Mesaba Vacancy Award Posted

[ikillbigfoot]

When do you think the new hires will start at Mesaba that are interviewing this month?

 

[gnx99]

When do you think the new hires will start at Mesaba that are interviewing this month?

May-ish.

 

[ikillbigfoot]

I see. Is there going to be a differential pay for Saab FO's vs. CRJ900 FO's? How about for Captains? Any guesses on upgrade their (My guess is 3-7 years).

Are these accurate pay scales from airlinepilotcentral.com?

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/mesaba.html

 

[Livinthewhat]

Recall

I haven't heard a thing from the company...Not sure I want to but still a tough decision...

 

[saabservant]

Saab and CRJ Fo pay is the same. Called a "blended" rate. Good for Saab, bad for CRJ pilots.
Most current FO's will not take the CRJ, unless they are so junior they foresee no upgrade for two years. This is due to the 2 year seatlock.

Tread with caution, all prospective new-hires. MSA/NWA mgmt. will rejoice in playing games with your career. Just ask the 6-8 year FO's here.
Best to keep your other applications updated, and take a better offer if it comes (I know,..."but I really want to work in MSP/DTW/MEM").
Trust me, it is not worth it! Go to a better company if you can.

If you do come here, the pilots and instructors/check airmen will treat you right. Management is another story.....

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The CRJ900's have to be bound to the NWA scope contract. this includes a higher FO rate on the CRJ900.

 

[ikillbigfoot]

interesting, so I guess we don't know if there's going to be a different pay on the 900 vs the Saab?

 

[xjhawk]

if that is the case........

The CRJ900's have to be bound to the NWA scope contract. this includes a higher FO rate on the CRJ900.

well, then we have a lot of other issues as well. I would forsee a flow up and down as per that scope. Maybe even a seniority number. I would also like to see those 900 rates for the captains and FO's. I am sure it would be more pleasurable to fly that 900 as an FO for 40 an hour than fly as a saab captain at 49 an hour. But then you must look at the PIC time factor!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Looking at the current scheduled route projections from this year into 2009, the compass/XJ 76 seat jets will start to replace the DC-9. If age 65 happens, mainline will see an additional 250 mainline furloughs until we receive the 10th 787. Compass now has a staff so I'd be wary of going there...............

 

[xjhawk]

i would not mind hearing from alpa who is currently at alpa....i mean some one has to know

 

[XJohXJ]

If they did make an increase in CR9 FO pay, then they'd have to let FO's bid into it and remove any FO seatlocks. That's why I think it's unlikely to happen.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Saab and CRJ Fo pay is the same. Called a "blended" rate. Good for Saab, bad for CRJ pilots.
Most current FO's will not take the CRJ, unless they are so junior they foresee no upgrade for two years. This is due to the 2 year seatlock.

Tread with caution, all prospective new-hires. MSA/NWA mgmt. will rejoice in playing games with your career. Just ask the 6-8 year FO's here.
Best to keep your other applications updated, and take a better offer if it comes (I know,..."but I really want to work in MSP/DTW/MEM").
Trust me, it is not worth it! Go to a better company if you can.

If you do come here, the pilots and instructors/check airmen will treat you right. Management is another story.....

AAAAAAAAAAA-MEN!!!! Run, all prospective youth!!! Run! DO NOT come to the Northwest Red-Tail... No Joke.

MM

 

[ikillbigfoot]

AAAAAAAAAAA-MEN!!!! Run, all prospective youth!!! Run! DO NOT come to the Northwest Red-Tail... No Joke.

MM

Your last years have all been down hill, as they have been elsewhere. If I grew up in MN, hunt MN, fish MN, and love doing all the redneck things that I grew up doing. A 10$/pay cut (1st year, 7per hour pay cut 2nd year) could be worth it.

Plus my wife is a nurse. In this East Coast city her wage is 19/hr.

In MN they are usually ~22-26/hr.

Thus the wages cancel each other out exactly.

It would be a no brainer but as you said. NWA/red tail managment has no soul. Its very very tempting but I will probably SAY NO to whoring myself out to the redtail managment so I can be their tangible asset.

We are all getting screwed on pay folks! We all need to step up and say NO to managment and we need to fight back for what was lost!

Managements next way to keep things efficient is to pay young pilots low wages in a shiny new CRJ900 or EMB175/195, gradually working in to the DC9/F100/MD80/737's markets.

This ******************** has got to stop.

We are slowly eating ourselves from the inside out.

 

[ikillbigfoot]

My theory of the future-

After the CRJ900 is market saturated the Boeing 797/CRJ950/EMB350 -a 100 seater used for 'regional flying' w/ hiring mins @ 1000/100 w/ similary pay scales to the low scales that most of us our accepting.

 

[gnx99]

FYI, There's another vacancy revision out. A few small changes, and the bottom 8 guys are listed as having "hew hire" class.? I'm assuming they never finished it the first time around?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Probably the CRJ class that was sent home a week into it... Very surprised any of them bothered to wait it out and come back. Not surprised that the recall bypassed all the way to them though.

 

[airmasn]

The CRJ900's have to be bound to the NWA scope contract. this includes a higher FO rate on the CRJ900.

as usual, youre wrong again...
where do you get this crap from?
NWA will incorporate the existing contract that mesaba pilots operate under. maybe there will be a flow up/down, maybe not. there will be no change to FO payrates due to nwa scope, only as a result of growth but it will be across the board for saab and crj. the blended rate is attractive to these management turds. Mesaba will be operated as a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary, the first 36 900's are avro replacements, then the NWA pilots get 1/2 crj jobs above 36 if times ever dictated (furloughs, displacements, ie).

 

[WMUSIGPI]

as usual, youre wrong again...
where do you get this crap from?
NWA will incorporate the existing contract that mesaba pilots operate under. maybe there will be a flow up/down, maybe not. there will be no change to FO payrates due to nwa scope, only as a result of growth but it will be across the board for saab and crj. the blended rate is attractive to these management turds. Mesaba will be operated as a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary, the first 36 900's are avro replacements, then the NWA pilots get 1/2 crj jobs above 36 if times ever dictated (furloughs, displacements, ie).

NWA furloughed pilots get first chance at CRJ #37 and up. If they don't want them they aren't required to take the seats. They can stay furloughed.

 

[airmasn]

they are only entitled to 1/2 the jobs on crj #37 and above, not all.

 

[JamesD]

It is all of the seats above according to the wholly owned scope. Also the pay rates may end up being higher but the work rules could get a whole lot worse. All depends on NWAALPA and management getting the details done

 

[airmasn]

I assure you there will be no changes to XJ payrates and work rules as a result of the purchase of XJ by NWA. The seats of the first 36 crj 900s operated by XJ will stay XJ. CRJ #37 and above are not grandfathered in and the NWA pilots, if there is a furlough ie, will be entitled to 1/2 those jobs if it ever came to it. there may or may not be a flow up/down, but I assure you this info is what is being told to NWA and XJ pilots by their MEC and LEC reps.

 

[fowingman]

i was hired and am waiting for a class date, according to H.R either april 23 (or 24 ) , or the june 4th class. depending on if the end of april class fills up. Anyone know how thats going?
and anyone have an idea of how many current mesaba pilots are going to take the crj900 spot?
I'm just curious about where the vacancy's will mostly be, saab or rj900

 

[JamesD]

I assure you that this scope thing is not over for XJ. Your MEC is always just as surprised as everyone else

 

[YourPilotFriend]

as usual, youre wrong again...
where do you get this crap from?
NWA will incorporate the existing contract that mesaba pilots operate under. maybe there will be a flow up/down, maybe not. there will be no change to FO payrates due to nwa scope, only as a result of growth but it will be across the board for saab and crj. the blended rate is attractive to these management turds. Mesaba will be operated as a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary, the first 36 900's are avro replacements, then the NWA pilots get 1/2 crj jobs above 36 if times ever dictated (furloughs, displacements, ie).

Mesaba is an SJET and will be treated like an Sjet unless an LOA is struck allowing a carve out. The rules of Sjet are bound by the NWA contract, and a separate contract negotiated by NWA pilots for NWA pilots. Managements goal here is to get those sjets operated under the mesaba contract because it is considerably better for management than the compass one. I guarantee you compass will be canceled if NWA is allowed to use the mesaba contract.

 

[JamesD]

I have to say for once I agree with you and I believe NWA will convert the EMB up a size to replace the nine's and also alow mesaba to take on all 90 options for a total of 126 C900 and NWA will have 72 EMB

 

[airmasn]

time will tell...

 

[XJohXJ]

The thing is (and I'm not commenting on the value/goodness of the contracts) Mesaba has a negotiated and ratified contract. So does NWA. They appear to be in conflict regarding 76 seat jet scope.

However, conditions of the NWA contract can not be forced on the Mesaba pilots. We already have a contract, also with a scope clause (again, I am not commenting on the goodness/non-goodness of it).

The only options are:

1) No 76 seat jets for Mesaba.
2) An agreement (equally agreed to on BOTH sides) between NWA and XJ pilot groups.
3) Merger of pilot groups, with a subsequent negotiated contract for the merged parties.
4) Relaxation of the specific scope clause by NWA pilots in return for some other value added to their contract.
5) No action (not likely).

Whatever may happen, alterations can not be made to the Mesaba contract, unless they are agreed to in an LOA (or another 1113c happens, which is not likely at this stage).

 

[xjhawk]

The question remains for many of us FO's, to take the 900 and take the seat lock. This might seem like a dumb move, but if we get a lot more than 36 new 900's, in two years time, a pilot could go from two years of good schedules in msp flying a nice plane to nice cities (with and APU) to upgrading in that same plane.

The other option is to wait for the quick Saab upgrade to get CAPT pay and PIC time. Lets look at the money. Take a 4-5 year FO making what......33-35 an hour or a capt on the saab making 49 an hour. The pay difference is not that much. A FO with a good schedule can make at that rate just under 40 grand a year with a good QOL. A new upgraded capt will be on reserve (75 guarantee) with a terrible QOL. So figure that pilot making 45 grand a year.

Minus your commuting costs and QOL, the pay increase as a Saab capt does not mean you will be making a lot more money. So the only factor you as an FO should be is how bad do you want that PIC time?

Oh now lets look at the upgrade time. We are losing a lot more than the 7-8 pilots a month than what is normally forcasted. figure we lose 150 pilots between now and the time the 36 900's are on property, and gain 360 pilot positions, thats a net gain of approximately 510 pilots. SO what will our total pilot number be? what, 850 pilots? So if you were number 500 on the list now, you will be about 350 in a year and a half out of a total of 850. The add additional growth on top of that. Say another 36 jets.

OH my i am going to stop now. its your choice, QOL or PIC. I personally am going to try to split the difference. How will I do that? Well, I will never commute to a reserve schedule unless its for like 80-100 an hour, and that ain't happening here.

 

[Whataboutbob]

No such thing as a dumb move xjhawk, you have to do what is best for you and not worry what other people think is the right thing to do. I have also tried to crunch the numbers on what is a better move (right seat of SF340 or CRJ900). Im probably going to get recalled into the SF340 so it doesn't matter, but depending on how the voluntary furlough guys set up there preference bid there is a small chance of coming back on the CRJ.

Im not sure what your senority # is XJhawk but for me Im in the mid 500's and lets say I got MSP on the next vacancy award for the CRJ. The variable that throws off my #'s is how many planes will they put in MSP before they start awarding DTW and MEM. If for example after 3 airplanes they start building up DTW and MEM I could end up pretty junior on it for a while and I would imagine the schedules won't be all that efficient to start out with. So Im guessing it would be a lot of sitting around and 75hr guarantee. Where as on the SF340 you could probably get a more efficient schedule and a better QOL.

I can't remember what the insurance requirements are for upgrading but with about 2300 total time and 700 crew time I might need to fly the saab to get the hours quicker since it seems they fly more efficient schedules. At least that was the case when the AVRO was around.

Also for me it would be nice to fly the Saab in the right seat before trying to upgrade on it with no Turbo prop experience if I come back on the CRJ.

Another thing I've thought about which is probably going to catch me some crap on here is, it is going to be like two different airlines again with the two different fleets. Would you rather fly with the older crowd on the CRJ or the younger crowd on the Saab. Im not saying there are pros or cons to either situation but for some there might be.

 

[nellie2110]

Dont think it will matter. Almost all furloughs are going to the saab. Revised bid to 150 mem saab fo for round two. So that plus the other 50 leaves us with 200 recallswhich should cover anyone who is coming back. All newhires to the jets except for a few that will cover saab captain upgrades from fo spots.