it seems like you're more interested in inciting animosity between groups. I'm not going to try to speak for our whole pilot group, but the number of people who would be interested in flying the Airbus for our current junk wages is somewhere near zero. 99% of us are just hoping for something near an amicable integration... not sure how likely that is, but we can all dream... By the way, no one here is impressed with our current contract pay or work rules either... if you want to know about 2003, well, CHQ was a 50 seat and less company flying codeshare for a few partners... around 300-350 or so of our current pilots were even around then to vote on it and - given the state of things at the time, it apparently seemed like a reasonable contract - albeit with some big loopholes and overlooked issues in hindsight - again, not unlike some other contracts within this new RAH.

I look forward to working with you in the future, however things shake out, and perhaps consider getting rid of that dumb tagline, posted by someone apparently falling under our 1% rule (every company has a few).

FAIR Enough. Just remember, EASY COME, EASY GO. We need to not only DEMAND the best for our work groups, WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THE MIDWEST GUYS.<-------My confusion with the MIDWEST GUYS is why the hell would the SENIOR MIDWEST guys continue to fly when their mngmt axed 3/4 of their pilot workforce.. Were they selfish or were they blind and thought maybe things will get better? I know if I was a senior cat and mngmt started "furloughing" 3/4 of our workforce, I would be more prone to STOP working and Strike..

Anyhow, I really feel that we need to take care of ALL the Midwest guys. Especially when RAH is flying the routes and colors. EASY COME; EASY GO (KARMA)..

On a side note. POPEYE is a complete idiot. That Tag line is a reminder and a wake up call that there still are some IDIOTS and SELFISH "PUNKS" amongst us.

CYA

 

[AnimalTale]

The only place the RAH kool-aid even exists is on these message boards. In reality, nearly all of us know our CBA sucks, our work rules suck, and our management is treating us and our newly acquired pilot groups like crap. People at RAH are pissed, especially since to avoid training costs the company COMPLETELY DISREGARDS seniority with language like "displacement vacancy".

Eventually it will come to a strike, and we RAH pilots need to be prepared financially and mentally to get what we deserve. I worked 5+ years at this place and watched it grow from 50 seat no-name operator to the most hated airline in the industry. Its quite frankly embarrassing and I want to fix it as much as anybody else.

BTW....F*(K the RLA.

Thank you.

Cya

 

[Vegaspilot99]

The only place the RAH kool-aid even exists is on these message boards. In reality, nearly all of us know our CBA sucks, our work rules suck, and our management is treating us and our newly acquired pilot groups like crap. People at RAH are pissed, especially since to avoid training costs the company COMPLETELY DISREGARDS seniority with language like "displacement vacancy".

Eventually it will come to a strike, and we RAH pilots need to be prepared financially and mentally to get what we deserve. I worked 5+ years at this place and watched it grow from 50 seat no-name operator to the most hated airline in the industry. Its quite frankly embarrassing and I want to fix it as much as anybody else.

BTW....F*(K the RLA.

Good to see.

 

[CitationLover]

FAIR Enough. Just remember, EASY COME, EASY GO. We need to not only DEMAND the best for our work groups, WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THE MIDWEST GUYS.<-------My confusion with the MIDWEST GUYS is why the hell would the SENIOR MIDWEST guys continue to fly when their mngmt axed 3/4 of their pilot workforce.. Were they selfish or were they blind and thought maybe things will get better? I know if I was a senior cat and mngmt started "furloughing" 3/4 of our workforce, I would be more prone to STOP working and Strike..

Anyhow, I really feel that we need to take care of ALL the Midwest guys. Especially when RAH is flying the routes and colors. EASY COME; EASY GO (KARMA)..

On a side note. POPEYE is a complete idiot. That Tag line is a reminder and a wake up call that there still are some IDIOTS and SELFISH "PUNKS" amongst us.

CYA

Several were asked that on the MEH ALPA website. It was mostly a "nothing we can do about it" defense on their part.

 

[AnimalTale]

Several were asked that on the MEH ALPA website. It was mostly a "nothing we can do about it" defense on their part.

I question the MEH senior pilots' action a lot. Then I say to myself, "ALPA did not object or say not to fly while 3/4 of the pilot group got booted." After I say this to myself, I realize the reason for the downward spiral of our quality careers or what once was quality is because we have ni-eve and hungry pilots that will do anything to keep flying and not question CHARLATAN motives from our managers.

Shame on us. On the same note, our senior F9 pilots took jobs flying 737s for 50k/yr....Hmmmmmmm..I just hope these guys arent gonna represent us.

CYA

 

[AnimalTale]

Several were asked that on the MEH ALPA website. It was mostly a "nothing we can do about it" defense on their part.

Well now look, they too are furloughed.

CYA

 

[Flying Illini]

I dont know what you did back in 2003 but in 2009 your contract is a shame. I am sorry I am not impressed with your pay or work rules.

Also, I have notice a few RAH pilots with fangs exposed, chomping at the bit to fly the AIRBUS at all costs. I hope it is not true but I have heard if BEDFORD offered RAH E190 rates to RAH PILOTS to fly the Airbus, the RAH pilots will take it with pleasure.<--------I HOPE IT IS NOT TRUE.

CYA

Well, yeah. That's not surprising at all. How many pilots at ANY company are happy with a 6.5yr old contract? No one here. Oh, and we didn't do ANYTHING in 2003 to impress you. At the time, as was mentioned before, RAH wasn't even a twinkle in CHQ's eye and the 2003 contract was a reflection of that. Who would have thought that we needed a contract to address the issues that we face today? Not you, not me, not anybody. So here we sit. Over 2.5yrs since our contract expired and we are working on better. Now, had we been fortunate and only had a 1yr negotiation process with the company, our current contract would be woefully inadequate (again) for what RAH has become. It's clear that RAH management really had no idea that all of this was going to happen either, otherwise they WOULD have pushed for a quick TA and new contract.

RAH will never be able to impress you and that's fine. Personally, I'm not impressed either but we, as a pilot group (that includes YOU) are at a crossroads and the only way to improve things is to work together for a common goal. You're either with us or against us. Mgmt is giving us enough resistance, we don't need it from the pilots as well. Divided we fall, and all that jazz.

Speaking of that, don't you think that some of these "rumors" that you speak of could just be misinformation planted by mgmt? Your claim that RAH pilots are clammoring to fly the Airbus is laughable. I have flown with 2 (TWO!!) pilots who have made no secret of the fact that they would definitely like to fly the airbus and they both have over 15yrs at this company. How many years do you have at F9? However, no one has said anything remotely close to "wanting to fly the airbus for 190 rates" or 145 rates or 135 rates for that matter. It doesn't help anyone if you spread unconfirmed information. All that does is breed hate, contempt and division. All bad things that will really hurt us when it comes time to vote "yea" or "nay" to the strike vote.

 

[Flying Illini]

FAIR Enough. Just remember, EASY COME, EASY GO. We need to not only DEMAND the best for our work groups, WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THE MIDWEST GUYS.<-------My confusion with the MIDWEST GUYS is why the hell would the SENIOR MIDWEST guys continue to fly when their mngmt axed 3/4 of their pilot workforce.. Were they selfish or were they blind and thought maybe things will get better? I know if I was a senior cat and mngmt started "furloughing" 3/4 of our workforce, I would be more prone to STOP working and Strike..

Anyhow, I really feel that we need to take care of ALL the Midwest guys. Especially when RAH is flying the routes and colors. EASY COME; EASY GO (KARMA)..

On a side note. POPEYE is a complete idiot. That Tag line is a reminder and a wake up call that there still are some IDIOTS and SELFISH "PUNKS" amongst us.

CYA

So it would appear your beef is with the YX pilots. Take it out on them. We aren't happy about how this stuff went down and quite frankly, I'm surprised they all didn't walk. If it's struck work, we can't fly it. Keep in mind, RAH didn't purchase YX until all of the a/c were to be returned to Boeing. The airline was already dead when RAH signed on the dotted line. Barring someone stepping in, the colors and the cookies would currently be a thing of the past (before anyone gets their blood pressure up, no, I'm not saying that "we saved them." That's not anywhere close to what happened and if anyone says so that just demonstrates an amazingly ignorant take on the whole situation. Feel free to tell them so, I have.). It's only a matter of time before the colors disappear, who knows if BB will keep the cookies, he seems to like them.

The YX guys, once the SLI is complete in May or earlier, will be off to training and back to work. Not sure how else they can be taken care of.


Sure there are "still" idiots out there. This is Flightinfo.com. This place THRIVES on idiots. Every airline has them and if you don't think so, then the idiot is you. Take a mature stance and ignore folks like that. That guy is probably thrilled that he got under your skin and you just keep playing to him. When you meet a new pilot, to you recite your signature line? If not, then it's probably not something to keep as your identifying quote. Just sayin.'

 

[AnimalTale]

So it would appear your beef is with the YX pilots. Take it out on them. We aren't happy about how this stuff went down and quite frankly, I'm surprised they all didn't walk. If it's struck work, we can't fly it. Keep in mind, RAH didn't purchase YX until all of the a/c were to be returned to Boeing. The airline was already dead when RAH signed on the dotted line. Barring someone stepping in, the colors and the cookies would currently be a thing of the past (before anyone gets their blood pressure up, no, I'm not saying that "we saved them." That's not anywhere close to what happened and if anyone says so that just demonstrates an amazingly ignorant take on the whole situation. Feel free to tell them so, I have.). It's only a matter of time before the colors disappear, who knows if BB will keep the cookies, he seems to like them.

The YX guys, once the SLI is complete in May or earlier, will be off to training and back to work. Not sure how else they can be taken care of.


Sure there are "still" idiots out there. This is Flightinfo.com. This place THRIVES on idiots. Every airline has them and if you don't think so, then the idiot is you. Take a mature stance and ignore folks like that. That guy is probably thrilled that he got under your skin and you just keep playing to him. When you meet a new pilot, to you recite your signature line? If not, then it's probably not something to keep as your identifying quote. Just sayin.'

You have wisdom beyond your years, young man! I hope you will not accept anything less than what you deserve. With your wise disposition, you are truly under paid.

CYA

 

[Flying Illini]

You have wisdom beyond your years, young man! I hope you will not accept anything less than what you deserve. With your wise disposition, you are truly under paid.

CYA

Just b/c we work for a regional doesn't mean we're all spiky-haired, backpack wearing, ipod listening 23yr olds that don't know what it means and how to be a professional.

 

[AnimalTale]

Just b/c we work for a regional doesn't mean we're all spiky-haired, backpack wearing, ipod listening 23yr olds that don't know what it means and how to be a professional.

On the radio, you guys sure sound like you are flying DC10s

Even in the terminal Republic guys always have their hats on, VERY SHARP

The only thing is; the pay and work rules are not at par to what you DESERVE and are worth.

You guys respect and honor BB and his company. You represent him well. He just does not know how good he has it.


CYA

 

[CitationLover]

So it would appear your beef is with the YX pilots. Take it out on them. We aren't happy about how this stuff went down and quite frankly, I'm surprised they all didn't walk. If it's struck work, we can't fly it. Keep in mind, RAH didn't purchase YX until all of the a/c were to be returned to Boeing. The airline was already dead when RAH signed on the dotted line. Barring someone stepping in, the colors and the cookies would currently be a thing of the past (before anyone gets their blood pressure up, no, I'm not saying that "we saved them." That's not anywhere close to what happened and if anyone says so that just demonstrates an amazingly ignorant take on the whole situation. Feel free to tell them so, I have.). It's only a matter of time before the colors disappear, who knows if BB will keep the cookies, he seems to like them.

Revisionist history. YX pilots turned down a proposal from our management to fly our own EMB 190's at your crappy rates. We've made our bed, we'll sleep in it. At least we have that integrity.

The airline BY DESIGN was dead. Why did our CEO offer YOUR payrates to us knowing full well we'd turn them down? This fix was in from the beginning.

The YX guys, once the SLI is complete in May or earlier, will be off to training and back to work. Not sure how else they can be taken care of.

Sure there are "still" idiots out there. This is Flightinfo.com. This place THRIVES on idiots. Every airline has them and if you don't think so, then the idiot is you. Take a mature stance and ignore folks like that. That guy is probably thrilled that he got under your skin and you just keep playing to him. When you meet a new pilot, to you recite your signature line? If not, then it's probably not something to keep as your identifying quote. Just sayin.'

Oh joy to come back to $37/hr. A 50-75% pay cut for most FO's and massive pay cut for CA's. But look where the integrity of RAH's MEC lies.........Flying an MEL'd airplane to skirt around their weak payrate language.

 

[Propsync]

Revisionist history. YX pilots turned down a proposal from our management to fly our own EMB 190's at your crappy rates. We've made our bed, we'll sleep in it. At least we have that integrity.

The airline BY DESIGN was dead. Why did our CEO offer YOUR payrates to us knowing full well we'd turn them down? This fix was in from the beginning.

Oh joy to come back to $37/hr. A 50-75% pay cut for most FO's and massive pay cut for CA's. But look where the integrity of RAH's MEC lies.........Flying an MEL'd airplane to skirt around their weak payrate language.

CL, sometimes we agree, sometimes not. Your post has both. Even if you agreed to the payrates, would it really have changed the outcome? To say the airline was dead would defeat all those that said 'We never declared CH.11'. On the converse, the SENIOR did get full pay to the last day at the expense of the junior. I agree, you were fixed from the start. Hindsight being what it is, Midwest pilots should have walked the day the proposed payrates were announced. All they did was hang around to 'shutdown' and will come back to the same payates they said no to earlier. They stood ground and accomplished nothing. History will never remember the MEC saying no to those payrates.

 

[Flying Illini]

Revisionist history. YX pilots turned down a proposal from our management to fly our own EMB 190's at your crappy rates. We've made our bed, we'll sleep in it. At least we have that integrity.

The airline BY DESIGN was dead. Why did our CEO offer YOUR payrates to us knowing full well we'd turn them down? This fix was in from the beginning.




Oh joy to come back to $37/hr. A 50-75% pay cut for most FO's and massive pay cut for CA's. But look where the integrity of RAH's MEC lies.........Flying an MEL'd airplane to skirt around their weak payrate language.

I absolutely agree. Just remember, your beef is with YX mgmt and RAH management, not the pilots.

Oh, and as for the "deferred seat" in the 190's. That's a very sore subject between the pilots and the MEC. We're all pissed about it. I don't know how we can lose the grievance but if there's a way, the IBT will find it.

 

[dougdrvr]

Oh, and as for the "deferred seat" in the 190's. That's a very sore subject between the pilots and the MEC. We're all pissed about it. I don't know how we can lose the grievance but if there's a way, the IBT will find it.

So like everyone keeps saying to the YX guys, "Why don't you just strike?"

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.