Mesaba says it will be an asset transfer

[mesaba13]

Until today, "Asset Transfer" was only a rumor and most thought that if XJ guys went to 9E we would be taking our contract terms with us. With an asset transfer the only thing we take with us is whatever seniority ALPA agrees on.

 

[Grinder10]

All I can say is that it looks like our management is being told by their overlords to start to dig in for a fight to stop the talk of a single seniority list. Our union has to fight to stop this as it would screw more of us than any other scenerio. This is not good news and once again I think that other airlines (Pinnacle) has gotten this news before we did as I heard this said last week by some pinnacle jerk on another web board. Let me just hope that it is date of hire if we get asset tranfered and not a single seniority list. if I am asset transfered over there then I want our contract to go with us and my date of hire. I had nothing to do with some letter of agreement signed 10-15 years ago! Where is our unions response to this? I have always said that they cannot just show their hand in their negotiations but this is rediculous. Show our hand, stand strong and do not give an inch. I would like to know that 9E's union is with us and not going to offer us some rediculous ratio for our seniority! We are being bought by a holdings company, not Pinnacle. So if I get transfered to them, I should stand on an equal footing as any other pilot. DATE OF HIRE-That being said I would rather have one list, one contract and a fair intergration.

It will not be date of hire. That is the catastrophic stance that US Airways took in their merger and many years later they still do not have a contract. If the two MECs can't come to some sort of agreement, then it will be decided by an arbitrator. Look at Delta/Northwest to see how the SLI might go.

I'll be interested to see how this works out. Will XJ post a vacancy for x number of CA's and x number of FO's? I assume the most senior would want to come over just so they wouldn't have to commute to the northeast. However only the most senior CA's and FO's would be able to get on the life raft, leaving many at new XJ against their wishes. Maybe they would then take the pilots who transfer and merge them by the relative seniority on that they held on the RJ's at XJ. If they merged them by company seniority they would likely go on top of nearly all CA's then the FO's would go on top of that list and create a windfall for the transfers. This could go down in a hundred different ways.

 

[avrorj-85]

It will not be date of hire. That is the catastrophic stance that US Airways took in their merger and many years later they still do not have a contract. If the two MECs can't come to some sort of agreement, then it will be decided by an arbitrator. Look at Delta/Northwest to see how the SLI might go.

I'll be interested to see how this works out. Will XJ post a vacancy for x number of CA's and x number of FO's? I assume the most senior would want to come over just so they wouldn't have to commute to the northeast. However only the most senior CA's and FO's would be able to get on the life raft, leaving many at new XJ against their wishes. Maybe they would then take the pilots who transfer and merge them by the relative seniority on that they held on the RJ's at XJ. If they merged them by company seniority they would likely go on top of nearly all CA's then the FO's would go on top of that list and create a windfall for the transfers. This could go down in a hundred different ways.

As far as the arbitor goes, we were told this week in RGS pizza lunch that we pilots would get an assessment to pay lawyer fees for the seniority list arbitration because ALPA wants to stay out of it for legal liability reasons. I wonder what that bill will be like. Yee ha. The more I hear about this the less I like.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

As far as the arbitor goes, we were told this week in RGS pizza lunch that we pilots would get an assessment to pay lawyer fees for the seniority list arbitration because ALPA wants to stay out of it for legal liability reasons. I wonder what that bill will be like. Yee ha. The more I hear about this the less I like.

Great, that sounds to me like "take a temporary pay cut to prepare to be completely thrown under the bus in this crap and end up with a large permanent paycut and probable near impossible commute in many of our cases."

When all the groups are already ALPA and they are wanting nothing to do with it that screams to me that at least one group is expected to get royally screwed at the others gains.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

It is against ALPA policy to use union dues when intergrating 2 or more ALPA carriers.. the Pinnacle and colgan pilots will have an assesment too.


By the way atleast yours is gonna be used. I got assesed $240 at comair a few years back. I have since left and will never see that money again.

 

[buscap]

None of my business, but this is definitely an opportunity for bar raising at the regional level. The two pilot groups can cooperate on making the most of the merger or limiting the whipsaw, depending on whether or not the parent company keeps them separate.

Or the two groups can fight like short-minded idiots and make US AIRWAYS look like a nice synergistic event.

My advice is, follow the example of the Delta pilots. The Merger with NWA seemed to work out very much in the favor of the NWA group, disproportionate to the respective size and financial condition of the two carriers. But the Delta group seemed to be very determined to maintain a long term focus about the whole thing. At least that's my take on it, based on jumpseat conversations.

Pragmatism ruled the day, rather than a petty get-mine mentality.

But of course it's all a moot point until the company actually lays out their plans, which clearly has not happened. Until then, your best hope lies in your respective MECs becoming kissy-kissy buddies in the tradition of Brokeback Mountain. We're talking swapping out pitcher and catcher here people!!!

 

[avrorj-85]

Maybe our three pilot groups could just call Comair and see if use the merger money they have been saving up!! It doesn't look like they are going to be using it any time soon! (just kidding for all you Comair folks)

 

[WMUSIGPI]

None of my business, but this is definitely an opportunity for bar raising at the regional level. The two pilot groups can cooperate on making the most of the merger or limiting the whipsaw, depending on whether or not the parent company keeps them separate.

Or the two groups can fight like short-minded idiots and make US AIRWAYS look like a nice synergistic event.

My advice is, follow the example of the Delta pilots. The Merger with NWA seemed to work out very much in the favor of the NWA group, disproportionate to the respective size and financial condition of the two carriers. But the Delta group seemed to be very determined to maintain a long term focus about the whole thing. At least that's my take on it, based on jumpseat conversations.

Pragmatism ruled the day, rather than a petty get-mine mentality.

But of course it's all a moot point until the company actually lays out their plans, which clearly has not happened. Until then, your best hope lies in your respective MECs becoming kissy-kissy buddies in the tradition of Brokeback Mountain. We're talking swapping out pitcher and catcher here people!!!

That is true and would be nice if that worked here. But the difference was Delta/NWA management stated right from the start they wanted the pilots on board before going ahead with the merger.
Pinnacle/Mesaba have been making it very clear they are NOT interested in a merger or interested in the pilots being on board with things. They don't care how we comingle ourselves as long as it's kept as 2 separate groups (the ones that follow the jets onto Pinnacles list/contract and the other that stays behind to merge with Colgan) in the end which they will then be able to play against each other, no thanks.

 

[bri5150]

Pinnacle/Mesaba have been making it very clear they are NOT interested in a merger or interested in the pilots being on board with things. They don't care how we comingle ourselves as long as it's kept as 2 separate groups (the ones that follow the jets onto Pinnacles list/contract and the other that stays behind to merge with Colgan) in the end which they will then be able to play against each other, no thanks.

Where is everyone getting this stuff? I haven't heard anything "very clear" about 2 lists. In fact, I have heard people talking about managment hinting at an integrated list. Yes, there will be 2 companies. Yes, there may be 2 "groups", but you will be able to bid between "groups" when your seniority can hold it. At least that is what we are trying to do. I am as skeptical as anyone about this mess, but I have honestly not heard one bit of negative talk towards the pilot groups from any of the managment teams. Maybe I am missing a memo or something. Well, off to check the status board I guess.

 

[kellwolf]

Where is everyone getting this stuff? I haven't heard anything "very clear" about 2 lists. In fact, I have heard people talking about managment hinting at an integrated list. Yes, there will be 2 companies. Yes, there may be 2 "groups", but you will be able to bid between "groups" when your seniority can hold it. At least that is what we are trying to do. I am as skeptical as anyone about this mess, but I have honestly not heard one bit of negative talk towards the pilot groups from any of the managment teams. Maybe I am missing a memo or something. Well, off to check the status board I guess.

Unless Pinnacle Corp has had a huge change of heart since the scope fight between Pinnacle and Colgan, I find it hard to believe they want one seniority list and two different certs a la Republic. It would be much better for the pilots of all three groups if it was one list with fences/seat locks allowing transfer between lists, but that would be a dream situation. Given management's past stance on SLIs between 9E and 9L, I'm not hopeful.