jetbluedog
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Metro Bus driver highest paid city employee $160,000
- Thread starter jetbluedog
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JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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Remember in November...
Jar Jar
I spake!
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oh yea cuz the other guys are going to fix it, right?
These same people bitched that you couldn't stop the bonuses to Wall Street crooks because it was violating their contracts and it would lead to a bad precedent where contracts wouldn't be honored. Now they think if Republicans are in power they can change these labor contracts. How are they going to do that? Ignore a contract?
buscap
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So what exactly needs fixed in November...?
As a card carrying union member, you should applaud this, and whether you like it or not your AFLCIO affiliation made it possible.
Public service employees should, and generally do, have the same access to collective bargaining as the rest of us.
Or should collective bargaining and unions be made illegal? Is that your point?
Flyprdu
You Want This, Don't You.
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+1
There is a collective race to the bottom driven by jealousy and short-sighted thinking. Conservatives, and those who wrongfully support them, would gladly cut this person's salary by 3/4 and then pass the savings onto the wealthy who tuck it away in their accounts or spend it overseas.
Great thinking. Their kind will be the end of us all.
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-1
There is a collective race to destroy the producers of society driven by jealousy and short-sighted thinking. Liberals, and those who wrongfully support them would gladly raise every public employees salary to this and higher then pass the cost on to the entrepreneur and the tax-payer thus driving businesses out of business or overseas. This will in turn create an ever more dependent society as more and more jobs are unsustainable in the domestic market.
Great thinking. Their kind will be the the end of us all.
ultrarunner
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WMUSIGPI
The $100,000,000 Question
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And the last 2 posts is why I listen to Govenor Jessie, "The Body", Ventura. He won't endorse or vote for ANY Republican OR Democrat. They are BOTH the problem. It's time to kick them all out. Their only goal is reelection not the betterment of the country.
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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If you want to become Greece, then there isn't a problem with this. How are we going to pay for these generous pay and retirement packages for public workers?
Why should I applaud this? I and you and the rest of us have to pay for this. Public sector unions have over played their hand, and it is going to be the next financial train wreck.
Freebrd
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wot he say
Jar Jar
I spake!
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You mean Governor Jesse Ventura?
If you're going to be a sheep and follow a clown, at least know how to spell his name.
Super thermite, oh crap! That could be painted on all of our houses right now, waiting for the government to burn us all down!
Yup.. you've got it figured out man. Haha.
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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Ayn? Is that you?
Hilarious.... jack someone else down... why don't you focus on yourself instead of what others make rightfully....
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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Atlas is starting to shrug......
Jar Jar
I spake!
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America is what we make it.
Any person who votes toward someone else's best interest is a moron.
livin'thesim
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There is a universe of difference between public sector and private sector workers.
What is interesting is the private sector union workers (which I generally support) somehow think they owe an allegiance to public employee unions.
In most cases, it takes the form of assuming that union=good anywhere and everywhere.
If the average private sector union worker knew the kind of corruption and backroom dealing that public unions are involved in, they might not so automatically support them.
The problem is not that public workers are unionized as much as the fact that they have corrupted the negotiating process.
I recommend pensiontsunami.com as a great website to see how public unions have unwittingly bankrupted many cities.
The problem with the current public union paradigm is that there are few natural checks on union power. In a private company, the union must consider that while they want good wages, they also need the company to be viable.
In the public sector, the "management" (state and local governments) often cooperate with union demands, because those officials are ALSO getting fat at the taxpayer trough.
Read the link. The insatiable greed of politicians AND state and local (not federal) unions have put most pension budgets beyond any hope or repair. Anyone who does not admit that there is a big difference between private and public sector unions is not paying attention. The final takeaway point is that state and local promises to union workers are so deep in the red that property taxes would need to be doubled of tripled in order to pay out.
Since most people are not willing to live in poverty so that DMV workers can retire with an $80k pension, we can count on changes. While the public employees will whine about 'a promise is a promise', they usually don't like to admit that those promises were generally done without the public's knowledge or approval.
The cities cannot afford to pay, ergo they will not pay. The money is simply not there.
What is interesting is the private sector union workers (which I generally support) somehow think they owe an allegiance to public employee unions.
In most cases, it takes the form of assuming that union=good anywhere and everywhere.
If the average private sector union worker knew the kind of corruption and backroom dealing that public unions are involved in, they might not so automatically support them.
The problem is not that public workers are unionized as much as the fact that they have corrupted the negotiating process.
I recommend pensiontsunami.com as a great website to see how public unions have unwittingly bankrupted many cities.
The problem with the current public union paradigm is that there are few natural checks on union power. In a private company, the union must consider that while they want good wages, they also need the company to be viable.
In the public sector, the "management" (state and local governments) often cooperate with union demands, because those officials are ALSO getting fat at the taxpayer trough.
Read the link. The insatiable greed of politicians AND state and local (not federal) unions have put most pension budgets beyond any hope or repair. Anyone who does not admit that there is a big difference between private and public sector unions is not paying attention. The final takeaway point is that state and local promises to union workers are so deep in the red that property taxes would need to be doubled of tripled in order to pay out.
Since most people are not willing to live in poverty so that DMV workers can retire with an $80k pension, we can count on changes. While the public employees will whine about 'a promise is a promise', they usually don't like to admit that those promises were generally done without the public's knowledge or approval.
The cities cannot afford to pay, ergo they will not pay. The money is simply not there.
livin'thesim
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Anyone who only votes their own interest is a selfish creep.
I vote for what is right and fair. Sometimes it is in my interest, sometimes it is not in my interest.
I guess I believe in that "do unto others" thing.
Character counts, and a person who cannot see beyond their own wants is devoid of character or honor.
livin'thesim
Well-known member
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If you knew more about the public union negotiation process, you would not make statements like "make rightfully".
Stick to private sector union issues where you have some actual knowledge.
WMUSIGPI
The $100,000,000 Question
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Sorry, was up at 4:30 for work. It was a long day. I am not simply following a clown, simply a Libertarian sick of the B.S. of both the 'major' parties. Sick of politicians looking for a way to get reelected rather than doing what is best for their constitutients.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Contradict yourself much???
From this thread...
and this thread
And this one
I could go on, and on, and on...
You see... the demise of this country will be when liberals, and those with your beliefs quoted above, drive every wealthy person out of wealth or overseas.
Maybe, if you stopped and thought for a minute, you would realize that PUBLIC sector union employees are paid BY YOU, THE TAXPAYER.
Wanna celebrate that he makes over 4X the national average to drive a bus, while we, the private sector airline employees take cuts and live on food stamp qualifying wages? Fine, then stop your complaining when you take yet another pay cut in the form of income taxes to pay for this absurdity. Stop complaining when the CEO's and Exec's get richer because the tax hike causes you to live even more "paycheck to paycheck" while it only slightly slows their investment activity.
You see... you stand there and tell me to "focus on myself instead of what others make rightfully" while the other side of your mouth decries the evils of the rich man.
You cannot stand that a billionaire like Gates, or Jobs, or Pickens gets to keep what they made "rightfully". You cannot stand that you do not get to tap into their production of wealth.
You will not be happy until we ALL live together in misery and poverty.
54fighting
Well-known member
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- Feb 16, 2002
- Posts
- 177
Very well put. A very basic comparison anyone can understand.
There is an article about a NJ Turnpike worker that raked in over $300k.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/10/19/audit-finds-excessive-perks-for-nj-turnpike-employees/
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The public sector unions' pension scheme is a national disgrace. Unlike private sector defined benefit pensions, which are generally based on length of service and the final year's base salary or an average of the last few years' base salary, public sector union pensions are typically based on the final year's total compensation. This algorithm typically includes final year pay grade bumps and taking maximum advantage of contractual overtime provisions. Thus, it is not unusual to see public sector union members retire with a pension that exceeds their last year's base salary. Nice deal for the union members, but it sucks to be a taxpayer in this environment.
The problem is compounded by the overly optimistic assumptions made for the future value of pension fund investments. For example, the massive California pension fund shortfall would not exist if invested funds had grown at an annual rate of 8-9% (DOW 29000 in June 2009).
buscap
Well-known member
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- Feb 23, 2005
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John Galt is an absolutist with no patience for hypocrisy. How dare you carry the looter's club card in your wallet, enjoying the harvest of taken currency, while deriding another no less deserving man for doing the same!
You sir are a looter of the lowest order. One who only seeks gains for yourself, while denying the true meaning of what looterism is all about. At least have the courage to truly embrace the ideals which so conveniently put money in your pocket.
:angryfire
How common of a liberal to resort to name calling, because they have nothing else to stand on. Liberals pretend they want to "save the world", but the reality is shown clearly in your statement above.
You did have one part right. America is what WE make it, it's not all about you.
livin'thesim
Well-known member
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- Apr 6, 2005
- Posts
- 926
Here's another little bit of truth: The history of private sector unions is entirely unlike the history of public sector unions.
The rise of unions in the private sector was largely based on workers who were terribly exploited and worked in very unsafe conditions.
For most public sector workers, there has never been the level of hostility toward their demands. In fact, many politicians fear the employee unions greatly, giving them a power over the state and local governments that is disproportionate.
When public workers unionize, they lose any real sense of job accountability. This is very unlike a private sector union workers, who still have to be careful to make sure their company survives.
Also, let's admit something else that is true.
The whole basis of unions was to protect "the worker" - the man who actually does the dirty work of producing the wealth.
Most public sector employees are superfluous pencil-pushers. They don't actually produce. They collect taxes, enforce rules, etc.
But that is not production. While we do need some government, many governmental bodies do more to hinder production than help it.
The key issue here is that many private sector union workers will automatically, reflexively, and unthininkly support public sector unions because, well, because of the work "union".
"I'm a union man. Therefore I support all union workers."
Well, that is sweet of you, and kind of cute, but what you need to see is that public sector unions are going to give private sector unions a bad name.
In reality, private sector union workers should be distancing themselves from public sector unions, since they are altogether a different thing.
I realize that many people will refuse to see the difference, however, since their mental process is only union=good. Well, go ahead, but when the public sector unions get clobbered as their greed is being discovered, the public may lose sympathy for us as well.
The rise of unions in the private sector was largely based on workers who were terribly exploited and worked in very unsafe conditions.
For most public sector workers, there has never been the level of hostility toward their demands. In fact, many politicians fear the employee unions greatly, giving them a power over the state and local governments that is disproportionate.
When public workers unionize, they lose any real sense of job accountability. This is very unlike a private sector union workers, who still have to be careful to make sure their company survives.
Also, let's admit something else that is true.
The whole basis of unions was to protect "the worker" - the man who actually does the dirty work of producing the wealth.
Most public sector employees are superfluous pencil-pushers. They don't actually produce. They collect taxes, enforce rules, etc.
But that is not production. While we do need some government, many governmental bodies do more to hinder production than help it.
The key issue here is that many private sector union workers will automatically, reflexively, and unthininkly support public sector unions because, well, because of the work "union".
"I'm a union man. Therefore I support all union workers."
Well, that is sweet of you, and kind of cute, but what you need to see is that public sector unions are going to give private sector unions a bad name.
In reality, private sector union workers should be distancing themselves from public sector unions, since they are altogether a different thing.
I realize that many people will refuse to see the difference, however, since their mental process is only union=good. Well, go ahead, but when the public sector unions get clobbered as their greed is being discovered, the public may lose sympathy for us as well.
outtahere
Well-known member
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- Feb 7, 2004
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- 641
UHHHHHH!! So let me get this straight, we should cut the taxes of the rich, so that they can get richer, and HOPEFULLY create some jobs, and keep their money here. To pay for this rich man tax cut, we, the middle class, should pay more taxes, and be thankful that we have rich people in this country at all!!! Now this city bus employee who worked his BUTT off to make what he made, is a crook for it? Though if you read the whole article, the city is really at fault for this because they are running short staffed! (Sound familiar ASAer's) Let me put it this way, if you want a strong middle class, vote democrat, if you want the wealthiest 2% to do REALLY well, vote republican. If you're a really big moron, respond to this post telling me how great the republican party is.
buscap
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Posts
- 999
Firemen
Police
Trash Collectors
Bus Drivers
Train/Subway Operators
Just to name a few.
Those folks deserve representation just as much as private sector workers.
The problem is the pandering politicians, not the unions.
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