Mesaba reaches TA - Details pending...

[XJohXJ]

Please remember that the MEC and the NC bust their backs to come up with the best agreement they possibly can. They are working against a group of managers who are totally greedy, selfish, power hungry, and have 99% of the deck entirely and solidly rigged in favor of unethical corporate greed. Our team does the absolute best they can, and then it is the pilots who ultimately accept or reject. Please also remember that there are currently over 200 pilots on furlough, who do not get to vote at all.

Of course, no one cares about these points, 'cause we're on flightinfo.com, after all.

 

[Mysteryofflight]

I said it before and I'll say it again.. NOT ONE CENT!

 

[Simon Says]

Lets see, Will Not Accept A TA Untill ALL Members of the Coalition Have TA's.

What happened to that?

You are absolutely correct. We all come up with a TA together.

Plus everyone is correct. It is not a TA yet.....it is only a negotiated agreement that needs to be voted on the MEC to bring it to the pilot group to be voted on. That is when it becomes an actual TA...or tentative agreement.

 

[SteelerMan]

I don't know Gumby, I sat there and listened to them tell me what the open items were, what the "group" had decided the minimum was via wilson polling, etc., and then I saw the TA which was far less than what we were supposed to be willing to strike for. They didn't say this is what we might strike for, they said this is what we will strike for. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. It's not that I didn't get what I wanted, the pilot group didn't get what we were supposed to be willing to strike for as per the MEC. Maybe they didn't lie, they just changed their minds, either way it didn't play out as advertised, that is for sure. It's not meant to be a personal attack on anyone, it's not whining, it's just the way it is. I'm not sure what is Cliff Claven about that. I'm not going to argue with you about it, it's in the past. I didn't like it so I left. But I feel very badly for the pilots there and I thoroughly understand their frustrations, and I would think every pilot at XJ would understand that. Good luck to you all.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I don't think if the pilots at Mesaba vote in this contract they are in anyway worse than mesa, Gojet, or skywest; This goes the same for NWA pilots who supposedly caved. The latter carriers voted in those substandard contracts in a time their companies were profitable and/or startup. The pilots at Mesaba have had their rights as works stripped of them and they are without options. They can vote no on this TA, and no matter what, they will be working under it. This is the exact same thing we were faced with at NWA mainline, although the Mesaba pilots have taken it longer because the company decided to explore its options. Pilots that have decide they do not want to be a part of the concessions have walked off the job from both Mesaba and NWA. How many pilots quit at Skywest when they said they were going to operate 90 seat at 50 seat pay?

 

[TheGuat]

Ok, why are there Mesaba pilots who are even thinking about voting yes on any TA? I don't care what may be in this TA, unless it's our current contract or better, I'm going to vote no. And this isn't an attack on our union because they have done an excellent job this past year and I understand that they are bound by the law to negotiate. But for our pilot group to actually consider voting yes is just troubling. Why should we vote in a subpar contract for growth we were probably going to get anyway. It's not our fault that NWA and Mesaba are a greedy bunch or so incompetent as to put our company in bankruptcy. They are trying to take money from us because of their greed and/or general ineptitude. I am not going to be responsible for lowering the standards of this industry. I have too much dignity to allow the promise of shiny new jets to make me say "oh yes please, pay me less to fly those". Mesaba is backed against the wall... otherwise why else would they be negotiating so furiously the past few days? Call their bluff and see what happens. That way, if we do liquidate and we have to find other jobs, at least we can tell other people that we worked for Mesaba and not have to mutter it under our breath in shame...

Are you kidding me? Your company is bankrupt. Paycuts are an inevitable result of banrkruptcy. You and your pilot group would be best served by agreeing to whatever your company needs to survive and exit bankruptcy. You can work on getting your concessions back at a later date. It's better to live to fight another day.

 

[xjlifer]

It's better to live to fight another day.

Were have I heard that before....

 

[redflyer65]

Are you kidding me? So when the company that's in a SHAM bankruptcy that never actually need the cuts to begin with tells you to bend over, your supposed to ask how far? You've got to be smoking some good crack.

What other day are you talking about? Your looking at 5 year contract with at least two more years added on for negiotiations. Do you really want to live under a crap contract for 7+ years?

 

[Poahi]

Here's the problem. ALPA at XJ is represented by a fine group of people, who no doubt, are honorable, competent and hard working people. They are there in effort to save the airline. They should be commended for coming up with a TA.

But the bottom line is that XJ claims it needs severe cuts to survive. And my question is why? Is it because the costs of shedding the AVRO’s were too great? They should be making plenty of money to cover the costs of operating the Saabs on a going forward basis.
Someone answer this:
Is it really the case that the XJ pilots are overpaid relative to the other regionals?

Are their work rules out of line with other airlines?

Why take a substandard deal to fix a temporary problem?

When XJ expands and is making boat loads of money, will you regret your decision?

On this very message board, there have been many many XJ pilots that said they wouldn't take a concessionary contract, period. Well, here we are.

By taking concessions now, what you are really doing is investing in the airline and unless substantial returns are enumerated in the TA, your payback is merely a job at lower compensation.

Everyone has to make their own personal decision. If I was close to retirement, or really had to live in domicile, I might vote for it. But if you do vote for a concessionary contract when you aren't overpaid in the first place, please do not criticize the compensation and QOL at your competitors.

Today is the other day.

 

[Soverytired]

Skywest and Mesa eat your hearts out we'll soon have all your jobs. You pricks put us in this position I hope we put you all out on the street because our new "growth contract" To every other respectable airline sorry we tried.
Don't vote Republican and I'll stop ranting.

Loser talk.

When YOU'RE given the chance to swallow concessions or walk the line (and maybe lose your job), you swallowed. Then you whine that if ONLY SOMEONE ELSE had taken that risk, you wouldn't be in this situation.

You're no better than <insert airline you don't like> because you did the same thing they did.

Don't feel bad. Most majors and regionals have been doing the same lately. The ONLY regional carrier that can stand tall is COMAIR, who acually put it all on the line when it counted during their last strike. But they might have to do it all over again.

 

[xjcaptain]

Loser talk.

When YOU'RE given the chance to swallow concessions or walk the line (and maybe lose your job), you swallowed. Then you whine that if ONLY SOMEONE ELSE had taken that risk, you wouldn't be in this situation.

You're no better than <insert airline you don't like> because you did the same thing they did.

Don't feel bad. Most majors and regionals have been doing the same lately. The ONLY regional carrier that can stand tall is COMAIR, who acually put it all on the line when it counted during their last strike. But they might have to do it all over again.

Then again you might see COMAIR as one of the first to start the slide to crappy pay when they were in the pay-for-training catagory. Seen it time and time again....pay for job.....work for basically nothing for the first year.....then whine to management that you are not making enough money and not being treated as a professional. Problem is you showed them as a new hire that you are willing to work for nothing. Kinda takes the wind out of your sails.

 

[redflyer65]

The bottom line to this is.....

Any concessions from the pilot group will finance the bankruptcy that the SLT and MAIR put the company into, plain and simple.
Then when the profits start rolling in (and they will be big), everyone can sit on the sideline with the crap work rules while management takes their juicy bonuses and orders another double scotch on the back nine.

 

[marycon]

Are you kidding me? Your company is bankrupt. Paycuts are an inevitable result of banrkruptcy. You and your pilot group would be best served by agreeing to whatever your company needs to survive and exit bankruptcy. You can work on getting your concessions back at a later date. It's better to live to fight another day.

If the company had been honest with us from the beginning then maybe. If at the start they had come to us and said "hey guys, we are in the red and we are sinking fast, what can you do to help" then I'm sure a good portion of us would have tried to help out the company. But this joke of a bankruptcy with concessions like these and the majority of us just won't stand for it. If the situation at Mesaba is so dire then why haven't they imposed yet? They have the law behind them and they have everything at their disposal to stop the hemoraging of money. If they are losing a million a week then the doors should have shut a month ago. Instead, they now decide to sit down and have a little chat with us about that nasty side effect of running a business: labor compensation. Honesty would have saved them millions of dollars in lawyer and court fees and a year of brutal labor negotiations... But this is a self induced bankruptcy in which all of Mesaba's profits were funneled up to MAIR. Thus, this is why the employees could care less if the company goes up in flames.

 

[AWACoff]

I recall holding a picket sign and sitting in a van leaving the strike center for the airport when a phone call arrived. It was the Negotiating Commitee telling us to give them just a few more minutes. This was Air Wisconsin 2001. You can make management blink.

Who is more needy... the CEOs making millions or the starving pilot who can take a job at McDonalds as a manager and not suffer a paycut?

 

[Gator1999]

They didn't flat out lie to anyone.

That's a bunch of crap! They did lie to everyone. As a former XJ'er and a no voter to the last contract, I remember talking to a CVG MEC guy and he plain out told me that at the time that the TA came down, there were people in the MEC and NC that were flat out against accepting it. However, when asked during the road shows, all those guys said that the vote to accept the TA was UNANIMOUS! They've lied to you once, they'll do it again.

Read the TA, make up your own mind, then vote your conscience. Don't let them make it for you.

 

[Dodge]

The vote for the 2004 TA was unamimous because at least 2 voters were told that it would look bad if the LEC's showed up with a TA that wasn't fully accepted by the MEC/LEC. Now that, is a fact, Jack.

This concessionary TA will be presented to the pilots in the same fashion has the last. "You have to vote yes for this." "Live to fight another day." "It puts us in great shape for growth." "You gotta be a Captain before you can expect to make any money." (music to the ears of a FO maxed out on pay)
These were all the things we heard in 2004. The same soundbites and party line statements will be said this time around.

I know that the MEC/NC do a hard job, but don't tell me how to vote on a TA and why I should vote the way you want me to. Let us all read it and decide for ourselves.

 

[Gator1999]

Dodge,
It wasn't unianimous because there were people who opposed the TA but they were also the Wychor sheep that were coaxed into changing their votes and then selling out to the rest of the pilot group by saying that they actually supported the TA, when in fact they didn't. Big fat lie!

And yeah, I think that you're right. I think that these spineless individuals will roll over again...it'll be 2004 all over again.

Like I said before, read the TA and vote your conscience. No one is telling you how to vote, just know the facts...

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

Dodge,
It wasn't unianimous because there were people who opposed the TA but they were also the Wychor sheep that were coaxed into changing their votes and then selling out to the rest of the pilot group by saying that they actually supported the TA, when in fact they didn't. Big fat lie!

And yeah, I think that you're right. I think that these spineless individuals will roll over again...it'll be 2004 all over again.

Like I said before, read the TA and vote your conscience. No one is telling you how to vote, just know the facts...

Gee, I didn't know that it was so black and white! Do you know why they opposed the 04 TA? Was it all the items in it, or just 1 item? For some guys, it's all about what the hourly rate is and that's it, nothing else. Always whining about whose got a better contract than us, not those who have contracts worse than us. I heard 9E is getting block-or-better in their new contract, but it doesn't kick in until DOS +3, when it will probably be the year 2011. XJ had it in their contract in 1993, which would make it 18 years earlier. I would never vote based on my conscious, just the facts work for me. Getting emotional about this stuff messes up your head, and that sometimes keeps you from thinking straight, so your last paragraph is a contradiction in terms.

By the way, we all miss you. You were a lot of fun to fly with.

 

[Gator1999]

Thanks man. I miss all you great guys/gals too and wish you all the best! Good luck!

 

[xjjetdog]

Hey Gator,

Thanks man. I miss all you great guys/gals too and wish you all the best! Good luck!

Quit your Biatchin'