Mesaba VS. Pinnacle

[YourPilotFriend]

In 2 years NWA has signed on for the purchase rights to over $20 billion dollars in aircraft; 68 787's + 132 CRJ's + 108 ERJ's.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Great Article!

Check it out...

In-Flight Peanuts

In free market free fall, pilots compete to stock shelves at Costco
Broadly speaking, there are two categories of people we don't want making minimum wage: Public servants who should not be so hungry they are susceptible to bribery (Dean Zimmerman, anyone? Brian Herron? Joe Biernat?) and those whose skills are essential to public safety. Building inspectors, for instance, shouldn't be too dimwitted to spot the brittle concrete in a sports arena or too amoral to look past it. So what about the wisdom of paying airline pilots less than Wal-Mart pays greeters?

Figuring out how pilots are paid makes deciphering how much each seat on an airplane can fetch seem like child's play. But according to the Air Line Pilots Association, if Mesaba gets the wage concessions it wants from its pilots, new hires could end up taking home $11,000-$13,000 a year. With wages like that, do you think the folks flying the planes are going to be the sharpest knives in the drawer?

Rest of article here...
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2006/10/in-flight_peanu.asp#more

 

[Northern Lights]

That was great - in a sad sort of way. I wish that we could get something like that published in the StarTrib, or Freep. Maybe Don Shelby could do one of his "Good Question" segments on the number 4.

 

[Schwanker]

If you guys want to pass on the 70 seaters, then there is no problemo. No seats, no jets. The shiney new jets come with strings attached, and if you don't want them fine...BUT consider this, those jets, no matter WHERE they go, still have scope limits attached to them, so for every 51-76 seater flying somewhere else, that is one less for your crew.


Nu

NuGuy,

You said it exactly right.

Mesaba can operate up to 36 76 seaters without giving up 1/2 Capt and 1/2 FO seats. Pinnacle would have to give up the seats to get any of these jets.

The choice is quite simple. Either Mesaba and/or Pinnacle give up super seniority rights to NWA pilots for these jets in the event of a flowback, or the jets simply go to Compass where mainline furloughees have rights to 100% of the seats in the event of future furloughs.

I believe Compass was created due to the current Airlinks not being remotely interested in giving up super seniority rights to furloughed NWA pilots in exchange for these jets. NWA mainline wouldn't give up the scope relief if there weren't jobs for current and future furloughs. Compass was the answer.

The decision remains the same. If Pinnacle / Mesaba ever want to see anything over 50 seats, they will need to give super seniority rights to furloughed NWA pilots (with the exception of possibly placing 36 aircraft at Mesaba). I would think NWA management would rather place these with Compass as well for 2 reasons. 1- it will lower the longevity rates on the equipment and 2- it will keep the 36 jet option open at Mesaba for future "pilot whipping" actions by management. If either Mesaba or Pinnacle agree to super seniority rights in the event of future mainline furloughs, the jets will come with it. The choice is theirs.

Before some of you go off the handle, I couldn't care less either way. I don't have any desire to flow back to either Mesaba or Pinnacle. Just providing some info.

 

[easydoesit]

Don't be so quick to say Mesaba can only get 36 more airplanes without giving up seats. Q400's are very efficient are not included in any NWA scope. I believe this will be the trump card...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Before some of you go off the handle, I couldn't care less either way. I don't have any desire to flow back to either Mesaba or Pinnacle. Just providing some info.

Brand Scope would fix all this ridiculous discussion between three groups that still don't get that should be working as one.
I understand that you have no desire to flow down. I'm sure non of the 49 pilots that did get the job here at PCL didn't want to either. Now, they are being recalled and I for one will miss quite a bit of them that I have befriended over the years. Maybe I look at things in a very oversimplified way, but those 49 that came shouldn't have had to start from the bottom. They should have displaced down. Would that have gotten me out of a job? Again? Sure. But now that things are starting to turn around and is looking like mainline will start hiring off the street in 07, the airlinkers should have that shot. But we still don't get it, the mainline driver still finds pleasure in seeing the linkers go through what's happening at PCL and XJ. Still the mainline driver finds appealing to say "those jobs don't belong to you"

So, really, you have a choice, provide %50 of the seats, or no jets. Take your pick. And read closely, %50 of those seats are PIC positions. So you can bet YOUR a$$ that either you accept the pilots with the aircraft, or you can pass. They're not your seats to "give away", NWA pilots already own them.​

Nu

You know what? I agree with you. therefore I must ask, Why did you outsourced ANY regional flying? I agree with you. there shouldn't be a single A/C in the sky with NWA colors that doesn't have a NWA SENIORITY pilot flying it.This bickering attitudes of "Us and Them" is exactly why NWA management has being so successful at getting everything they wanted out of this bankruptcy.

Thank you to all the pilots from Mesaba, Spirit and NWA Flight Attendants. That cheered us on during the picketing in DTW.

 

[xjhawk]

here is the deal from this mesaba pilot. I am at odds on IF i would vote yes to the contract which our union proposed. I am so pissed at this company/industry i am ready to let this ship sink. Here is the deal, where can i replace a 30 grand a year job? anywhere! and i would be home everynight! But here is also the deal, if i take a 6% pay cut and we replace the 36 planes we lost already, I would actually end up with a pay raise and the new pilots would not be paid any lower than i was two years ago. So i am torn.....DO i cave and sign what the union proposed and bet on a early upgrade and better schedule? Or do i vote no and get the heck out of this industry? I do not know, but i know i will not sign anything the company Proposes.......IE.......that crap of a 5 year contact...and all the crap that goes with it. So if you are a company rep.....count on my no vote and a walk if you impose..

 

[Schwanker]

Don't be so quick to say Mesaba can only get 36 more airplanes without giving up seats. Q400's are very efficient are not included in any NWA scope. I believe this will be the trump card...

Good point. Very true.

Management just bought 2 new types of aircraft. Granted that they seem to be about as incompetent as they come, but do you really think they would buy a third? I'm not knocking the Q400's. I just think the odds of getting them just went down drastically, but you never know.

 

[Schwanker]

Brand Scope would fix all this ridiculous discussion between three groups that still don't get that should be working as one.
I understand that you have no desire to flow down. I'm sure non of the 49 pilots that did get the job here at PCL didn't want to either. Now, they are being recalled and I for one will miss quite a bit of them that I have befriended over the years. Maybe I look at things in a very oversimplified way, but those 49 that came shouldn't have had to start from the bottom. They should have displaced down. Would that have gotten me out of a job? Again? Sure. But now that things are starting to turn around and is looking like mainline will start hiring off the street in 07, the airlinkers should have that shot. But we still don't get it, the mainline driver still finds pleasure in seeing the linkers go through what's happening at PCL and XJ. Still the mainline driver finds appealing to say "those jobs don't belong to you"

You know what? I agree with you. therefore I must ask, Why did you outsourced ANY regional flying? I agree with you. there shouldn't be a single A/C in the sky with NWA colors that doesn't have a NWA SENIORITY pilot flying it.This bickering attitudes of "Us and Them" is exactly why NWA management has being so successful at getting everything they wanted out of this bankruptcy.

Thank you to all the pilots from Mesaba, Spirit and NWA Flight Attendants. That cheered us on during the picketing in DTW.

Dumb Pilot--let me rephrase, I will not take a job at Compass, Pinnacle or Mesaba. I am back on active duty so at current time, the flow back issue is not important to me personnally. It could become important to those on the bottom of the active list if furloughs are in the future. These days you never know. I just don't think there are a lot of current furloughees standing by to bump an Airlink captian from their seat as can be seen by the recall acceptance rate. Most have found something better for the time being.

As far as mainliners "finding pleasure in seeing linkers...." I really don't think it's true. Most if not all wish both Airlink pilot groups the best. I certainly hope both groups get contracts that they deserve and not the crap management would like to shove down their throats.

As far as saying "those jobs don't belong to you..." is a matter of interpretation. Mainline pilots have paid for the Scope through previous contracts and will obviously try to keep as many jobs at mainline as possible. They will also try to protect the bottom of the list if the number of pilots looking for work suddenly outnumbers the number of jobs available at mainline. This is the unions job! To be cynical to someone simply because they work for Airlink is pure B.S. and that dude is obviously a Juliet Alfa.

Wishing the best for all Red Tail pilots!

Schwanker

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Update: Goldman Sach's is now buying mesaba's debt to other companies.