Midwest Flying

[145 Lawndart]

Quality costs...If you want cheap go get Mesa!

 

[Victor Meldrew]

Quality costs...If you want cheap go get Mesa!

Ask UAL how that works (twice now).

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

Ask UAL how that works (twice now).

you get what you paid for

 

[GOULET!]

you get what you paid for

That is exactly what the employee's at Skyway are afraid of...going with the dirt cheap lowest bidder who's quality is no where near that of Skyway and Midwest.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Haven't heard any rumors for a few days! Any news???

 

[airplane wizard]

Maybe midex should get Q400's

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

Maybe midex should get Q400's

They are as fast as the DO328 or nearly as slow I should say. I would imagine quite a bit more efficient too and cary twice as many pax. Theres a novel idea

 

[8HourPilot]

I dont believe that is an accurate statement.

At least Skyway, Expressjet, and Air Wisconsin pilots can keep this discussion about the 50 seat RFP professional & civilized...

 

[BoilerUP]

I dont believe that is an accurate statement.

Sarcasm meter pegged, M...

 

[dwstl2327]

you know whats gonna be a good laugh for all of us... when midwest comes back out and says..... egh, well we now see that the bids are to high, so i think we are just gonna stay with what we have. thanks for playing, game over!

fly safe!

 

[BoilerUP]

you know whats gonna be a good laugh for all of us... when midwest comes back out and says..... egh, well we now see that the bids are to high, so i think we are just gonna stay with what we have. thanks for playing, game over!fly safe!

Yeaaaaaaaaaah, I doubt that's going to happen.

...but just in case it does, BoilerUP will have the first round at the Landmark or Final Approach. Deal?

 

[dwstl2327]

ill take ya up on that...

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

Yeaaaaaaaaaah, I doubt that's going to happen.

...but just in case it does, BoilerUP will have the first round at the Landmark or Final Approach. Deal?

Ill get my sudds club card ready!

 

[Z28_Pilot]

Yeaaaaaaaaaah, I doubt that's going to happen.

...but just in case it does, BoilerUP will have the first round at the Landmark or Final Approach. Deal?

You from the U.P. by any chance?

-Z

 

[Superpilot92]

XJT didnt get it. Supposedly one of the reasons was because we couldnt fly into EWR. Good luck Whisky guys, hope yall get it since we didnt.

 

[masedogg19]

Nevemind....I get it now.

 

[pianoman]

Why can't you?

Because it's scary.

 

[AWACO]

Im thinking the new floation devices policy came out due to a close look at crossin some big lakes on a more reguar basis.....Thats what im hoping anyhow.

 

[masedogg19]

Methinks that new policy needs to be looked at a bit closer though.....sort of rediculous rule IMHO

 

[AWACO]

Methinks that new policy needs to be looked at a bit closer though.....sort of rediculous rule IMHO

exactally! what all does that imply for our jump seats?

 

[MarineGrunt]

XJT didnt get it. Supposedly one of the reasons was because we couldnt fly into EWR. Good luck Whisky guys, hope yall get it since we didnt.

How do you know? Who is left in the running besides Air-Whiskey?

 

[TNPILOT]

How do you know? Who is left in the running besides Air-Whiskey?

He is correct. Our direct of Flt. Ops said it on his weekly voicemail update.

 

[n757st]

He is correct. Our direct of Flt. Ops said it on his weekly voicemail update.

Word around the camp fire at Air Willy is that no one but Wisconsin is still talking to Midwest... We might or might not get it, but the rumor from the big wigs is that if anyone gets the RFP, it will be ole willy.

 

[fam62c]

My Conspiracy Theory.

Call me crazy but here's what I see happening here. I think that Air Wisconsin has some advantages here: they are a WI company, they have a MX base already in MKE for CRJ's and they will get a fuel tax credit from the state of WI IF they have a Wisconsin hub. This should give them the ability to make a competitive bid for the flying and I think they are the most likely candidate.

Now here's where I get out there. It's pretty hard to ignore the fact that the President of Skyway (also a Senior VP at Midwest) leaves Midwest for Air Wisconsin while the RFP process is taking place. JR has detailed knowledge of the inner workings and costs involved with the Skyway operation and with Midwest as a whole. He is familiar with the high-quality service requirements of Midwest and the Midwest people may be more comfortable with Air Wisconsin knowing that JR "gets it" where quality service is concerned. Air Wisconsin was willing to make an equity investment in Airways to get the flying, what would they be willing to do to get the Midwest flying? I'm willing to bet the people at Midwest are drooling to find out.

Here's what I predict; I think that this is a good a theory as any. I think that Air Wisconsin will be awarded an exclusive long-term contract to be a "partner" with Midwest and cover all flying less than 70 seats. I think that Air Wisconsin will make an "investment" in Midwest by purchasing and operating the certificate and flight operations portion ( 10-12 328's no 1900's) of Skyway. Midwest will maintain the Skyway ramp, gate and catering functions of Skyway and operate them as a seperate "ground services" division of MEH. Why do I think this? Midwest has a problem with Skyway. Skyway is shrinking as the 1900's go away and the RFP is proof that Midwest doesn't have the resources and/or desire to expand Skyway with a larger fleet type. Regardless of what anyone at Midwest may say it makes no sense to operate an entire air carrier with all the required infrastructure for 10-12 328's. These planes are small, short-range and high maintenance and a 10-12 plane operation can't be profitable. The only reason they don't put the whole deal up for subcontract is that they are stuck in the leases for the 328's and can't see a way out. Now with Air Wisconsin in the picture they can see a way out of the Skyway certificate. Midwest never makes a deal with anyone unless ther's a lot in it for them. In this situation everybody wins. Midwest gets a dependable partner and gets rid of Skyway, Air Wisconsin gets the flying, growth (for better economy of scale) and a Wisconsin hub to boot. Skyway is a turn-key (albeit a screwed up one presently) operation that Air Wisconsin can operate independently until the merger can be worked out. Air Wisconsin should be able to operate Skyway much cheaper than Midwest can because they can eliminate much of the overlap between the carriers i.e. Skyway's management and administrative functions, some facilities and equipment and the certificate itself once the carriers are integrated..........any thoughts on this?

 

[JohnyChimpo22]

Here is another one floating around. Many Midwest pilots were surprised that JR moved over to AWAC because in their words, " He was being groomed for the next Midwest CEO." So why would he go to another regional when he might have had an easy in being CEO of Midwest? The rumor starts like this. AWAC gets awarded the Midwest RFP. AWAC makes a major investment in Midwest just like they did with Airways. This investment would help Midwest buy their new fleet type of Boeing or Airbus jets. I have also heard this verison,AWAC buys Midwest. AWAC is double the size of Midwest. Mr. Rankin now becomes CEO of AWAC and Midwest. Explains why he would leave Skyway for another regional when he was on a short list for the next CEO Midwest job. AWAC operates both carriers most likely sepreatly or merge the list. Want to get more crazy??? US Airways then buys Midwest from AWAC for the whole AWAC group giving them their Midwest base MKE and MCI. This would complete operaton Barbell. Midwest new fleet, funded by AWAC, fits perfectly into the Airways operation. Then everyone lives happily ever after.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

fam I think AWAC will be resistent to add an additional fleet type for only 10-12 a/c. I think they can and will get behind 90 seat Crj's or 76 seat ERJ's if they can get them, maybe even a large scale 70 turboprop operation. I do not see AWAC buying Skyway. We already have everything that Skyway could offer us: Aircraft, managment, a ground services division, trained personnel in MKE. I agree the company may get involved with some sort of money deal to help finance Midwest growth, I think the rest will be a stretch.

I still don't think that this deal is bad news for Skyway. They provide an afordable product to Midwest. They have an a/c perfect for the EAS contracts Midwest flys, and they can cover flights for whoever pulls all those CRJ's out of storage and has them grounded everyday for the first six months fixing all the problems.

DD

 

[fam62c]

fam I think AWAC will be resistent to add an additional fleet type for only 10-12 a/c. I think they can and will get behind 90 seat Crj's or 76 seat ERJ's if they can get them, maybe even a large scale 70 turboprop operation. I do not see AWAC buying Skyway. We already have everything that Skyway could offer us: Aircraft, managment, a ground services division, trained personnel in MKE. I agree the company may get involved with some sort of money deal to help finance Midwest growth, I think the rest will be a stretch.

I still don't think that this deal is bad news for Skyway. They provide an afordable product to Midwest. They have an a/c perfect for the EAS contracts Midwest flys, and they can cover flights for whoever pulls all those CRJ's out of storage and has them grounded everyday for the first six months fixing all the problems.

DD

I agree with you DD. I'm sure that Air Wisconsin doesn't want the 328Jets, although they will work well in many Skyway markets after the 1900's are gone. Also, as I said, Air Wisconsin doesn't need the management/administrative functions of Skyway and they would be replaced at some point when the carriers were integrated. I think that Skyway would go cheap, Midwest mainly wants to get out from under aircraft and facility leases, and as I said, they would keep the ground services division and catering to serve Midwest so Air Wisconsin wouldn't need to pay for a duplicate operation. However, as I said, Midwest doesn't do anything without something in it for them. If taking over the Skyway operation is the price that Air Wisconsin must pay to get a good, exclusive long-term deal they MAY be willing to do it if they see enough future potential in the deal. Also, I'm not sure what the Air Wisconsin agreement says but it's been in vogue lately for the regionals to operate multiple certificates to get around conflicts between codeshare partners and, more ominously, to scare labor with transfering work. It could be good if Air Wisconsin got Skyway and integrated the carriers but bad if they attempted to pit the pilot groups against one another.

All I know is that there are some wierd things happening at Skyway. The attrition is relentless and staffing is way short but they are not (by orders from high up apparently) hiring replacement pilots. It looks like they will simply delete Beech flying and park/dispose of the airframes as they run out of pilots. It looks like the 1900's are getting set to be retired before their leases expire and this will result in dropped cities unless something else is up. I still say that Midwest would be crazy to operate a certificate for 10-12 planes, they have to be looking at a way to get out from underneath the 328 leases and Air Wisconsin is the obvious avenue. It seems to me that Skyway would be nothing more than a thorn in the side of Midwest unless they intend to invest in the airline and let it reach it's potential....which they obviously don't. Midwest has backed themselves into a corner so badly with poor fleet planning at both airlines that something has to give. I think they want out of Skyway so they can try to fix the mess they have created at Midwest by buying the 717 when they should have bought buses or 737's in the first place.

There could also be other possibilities and Johnny Chimpo hit on one of them; some type of equity investment by AirWis in Midwest to help them finance MD-80 replacements. I'm not sure it would go as far as AirWis and Midwest merging because this could cause problems with Airways. I can't see Airways being interested in Midwest because they already have their hands full with the AMW/Airways merger and they wouldn't want the 717's for sure but ANYTHING is possible in this business. There's also the possibility that Air Wisconsin will just take a pass on the whole deal because they may have bigger and better opportunities with the majors. Any relationship with Midwest could limit future opportunities as we just saw with the conflict of interest between CoEx, Continental and Midwest. Generally, Midwest wants everything for nothing and it may be hard when it comes time to actually work out the details. Midwest tends to get "cold feet" when it's time to actually sign on the dotted line.

For what it's worth, I also believe that the whole RFP thing was a scam anyway. I think that there was something going on between Midwest and AirWis, hence the JR defection, anyway. I would bet that AirWis was really the only player in the game from day 1 but they had to send out the RFP's to make it appear they were looking for the lowest bidder. They probably found various "reasons" to weed out everyone else. Wow, I really AM a conspiracy theorist

 

[wheelsup]

man some of these theories from awac pilots are just getting WAY outta hand

they make for fun reading though

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

man some of these theories from awac pilots are just getting WAY outta hand

they make for fun reading though

and where does the Zapruder film fit in to all of these conspiracies/theories?

 

[AWACoff]

I'm thinking that Air Wisconsin already flies over Lake Michigan and has for years. It doesn't really matter how often you expose your pax to ditching. The FAA wants the flotation devices even for a C150. More than likely, a certain flight attendant safety nazi has stirred the pot and forced BP to enact a new policy.

Im thinking the new floation devices policy came out due to a close look at crossin some big lakes on a more reguar basis.....Thats what im hoping anyhow.