Midwest attacks Airtran

[tico]

If you're not a Captain here and you get a call from FedEx or SWA, unless you just happen to live in ATL, you'd be crazy from a $$$ standpoint to stay.[/quote]

It can go wither way too. I was talking to a couple of PHoenix based FedEx pilots who were both leaving for Airtran. It can happen.

What you meant to say was that you were talking to a couple of Empire pilots that are phoenix based flying the caravans/f-27/atr-42.....There are no Phoenix based Fed Ex pilots

 

[WalterSobchak]

This little thing is spot on about the DFW operation. I was an agent in DFW when all that went down and it was business as usual for the 'Tran.

Just a little insight on AirTran ground ops for perspective.

AirTran loves to try to expand stations without hiring any extra help...then they run down and run off their best employees leaving only a handful of folks who are committed to the task at hand, all while having to pull the weight of the rest of the crappy employees you have left.

Then, when those few employees can't make performance goals and have essentially pissed off every potential customer in a market because of lack of staffing...AirTran essentially tells the employees they suck, pull all of their flights, and suddenly hire 5 warm bodies and new equipment that they could have used when they actually had the flights.

There were days during the summer that DFW went to 18 flights a day where we had 3 people on the ramp...4 including the lone bagroom agent getting his arse kicked...with a few 3-4 flight banks in the afternoons. Doesn't sound like much, but with summer loads, we literally spent 4-6 hours straight running around like chickens with our heads cut off 'til we just couldn't do it anymore. All because we took a little pride in getting the flights off on-time.

For several weeks, it wasn't a normal day if you weren't completely soaked in sweat and puking on the ramp by the last push. I lost 60 lbs. that summer from non-stop go, go, go...granted I needed to lose the weight, 60 lbs. in 2 and a half months just isn't healthy. I stuck it out because wanted to be in this industry and wanted to pay my dues and was trying to set myself up with a little more operations experience to get a dispatch job.

The customer service agents in the afternoons were left out to dry because the only good supervisors in the station worked mornings and the PM shift sups hid in an office all day because many of the passenger issues were just too much for them to handle. Tack that onto the fact that half the customer service agents had ZERO customer service skills and no knowledge of how an airline operates (I was regularly called from the ramp to explain ATL flow control to passengers because our gate agents were borderline retarded)...and the crap regularly hit the fan.

AirTran has some great folks working for them...the pilot group and dispatch are top notch (given the chance, I'd go to Orlando), and there are some great agents and F/A's there as well. Sadly, so many of those good agents and supervisors are passed over repeatedly for promotions in favor of people from the outside (most often times NWA rejects/"retirees"). Therefore, AirTran can't seem to keep the good ones and are left with folks with single-digit IQ's.

All in all, I can see where Midwest would be worried about AirTran making promises to expand MKE...only to throw up the white flag like they have in so many other expansion attempts. They shoot themselves in the foot by not providing the stations with the resources it needs to be successful and then wondering why it's not working.

 

[75M]

Walt...good post. It sounds an awful lot like Indy to me. Work you to death and have massive turnover. On another note, the promises being made by AAI to the people of Milwaukee sound a lot like the promises made by AMR to the people of Saint Louis during the TWA acquisition. The difference is I think AAI is more intent on growing MKE that AMR was about growing STL.

Incidentally, I hate this Piece of sh*T server... post once, nothing shows. Wait 5 minutes, refresh, wait 5 minutes, refresh again, wait 5 minutes, repost and voila'... double post.

You'd think with all this ad revenue they could afford a REAL server.

C'mon Lear...a good craftsman never blames his tools

 

[FlyWolf]

This little thing is spot on about the DFW operation. I was an agent in DFW when all that went down and it was business as usual for the 'Tran.

Just a little insight on AirTran ground ops for perspective.

AirTran loves to try to expand stations without hiring any extra help...then they run down and run off their best employees leaving only a handful of folks who are committed to the task at hand, all while having to pull the weight of the rest of the crappy employees you have left.

Then, when those few employees can't make performance goals and have essentially pissed off every potential customer in a market because of lack of staffing...AirTran essentially tells the employees they suck, pull all of their flights, and suddenly hire 5 warm bodies and new equipment that they could have used when they actually had the flights.

There were days during the summer that DFW went to 18 flights a day where we had 3 people on the ramp...4 including the lone bagroom agent getting his arse kicked...with a few 3-4 flight banks in the afternoons. Doesn't sound like much, but with summer loads, we literally spent 4-6 hours straight running around like chickens with our heads cut off 'til we just couldn't do it anymore. All because we took a little pride in getting the flights off on-time.

For several weeks, it wasn't a normal day if you weren't completely soaked in sweat and puking on the ramp by the last push. I lost 60 lbs. that summer from non-stop go, go, go...granted I needed to lose the weight, 60 lbs. in 2 and a half months just isn't healthy. I stuck it out because wanted to be in this industry and wanted to pay my dues and was trying to set myself up with a little more operations experience to get a dispatch job.

The customer service agents in the afternoons were left out to dry because the only good supervisors in the station worked mornings and the PM shift sups hid in an office all day because many of the passenger issues were just too much for them to handle. Tack that onto the fact that half the customer service agents had ZERO customer service skills and no knowledge of how an airline operates (I was regularly called from the ramp to explain ATL flow control to passengers because our gate agents were borderline retarded)...and the crap regularly hit the fan.

AirTran has some great folks working for them...the pilot group and dispatch are top notch (given the chance, I'd go to Orlando), and there are some great agents and F/A's there as well. Sadly, so many of those good agents and supervisors are passed over repeatedly for promotions in favor of people from the outside (most often times NWA rejects/"retirees"). Therefore, AirTran can't seem to keep the good ones and are left with folks with single-digit IQ's.

All in all, I can see where Midwest would be worried about AirTran making promises to expand MKE...only to throw up the white flag like they have in so many other expansion attempts. They shoot themselves in the foot by not providing the stations with the resources it needs to be successful and then wondering why it's not working.

I guess that explain this article: (Airtran Embraces new cost Metric)

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/new...39750.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

 

[WalterSobchak]

I guess that explain this article: (Airtran Embraces new cost Metric)

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/new...39750.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

I don't care if you're trying to impress the shareholders...I just don't understand how that's something to be proud of.

It's one thing the staff PROPERLY and not have alot of extra people standing around doing nothing. There's nothing wrong with hard work. It is another thing entirely to work your people to the bone, have them hate their jobs, and lose good people.

I was at DFW the other day and stopped to visit a few of my old AirTran coworkers. One of them told me something that kinda bothered me:

"Everytime we see someone who has left here, they just look so much more calm and at peace than they did when they were here."

 

[instructordude]

What you meant to say was that you were talking to a couple of Empire pilots that are phoenix based flying the caravans/f-27/atr-42.....There are no Phoenix based Fed Ex pilots

There airplanes say FedEx so as far as I will say, they are FedEx dudes. They were both on the Caravan.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

There airplanes say FedEx so as far as I will say, they are FedEx dudes. They were both on the Caravan.
__________________

Thanks...I needed a good laugh today.

 

[j41driver]

There airplanes say FedEx so as far as I will say, they are FedEx dudes. They were both on the Caravan.

Yeah...almost the same.

 

[gt1900]

Walter.. Don't forgett though that AMR is extremely competitive on thier home turf... From what I understand when AAI started doing DFW-LAX and DFW-LAS, AMR doubled their flights and then dropped prices below AAI's just to crush AAI's expansion plans at DFW. Their was another little airline called DAL that all but pulled out of DFW as well because of AMR.. AAI will not go head to head loosing money just to compete for market share. They can't afford to.... As far as the number of employees per airplane, yes they work rampers too hard. But, the other alternative is to do like Alaska and Midwest have done and fire all their in house rampers and contract the ramp to the lowest bidder... What most people are forgetting is that AAI really wants a midwest hub, and Milwaukee fits that bill perfectly. There won't be a ton of competion from the legacy's or southwest. I hear people saying F9 would be a good match, but then AAI is going head to head with SWA and UAL. Why not go for Midwest, expand Milwaukee to the max capacity of the airport, and have a huge hub that could easily be protected. Even if the current proposal doesn't go through, I wouldn't be suprised to see AAI raise the bid again and keep fighting.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Oh, I'm completely aware that the AMR nAAzis were undercutting us on the fares...but the AirTran flights were still going out full on most days even with the AA fares being the same.

Just kinda felt like we busted our asses for nothing when it was all said and done.