Mesaba VS. Pinnacle

[xjcaptain]

The difference is that XJ GOT AIRFRAMES from 9e merely shrinking is not the trigger. You should not comment if you do not understand the process. If you grew with airframes shifted from 9E to XJ the legal posturing would start and frankly you would not have a choice. Plain and Simple. By the way there was little in the way of high road with a 1 for 3 year seniority integration and permanent fence from the jets.

Actually I do know some of the process as I was a part of it. Were you? First of all there needs to be a DIRECT transfer of aircraft/assets. That did not occur. NWA cut 9E's contract. 9E returned the aircraft to Saab leasing. NWA awarded the contract to XJ and XJ acquired the aircraft from Saab leasing. The aircraft did not directly go from 1 to the other. Using your theory crews would go with the aircraft anytime one airline got rid of them and another picked them up. The 1 to 3 was for Jetstream pilots it was 2 to 1 for Saab pilots. And once again you are in left field as there was no permanent fence from the jets. There was a delay alowing people who were on the XJ list prior to the 9E pilots a channce to upgrade first. Once that group had the chance the 9E pilots were free to upgrade to any equipment that XJ flies.

We'll there goes your argument, anything else you would like to comment on?

 

[n32jk]

Five characters...pulled ....

 

[n32jk]

Actually I do know some of the process as I was a part of it. Were you? First of all there needs to be a DIRECT transfer of aircraft/assets. That did not occur. NWA cut 9E's contract. 9E returned the aircraft to Saab leasing. NWA awarded the contract to XJ and XJ acquired the aircraft from Saab leasing. The aircraft did not directly go from 1 to the other. Using your theory crews would go with the aircraft anytime one airline got rid of them and another picked them up. The 1 to 3 was for Jetstream pilots it was 2 to 1 for Saab pilots. And once again you are in left field as there was no permanent fence from the jets. There was a delay alowing people who were on the XJ list prior to the 9E pilots a channce to upgrade first. Once that group had the chance the 9E pilots were free to upgrade to any equipment that XJ flies.

We'll there goes your argument, anything else you would like to comment on?

You're facts are not quite correct. I am not going to get into a fight here. Anyway the fence is correct as you stated. Permanent was not a good choice of words, just everyone on the XJ list prior to implementation was a pretty large number of people to assimilate. The implementation of frragmentation was when the J31's were taken as a whole by XJ. That like any shift of existing CRJ's constitutes fragmentation. Again agreed on by the respective MEC's.

Yes I was there...(not at xJ) all the way back when XJ had few san antonio sewer pipes.

With all this said...I do support XJ pilots in their fight .... completely....

 

[xjcaptain]

You're facts are not quite correct. I am not going to get into a fight here. Anyway the fence is correct as you stated. Permanent was not a good choice of words, just everyone on the XJ list prior to implementation was a pretty large number of people to assimilate. The implementation of frragmentation was when the J31's were taken as a whole by XJ. That like any shift of existing CRJ's constitutes fragmentation. Again agreed on by the respective MEC's.

Yes I was there...(not at xJ) all the way back when XJ had few san antonio sewer pipes.

With all this said...I do support XJ pilots in their fight .... completely....

The J31's were never taken by XJ. We have never operated J31's. Any comment on when XJ pilots were looking at going to 9E but nobody at 9E ALPA would consider it?

 

[n32jk]

The J31's were never taken by XJ. We have never operated J31's. Any comment on when XJ pilots were looking at going to 9E but nobody at 9E ALPA would consider it?

9E never took airframes from XJ....better see if any of your more senior buddies at XJ can give you a little history lesson.

 

[xjcaptain]

9E never took airframes from XJ....better see if any of your more senior buddies at XJ can give you a little history lesson.

I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying that we got J31's from 9E? XJ has operated Be-99's, F27's, DHC-8's, SA-227's, SF340, AVRO's.....but no J31's.

 

[saabass]

I'm not sure there is one pilot at XJ that would go to 9e... even if it was offered.

 

[DoinTime]

You can argue all you want but what it all comes down to is that even the XJ MEC agreed that the contractual triggers of LOA21 paragraph G had not been met at any point during the PCL growth phase.

 

[XJWRENCH]

"I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying that we got J31's from 9E? XJ has operated Be-99's, F27's, DHC-8's, SA-227's, SF340, AVRO's.....but no J31's."

Don't forget our 2 ... ummm I mean 1 crj-200..... umm I mean we used to..

 

[xjcaptain]

"I'm not sure I get your point. Are you saying that we got J31's from 9E? XJ has operated Be-99's, F27's, DHC-8's, SA-227's, SF340, AVRO's.....but no J31's."

Don't forget our 2 ... ummm I mean 1 crj-200..... umm I mean we used to..

You are correct, My bad, how could I have forgotton about our CRJ "Fleet"!

 

[xjgearbtch]

Now I heard our mec asked and 9E pretty much "tabled" the discussion. I would like for the respective mec's to answer tse rumors. anyway it's to late to fix it. what's done is done.

Let's concentrate on the true battle. Those crooks in management.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Sounds like "brand scope" is a total failure.

 

[PCL_128]

Any comment on when XJ pilots were looking at going to 9E but nobody at 9E ALPA would consider it?

Please get your facts straight. Please contact your Chairman, Captain Wychor. I have personally discussed the issue of LOA 21 with him, and he has made it clear that the MSA MEC does not believe that the terms of that LOA should be activated at this point. At no time has the MSA MEC ever believed that the LOA should be activated to allow XJ pilots to come to PCL. There has never been a request by Captain Wychor or any other member of your MEC to even consider implementing this LOA up to this point.

 

[CptMurf]

deleted

 

[profit]

Please get your facts straight. Please contact your Chairman, Captain Wychor. I have personally discussed the issue of LOA 21 with him, and he has made it clear that the MSA MEC does not believe that the terms of that LOA should be activated at this point. At no time has the MSA MEC ever believed that the LOA should be activated to allow XJ pilots to come to PCL. There has never been a request by Captain Wychor or any other member of your MEC to even consider implementing this LOA up to this point.

I'll comment on this. I was ON THE XJ MEC at that time. After the initial discussions were rebuffed by Wake Gordon and/or the 9E MEC, we decided it probably wasn't worth starting a legal fight with pilots who are supposed to be our brothers and sisters. So no, the formal request was never really made.

We should probably let this one die now since we are all having to fight the evil at NWA managment. Lets stick together for once.

 

[xjcaptain]

The point I was trying to make was that when we made the offer to the 9E pilots, the conditions for the ALPA fragmentation policy to kick in TECHNICALLY had not been met. We took the high road and made the offer anyway. While the policy had probably TECHNICALLY not been met when we went to 9E for the reciprical part of the agreement, all we got in return was a bunch of legalease telling us that the conditions of LOA 21 had not been totally met. That is where the difference comes in. We were looking for a way to help our ALPA brothers, while they were looking for a way out of the LOA. How many would have went, I would guess probably almost none. It just would have been nice for 9E to make the offer.

 

[redflyer65]

The bottom line wasn't airframes, it was total block hours. When both MEC chairman and others did the math it didn't come close to achieving the trigger. Even Wychor agreed and that was the end of it. There was no need for a formal request from Mesaba or any type of denial by Pinnacle. It just wasn't there.

On another note, I'll walk the line with you guys anyday. I'm getting tired of the whipsaw.

 

[Dodge]

Yes, this has been talked about way too much. XJ did not need to offer anything to the Express pilots. Nor did Pinnacle need to offer anything to XJ pilots.

 

[Terry Hunter]

I had forgotten about this whole historical event until it was brought up. Perhaps for some, it isn't important enough to put back on trial toward determining one pilot group's stance toward another. I say let sleeping dogs lie on this issue.

 

[wmudriver]

Only AWAC and XJET formally offered prefferential interviews to furloughed XJ guys back in the winter/spring. 9E did not (they were not in my future plans for employment). Just an oberservation.