Message From UAL MEC Chariman

[EWR_FO]

Miraculous that we made money right when it suits them huh?

Yeah UAL was definitely going down.........lol.

Kinda ironic that you would say that we are sounding like USAir East. The JCBA and SLI should be seperate - we all agreed to it. Now that we call BS because you are trying to tie JCBA and SLI arguments together a member of your MEC in the Denver meeting stood up and said he was willing to hold up the JCBA INDEFINITELY until the 747/777 pay was banded.

Who's sounding more like the East?

I am done on this subject - CAL pilots go ahead and bash away at what little unity we have - see where that gets us in a few years. I guess I will have to wait until another Magenta Line comes out.

Shrek,

Just to be clear- my absolute disgust with this whole issue is not a UAL-CAL thing, it's a senior-junior thing. For twenty plus years I have watched it happen time and time again and I will be damned if I sit back and let it happen- yet again.

I can remember like it was yesterday:

1) Being told by one of the senior pilots negotiating for our commuter (back when no one considered it insulting to use that term) that "you don't negotiate for the FO's, you negotiate for the CA's because you will be a CA eventually. The first Gulf War started a few months later and there was no movement for three plus years. That worked out well.

2) Being told by the IACP President (same position as ALPA MEC Chairman today) during negotiations that "we need to take care of the guys who are retiring on THIS contract (he retired before the ink dried and I will piss on his grave when he dies) and we'll get the junior guys on the next. He proceeded to negotiate a DC-10 SO payscale that was a complete back door retirement plan for his buddies. Oddly enough, the payrates on the FO side years 1-5 got killed. Since there was hardly any votes from that section, these MF's laughed all the way to the bank.

3) Being told by the next IACP President after I told him how stupid it was that we didn't get a B-Plan "there is no need for a B plan if you have a good A plan." How'd that work out you stupid MF'er? To this day, when I see this guy I want to punch him in the face.

4) Flying back from Asia with a guy who was going to change, hop on a DC flight when we got in, and go knock on doors to try and get the age changed. he couldn't give two s**ts what effect this would have on the junior guys.

The UAL management team that KNEW they were going to be removing a giant chunk of their domestic operation and "conceded" into giving domestic work rules makes me sick. In retrospect, how much did those work rules end up costing them?

I could just as easily sit back and wait for the dust to settle, I'm still going to be a widebody guy in NY but, at some point, we have got to STOP a** fu**ing the lower end of the spectrum in order to give to the upper...that's all I'm saying. I firmly believe that is what is behind this issue, if someone can show me that is not the case, then I'm all in.

The fact that guys like you have been out for that long while the pin striped MF'ers line their pockets makes me sick. I'm ready to torch the place, I'm just waiting for the nod.

 

[ATRCA]

Yesterday the executive VP of flight ops told a group of returning CAL furloughee's that the "most vulnerable aircraft in the merged company were UAL 75's and 74's".......those are the aircraft being targeted for reductions should reductions be necessary......Those 74's aren't gonna be here in 24 months. CAL has NEVER been a 74 company. The CAL management team is running this show and they have no use for those frames. They don't think its a viable frame going forward.

The UAL MEC knows this, they must or they haven't been paying attention. This is a seniority grab pure and simple. If we have to go the way of USAir, so be it. We're not going to capitulate here, it's not going to happen.

 

[Shrek]

Shrek,

Just to be clear- my absolute disgust with this whole issue is not a UAL-CAL thing, it's a senior-junior thing. For twenty plus years I have watched it happen time and time again and I will be damned if I sit back and let it happen- yet again.

I can remember like it was yesterday:

1) Being told by one of the senior pilots negotiating for our commuter (back when no one considered it insulting to use that term) that "you don't negotiate for the FO's, you negotiate for the CA's because you will be a CA eventually. The first Gulf War started a few months later and there was no movement for three plus years. That worked out well.

2) Being told by the IACP President (same position as ALPA MEC Chairman today) during negotiations that "we need to take care of the guys who are retiring on THIS contract (he retired before the ink dried and I will piss on his grave when he dies) and we'll get the junior guys on the next. He proceeded to negotiate a DC-10 SO payscale that was a complete back door retirement plan for his buddies. Oddly enough, the payrates on the FO side years 1-5 got killed. Since there was hardly any votes from that section, these MF's laughed all the way to the bank.

3) Being told by the next IACP President after I told him how stupid it was that we didn't get a B-Plan "there is no need for a B plan if you have a good A plan." How'd that work out you stupid MF'er? To this day, when I see this guy I want to punch him in the face.

4) Flying back from Asia with a guy who was going to change, hop on a DC flight when we got in, and go knock on doors to try and get the age changed. he couldn't give two s**ts what effect this would have on the junior guys.

The UAL management team that KNEW they were going to be removing a giant chunk of their domestic operation and "conceded" into giving domestic work rules makes me sick. In retrospect, how much did those work rules end up costing them?

I could just as easily sit back and wait for the dust to settle, I'm still going to be a widebody guy in NY but, at some point, we have got to STOP a** fu**ing the lower end of the spectrum in order to give to the upper...that's all I'm saying. I firmly believe that is what is behind this issue, if someone can show me that is not the case, then I'm all in.

The fact that guys like you have been out for that long while the pin striped MF'ers line their pockets makes me sick. I'm ready to torch the place, I'm just waiting for the nod.

At least I know exactly where you are coming from - thanks for the post.

 

[becket]

Wait till they join USAPA. . .

No other pilot group in the World is as Dumb as the Eastholes. UAL isn't going anywhere.

 

[waveflyer]

Thatsa nice generic about sticking up for the junior-
I'd set it up a bit clearer-
1- Sticking up and fighting for the QOL of the junior and smaller a/c sends so many messages-
The opposite shows mgmt that you can be divided

One payscale will pay for itself in droves when it comes to unity. The paycuts at alps carriers are due to a lack of unity caused by short term policies that don't look out for all-

UPS style is a win-win for all, even the company.

A UAL 747capt medical retiree will cause 12 training events- many of whom don't want to be in training and don't want to move airplanes, but are forced to for financial reasons- one payscale is efficient as geezers will now choose domestic flying and stay in the same time zone- and more pilots will be represented more fairly as those with influence and seniority are spread throughout the fleet based on personal preference and not on wry of pay- one payscale puts an end to the trainig ripple effect waste and that can be used as leverage for higher blended wages.

Win- win - win

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Yesterday the executive VP of flight ops told a group of returning CAL furloughee's that the "most vulnerable aircraft in the merged company were UAL 75's and 74's".......those are the aircraft being targeted for reductions should reductions be necessary......Those 74's aren't gonna be here in 24 months. CAL has NEVER been a 74 company. The CAL management team is running this show and they have no use for those frames. They don't think its a viable frame going forward.

The UAL MEC knows this, they must or they haven't been paying attention. This is a seniority grab pure and simple. If we have to go the way of USAir, so be it. We're not going to capitulate here, it's not going to happen.

The 744 frames have no use? Are you kidding? Totally not true. You don't realize the magnitude nor the payload those things carry. The triple can't do the job.

 

[rumrunner300]

Well, it is time we get all that back and more. Most UAL pilots think that to have the 747/777 pay banded - it would be a concession, period.

It would be shot down in an instant........

I would not be so sure. I know of plenty of brothers and sisters that are sick and tired of having their interests play second fiddle to the 400's. This would include me. The maximization of good for the GREATEST number of pilots at OUR company should be the goal.

Also, anyone who takes what has been presented by either MEC officer at face value as the whole truth is beyond naive, the truth usually lies perhaps not in the middle, but certainly contains shadings of both.

Nobody said this wouldn't sting a little, but we should not be distracted by a bee in the car to the point of driving full speed into a cement bridge support.

Cheers, and here's looking forward to the day when I will be able to waste my law degree on this nonsense again.

rr

 

[EWR_FO]

The 744 frames have no use? Are you kidding? Totally not true. You don't realize the magnitude nor the payload those things carry. The triple can't do the job.

Two less engines, much more fuel efficient, longer range, no center gear (space filled with containers), lighter gross weight (cheaper landing fees).

Show me what job the 777 can't do. When freight forwarding companies routinely buy blocks of coach seats, just so they go out vacant, in order to create more space for their freight- you don't get more efficient than that. A 744 simply could not do this on HKG-EWR.

 

[ChrisJT6]

The DOT of transportation cited Delta's bid to the coveted Haneda Airport using the 744 vice UAL / CAL bids w a 777 as the reason why they choose Delta to get 2 slots and CAL or UAL none. They wanted max compacity on the new routes and the 400 gives it to them. Apparently regulators disagree with you...so do the cargo haulers who have brought in a lot of rev in good and bad times.

 

[ChrisJT6]

Yesterday the executive VP of flight ops told a group of returning CAL furloughee's that the "most vulnerable aircraft in the merged company were UAL 75's and 74's".......those are the aircraft being targeted for reductions should reductions be necessary......Those 74's aren't gonna be here in 24 months. CAL has NEVER been a 74 company. The CAL management team is running this show and they have no use for those frames. They don't think its a viable frame going forward.

The UAL MEC knows this, they must or they haven't been paying attention. This is a seniority grab pure and simple. If we have to go the way of USAir, so be it. We're not going to capitulate here, it's not going to happen.

Once this CAL VP of flight OPS realizes the 744 is a big part of UAL hauling more USPS cargo across the Pacific than any pax carrier in the world and how much revenue is attached to that use...he will think twice about early 744 reductions.