midwest/frontier going to become 1 airline

[707eng]

Their entitlement is amazing. I believe the captains at Republic will in for a shock, after integration. The few Republic FO’s I’ve meet seem to be looking for something better. They went to Republic knowing it was nothing more than a stepping stone.

 

[chqflyer]

No matter how the SLI works out, it will be tied up in court for years like the US/AWA deal. Once the dust settles, how about a permanent fence on the Airbuses until all current F9 pilots hold a captain seat? Then start allowing current RAH pilots to interview for available FO slots on the bus. It really seems like the only fair way to go without the massive windfall for RAH pilots.

 

[Bluestreak]

No matter how the SLI works out, it will be tied up in court for years like the US/AWA deal. Once the dust settles, how about a permanent fence on the Airbuses until all current F9 pilots hold a captain seat? Then start allowing current RAH pilots to interview for available FO slots on the bus. It really seems like the only fair way to go without the massive windfall for RAH pilots.

Hey,how about CHQ pilots interview for RW 170 slots ,hmmm ? Oh,and if F9 has furloughs,you go straight to the street-no displacing a CHQ/RW/S5 guy-isn't that how one list works ? If the Airbus goes bye-bye,so do the crews,is that what you want ? They can interview for a CHQ 145 F/O slot.It's only fair,right ? I can't work there,you can't work here.Only fair,hmm ?

 

[chqflyer]

Hey,how about CHQ pilots interview for RW 170 slots ,hmmm ? Oh,and if F9 has furloughs,you go straight to the street-no displacing a CHQ/RW/S5 guy-isn't that how one list works ? If the Airbus goes bye-bye,so do the crews,is that what you want ? They can interview for a CHQ 145 F/O slot.It's only fair,right ? I can't work there,you can't work here.Only fair,hmm ?

Whoa there guy, I'm an RAH pilot, not an F9 pilot. I just don't feel entitled to jump into an airbus no matter how the sli shakes out. No matter how you look at it, RAH is and always will be a regional airline. That is the corporate culture here and it will never change. To try and force our culture onto a real airline will simply not work. So I think the single list with fences is probably the most apropriate way to go. Just my opinion, it has about the same value as the dog-log I stepped on this morning.

 

[OpenClimb]

Hey,how about CHQ pilots interview for RW 170 slots ,hmmm ? Oh,and if F9 has furloughs,you go straight to the street-no displacing a CHQ/RW/S5 guy-isn't that how one list works ? If the Airbus goes bye-bye,so do the crews,is that what you want ? They can interview for a CHQ 145 F/O slot.It's only fair,right ? I can't work there,you can't work here.Only fair,hmm ?

I can't speak for anyone but myself. As a point of reference, I'll say that I'm an F9 FO with about 6 years seniority at F9.

I'd be great with what you've described above. I have no desire to fly under the RAH work rules or pay rates. If the F9 Airbus go away, I'm perfectly happy fending for myself in finding alternate employment.

If what you've described is what Republic pilots are looking for, then you've got my vote.

 

[YetAnother]

If the F9 Airbus go away, I'm perfectly happy fending for myself in finding alternate employment.

I doubt the Midwest guys feel the same way.

 

[Wesb737fo]

No dog in this fight, but, under what scenario would you see the F9 bus go away. It's the only a/c in the RAH " Branded " flying that has a competitive cost structure with SWA and AAI. Unless someone is lying about the numbers they published in their SEC filings.

 

[YetAnother]

Here is a cut and paste of a remark from Some Guy on All Things F9:

According to Republic, most of the Airbus leases expire between 2013-2017, so they have at least three more years (3 are on longer leases).

It would make no sense for Bedford to replace Frontier's aircraft with smaller E190s, and Embraer doesn't have anything bigger. He told industry analysts in December that Republic would refleet the Airbuses either with new Airbuses, Boeing 737-700/800s, or Bombardier CS300s, and that the announcement would come this quarter. But maybe you are right. Maybe Bedford lied.

Regardless of whether any of it is factual, it does allow one to understand the importance of a single seniority list with no fences. IF BB decided to refleet the Airbuses, who's to say he wouldn't put the new aircraft on a different certificate with 'Frontier' colors? New airplanes, cheaper crews.

The best way to protect against that is to enforce a single seniority list, no fences, and hope the arbitrator gives everyone a fair shakeout. If F9 pilots were fenced out of the rest of RAH, the single seniority list would mean nothing (At the very least it provides job security for F9 pilots in the event of furlough/fleet reduction). Without a single seniority list with no fences, there would be no motivation for BB to keep the branded flying at F9 (why pay a senior F9er to fly something he can put with an underpaid RAH employee in F9 colors?). It's already happened at YX. And now YXers will be flying RAH aircraft at RAH wages. The same thing could happen to F9ers.

All the employees that comprise what is now RAH (F9/YX/+) need to work together to improve the wages and work rules there across the board. If F9 and YX worked with their new RAH brothers and sisters (you may not like them but it looks like they're now family), they could collectively improve pay on ALL of the airframes. This would result in livable wages for everyone on the list, and a form of pay/job protection for anyone who could be downgraded from the Airbus in the future; whether that came from fleet reduction/transition, furloughed F9 guys and gals being recalled with no Airbus available in the bid, etc.

Everyone needs to check their egos at the door, and work together as one team to improve pay and QOL at the reverend's expense. One large unified pilot group is going to be MUCH better than a bunch of small, whining, bickering pilot groups that fight with each other over the same piece of pie instead of demanding a larger portion of the pie TOGETHER.

The way I see it? F9 people are worried about maintaining the status quo - at their peril. YX people are appropriately bitter about their situation, but the SLI will eventually happen and they will have jobs. Having a job won't mean anything though, unless the pay is better on all the airframes (so everyone has a livable wage regardless of where they fall on the seniority list after arbitration). 'Original' RAH guys are trying to improve their pay and quality of life. Right now they look at the Frontier pay/lifestyle and want the same. Work to get it for them on their current airframes and they will be content flying what they already are.. and for that matter, F9ers and YXers might not mind flying a 190 (especially if it means being based closer to home). But only IF the pay is good across the board.

OR none of this matters and Southwest and AirTran will eat you alive. If the pay doesn't improve at RAH with their next contract, I hope they do. Maybe it will open up some decent paying pilot positions at Southwest.

 

[ricj41]

Two things.
First you are assuming that the fence language that fapa is asking for would encompasse only 3 specific airplanes. The airbus 318, 319 and 320. Why are you assuming that? Our current scope language was changed to allow republic pilots to fly the e190s. It was also changed to include the 737, 321, 757 and any other aircraft along those weights to be flown by frontier pilots on the frontier airlines seniority list. The fence language would include those a/c along with any future airplanes above a certain takeoff weight.
Secondly, You are assuming that because certain a/c are fenced off for only frontier pilots that they would thus be excluded from flying other aircraft. Were is your evidence for that. Not that I feel I should get a captain seat on a 190.
IF BB wants to get rid off all of the airbuses and similar sized aircraft to try and get around a future fence so that he can pay pilots less is stupid. An all 190 fleet airline would be doomed for failure and he knows that. I wouldn't be surprised to see an anoucement for more airbusses in the coming months. If the airbus fleet doesn't grow then both frontier and midwest will fail. Along with BB. No doubt he would be fired if his huge gamble doesn't pay off.

 

[ultrarunner]

What is the status of the SLI. Are talks even going on between the groups at all?