mid atlantic airlines

[E170Guppykiller]

Why does everybody hate us? We are just trying to earn a living here, just like you are.

 

[E170Guppykiller]

.....

 

[OPECJet]

Why does everybody hate us? We are just trying to earn a living here, just like you are.

Then act like it the next time your contract negotiations come around. We're all trying to earn a living. Unfortunately when one airline lowballs, the rest suffer. I don't think there is any pilot group who would not support CHQ and or Mesa in raising the bar at their respective company when its time to hit the negotiating tables again.

Plain and simple, get over the 1 week upgrade, SNJ syndrome, the "my airplane can beat up your airplane syndrome", and ACT like the professional pilots you trained hard to be by not giving up pay and QOL for the previously mentioned dangled carrots.

 

[k9nole]

It is one thing to hang tough now when you have a job @ MDA, it is another to face unemployment and not put food on the table.
/QUOTE]

Might be surprised at how few come over.
There are many reasons why most wont:

Commute and no J/S reservation.

Been furloughed once, some have been 2 and 3 times. Unemployment checks will supplement the two months of low training pay. $450 a week in PA plus state pays for job training. Some pilots furloughed in 2002 had their 737 type paid in full.

Training contract.
Some J4J pilots that went to Mesa were held for 8 months after the 1 year at the rock. Those pilots wanted to leave and go to MDA but USAir held them at Mesa. Pilots lost money, lost vacation, lost hair, increased stress etc.

If, a BIG IF, USAirways/AmericaWest starts to call back before the year training contract is complete?

Most pilots including the CDL pilots have been in the industry for over 10 years starting back at year one at a commuter airline with QOL issues; not worth it.

Currently, there are 7-10 pilots a month quiting MDA. Ranging from Real Estate to starting their own business to Flight Safety Instructors to Corporate Pilots.

Travel Benefits would actually decrease. A Furloughed pilot would actually have boarding priority before a contract carrier pilot. If the plane has seats.

Not trying to downplay CHQ, all of these issues would surface at any other commuter/airline.

Again for those that have a reading comprehention problem, the pilots at MDA are not pilots starting their careers in aviation building time trying to get to the "Majors". Been there done that with the furloughs, already have a senority number at Usairways/AmericaWest if they wanted to go to a commuter, they would have done the J4J with CHQ years prior.

Why not start a career out of aviation now in case USAirways doesn't call back? CDL pilots (PDT nd ALG) do have recall rights to the new USAirways if and when they call back.


I see maybe 50 pilots going if MDA loses the arbitration and maybe 50% going if they win.

 

[SizzleChest]

I blame the pilots at majors for lowering the bar.... they gave up trip/duty rig, pension, intl/nite override pay, QOL, pay, etc.... now that they don't have it I can't get it for my next contract.... no more parity + 1% for me..... now I have to make good with what i can get and face the fact I will be here for a while doing this at a regional.... those guys at majors ask about coming to work here and at a fractional job.... they were DAL 767 pilots.....

 

[BenderGonzales]

Start looking to corporate jobs gentlemen. Print a list of Fortune 500 companies and start emailing pilots (this site is a good start) and making friends. There are jobs out there that are superior to major airline jobs in almost every way. Be humble, network! network! network!

You'll most likely be leaving the airlines forever, but in exchange you'll enjoy very few overnights, very few weekends or holidays away from your family, fantastic equipment, fantastic training, no more TSA, no more ALPA...

Check the NBAA for average corporate-jet payscales by region and by type. Corporate aviation (NOT fractional or 135) is where you will find the cream-of-the-crop jobs for the foreseeable future.

Good luck!

 

[Thurman Merman]

colgan?

First of all colgan doesn't belong in this discussion. We don't even have a contract to lower the bar with. We are on an entirely different bottom than the other afore mentioned bottom feeders. Oh, as for stealing routes, I'm sorry we took away Jamestown to PIT via Bradley from mainline. I don't fly for a regional I fly for a commuter albiet not a stellar one. Last time I checked we weren't flying saabs halfway across the country once dominated by mainline routes. I jumpseated with an airbus crew not too long ago and they asked me how I felt about the 170. In my opinion its a mainline airplane flying mainline routes with regional pilots, they liked that one. So if you want to talk about lowering the bar we'll be on the special olympics field running into it. and yes OLD A$$ DUSTY PROP SYNDROME has worn off.

 

[Traumahawk]

Then act like it the next time your contract negotiations come around. .....and ACT like the professional pilots you trained hard to be by not giving up pay and QOL for the previously mentioned dangled carrots.

I'm a mid seniority F/O and my QOL is absolutely wonderful. I wasn't even here for the last contract, and it looks like For the FIRST round of BIG contract negotations this group has ever seen, they didn't do too shabby. This was a 500 pilot airline less than 5 years ago. You just don't have the big picture. You line up a couple pay scales and say whooaa SJS!!!

What they did avoid was a G0Jets fiasco. They gave up a lot for that. A Lot.
In addition...
No Junior Manning.
Short reserve times.
Block or better Etc... Etc... Etc...

and Yes, right now, a quicker upgrade than most. Looks like by contract negotiation time the upgrade will likely be leveling off at 2 1/2 to 3+ years....

Huh...Looks like the plan worked. They got ONE seniority list for ALL flying....loads of growth, good work rules and up to now and counting..Unless you choose not to advance, you are without a doubt making well over $40/hr here before your third year. And you probably don't even know what a high speed is after all is said and done.

And with all this off the table, I'd say were in a nice position for focusing on payscales and finer points during the next contract which is rapidly approaching. Should be right in time to take care of this single F/O scale that tops out 3 years down the road...knock wood. Noone hits a home-run on the first swing...these guys did what was best for their airline. If you think it screwed YOU, you're just ignorant. Go get a funny hat and open up a hotdog stand. You're better off.

T-Hawk

P.S. I haven't seen a single argument here by a non CHQ pilot that could hold any weight. Whats easier than to cover jeaousy in name calling and finger pointing....an airline is growing during a tough time in the industry. How dare they. And you're not even here to have a minute's insight as to how it really is and how wrong you are. Stereotypes are the easiest way to go.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Thurman,

In all fairness, 1977 Allegheny did fly the DC9 to Bradford, along with Clarksburg, Parkersburg, Utica and a few other choice locations in PA, OH, and NY.

We'll give you reprieve though even though you're flying a fancy turboprop with a fantastic autopilot and efis.

If you REALLY had "old A$$ dusty prop syndrome" you'd be driving around in a Metro or maybe a Jetstream with deferred freon air!

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables and Maps/USAir Compressed/ALmap7708.jpg

 

[Dash8301]

Then act like it the next time your contract negotiations come around. We're all trying to earn a living. Unfortunately when one airline lowballs, the rest suffer. I don't think there is any pilot group who would not support CHQ and or Mesa in raising the bar at their respective company when its time to hit the negotiating tables again.

Plain and simple, get over the 1 week upgrade, SNJ syndrome, the "my airplane can beat up your airplane syndrome", and ACT like the professional pilots you trained hard to be by not giving up pay and QOL for the previously mentioned dangled carrots.

Amen Brother.

 

[piginshlitz]

I have to laugh at those of you who talk about the contract at CHQ and say they need a pair. They have in their contract the one and obiously most important thing that all of you have failed to get. And They fought to get it. SCOPE. SCOPE. SCOPE. You are b!tching about your failure to have any scope protection in your own agreements and then b!tching about the guys at CHQ standing by theirs. If you had better or even any scope at all in your contract you would not be in this situation. As was just said, your argument doesn't hold water. You are just upset because you are on the losing end of the deal due to your own (or at least ALPA's) lack of foresight. Sorry, but CHQ/REP seems to have the better contract here.

 

[Corbon]

Just a question. Why are we the only one's getting criticism for our 170 rates when the MDA payscale is almost identical? Were they negotiated or did Airways just say "we're bankrupt and the judge says we can pay you whatever we want"? Even that is no excuse. The fact is, those pay rates were accepted by every single pilot that flys at MDA so where is the outrage? Why didn't THEY raise the bar and tell Airways to pound sand until they paid them more? After all, they're ALPA. We're getting slammed for our pay rates, but nothing is said about theirs? Am I missing something? What gives?

E170Guppykiller..if you really do fly the 170, name a common place in the cockpit you may look to find hidden girly/funny pictures? It's not in your Flight Sim 2005 handbook so don't even bother looking. Not that an answer to that question is hard to come by for a pilot. I'm just curious as to if you can even produce an answer.

I don't really care if you have a legit response or not. You'll still be a tool.

 

[Thurman Merman]

Thurman,

In all fairness, 1977 Allegheny did fly the DC9 to Bradford, along with Clarksburg, Parkersburg, Utica and a few other choice locations in PA, OH, and NY.

We'll give you reprieve though even though you're flying a fancy turboprop with a fantastic autopilot and efis.

If you REALLY had "old A$$ dusty prop syndrome" you'd be driving around in a Metro or maybe a Jetstream with deferred freon air!

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%20and%20Maps/USAir%20Compressed/ALmap7708.jpg

TOUCHE BENDER

 

[Bdfg1]

Just a question. Why are we the only one's getting criticism for our 170 rates when the MDA payscale is almost identical? Were they negotiated or did Airways just say "we're bankrupt and the judge says we can pay you whatever we want"? Even that is no excuse. The fact is, those pay rates were accepted by every single pilot that flys at MDA so where is the outrage? Why didn't THEY raise the bar and tell Airways to pound sand until they paid them more? After all, they're ALPA. We're getting slammed for our pay rates, but nothing is said about theirs? Am I missing something? What gives?QUOTE]

Seems the MDA pilots are taking a stand by not accepting the crap that goes with being employed by Republic i.e. training contract for an aircraft they are already current and qualified for. Double occupancy in training(what is this cub scouts?)

 

[piginshlitz]

Seems the MDA pilots are taking a stand by not accepting the crap that goes with being employed by Republic i.e. training contract for an aircraft they are already current and qualified for. Double occupancy in training(what is this cub scouts?)

Great for them. What does that have to do with the pilots at REP? That is their own deal to negotiate. Why is that not in the original J4J agreement between ALPA and U? It is not reasonable to expect the pilots at REP to give up anything or to even fight for something that has no impact on them at all. In fact it is likely to have a negative impact on them. This is just a case of ALPA screwing up from day one and back peddling like hell just to try to get out from behind the eightball.

I have heard the arguement that ALPA sold the MDA guys out so they sould not be compared or held accoutable for the actions of mainline ALPA. The same people then ask the teamsters to sell out their young in the interest of "doing what's right". Sorry you can't have it both ways. If the teamsters sell out their young then they are as bad as ALPA. I aplaude them for taking the high road on this.

My point is, if the ALPA pilots would stop pointing their fingers at the Teamsters and start focusing on the real problem (management at ALL carriers involved and ALPA) then they might get somewhere with this. The finger pointing is only serving to separate the two groups.