Mesaba Re-Alignment 06-04

[CubanSmoker]

So if you are furloughed right now, I would say 2009 is a likely date you will see your employment again. However, upgrade time will be very short once you get back.

How the hell would any pilot know this? Management doesn't know any of this yet! Is XJ going away? Possibly. Could XJ grow like crazy in 6 months from other scenarios? Possibly. Could we shut it down with a strike? Sure. But none of us are going to know what happens until it happens. We're pilots... We will be the last to know anything and it's always been that way.

YPF, I like some of your ideas & you throw some interesting spins on what is happening, but I've spoken with pilots that actually listen to the crap on this board and use other people's guesses to decide where to go on this rocky road. Throwing out dates they are going to go back to work after they are furloughed is complete BS. Everyone needs to relax a lot, read a (non-aviation) book, get a girlfriend or pay attention to the one you have, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Get the resume ready and re-read Checklist for Success but decide to stay or leave Mesaba when you know where this company is really going. I mean when the announcements not threats are all over and we actually see the changes that are going to occur - good or bad. That won't be for a while .

Furloughed pilots that need to get another airline gig right away or could never afford to stay - by all means do what you have to do and I sincerely say "good luck". But if you are at still on the seniority list, living in domicile with your family and (like me) could replace your income from here with ANY job for half a year, just see what shakes out. No one knows what really is coming for XJ, but is it worth a major relocation or commuting for a lateral career move after putting years in here?

If a lateral move is what you're after and Mesaba joins the ranks of crappy regionals, there are lots of other crappy regionals hiring and they will be for years. So if you delayed your lateral move and lost some seniority at Mesa but knew you made the right/educated decision for you, wouldn't it be worth it? Many of my senior friends are jumping ship to other airlines knowing they have to commute to "avoid pay cuts". They are going to regionals that only pay a few dollars more an hour if at all. But they don't realize that starting at the bottom of another list to make $150 more a month while losing lots of days at home and paying for crashpads could completely ruin their family and/or financial life. A regional job anywhere isn't worth that.

I'm not saying take a pay cut or listen to what our worthless SLT says at all, but we all need to calm down and think before we act. When the smoke and mirrors are gone IF we really go down to 49 Saabs and management really needs us to live below poverty levels to stay in business, then we really shouldn't be in business at all and we owe it to the shareholders to liquidate. It happens in business all the time: the revenue could no longer support the cost of business, the business goes away. But do you really believe we would even be here today if NWA or our our SLT knew we would only be a 49 Saab operator? Nope. We'd be sold, absorbed, or just liquidate. There is no substantial money in having a stand alone airline to drive less than 50 old turboprops.

Flame me if you want, but I think something less than doom and gloom is on the horizon for us. I doubt it'll be anything great, but don't uproot your family and your life before you have to over what you think might or might not happen. We've lost aircraft, flying, and sadly people have been furloughed. But that's happened in the past with every airline. That's just the reality of it. I understand if you need to leave to take care of yourself and your family, by all means do so. But no one has changed our pay rates yet, none of our work rules are gone yet, and nothing would piss off management more then to see their tactics are not working.

Just hang on a while longer if you can, support our union and let them do their job... If I'm wrong, I'll swing your gear and buy you a beer now that you're more senior than me at the next crappy job we get.

Cheers

 

[XJohXJ]

Well put. Cheers!

 

[arthompson]

The CRJ 440s are being being converted to 200LR's at a rate of 3 per week

 

[DoinTime]

Those 15 birds are gone. The leases were rejected, Bombardier is trying to re-lease them via some guarantee program thru the Canadian gov't. Just read someplace that they've been talking to interested parties about those planes and some of the former flyI planes. US carriers have no interest in 50 seaters. I still wouldn't be surprised to see XJT's 69 planes painted in redtails. That would make it easy to reject the leases on another 69 CRJ440's.

Thats crap to think that those 15 CRJs are gone to the leasing company. What leasing company would even take back airplanes that didn't have the branding taken off of them? Not only would a leasing company require this branding to be removed but the Northwest pilot scope clause also requires it to be removed. Even Mesaba removed all Northwest brand indications from the Saabs before they returned them to Pinnacle.

All of those CRJ's are sitting out in the desert with "operated by Pinnacle Airlines" written on the side and a big NW logo stamped on the side and the tail. Those airplanes are coming back to service with NW in one form or another.

 

[xjhawk]

really?

Nope, first they have to make a decision on what airplanes to buy. That was going to be this month, however with the flight attendants it has been pushed back. Next, they have to find the financing and then go through the legal process to get that. That will most likely happen after all of NWA planes lease rates are finalized(sometime in october-november) Then they have to start building them, which will take 2-3 months for the first airplane. Then mesaba has to transfer the senior guys to the new jet and so forth. So if you are furloughed right now, I would say 2009 is a likely date you will see your employment again. However, upgrade time will be very short once you get back. If you are just starting your private flight training right now, by the time your ready to get hired, mesaba will be the fastest upgrade.

From a mangement aspect that long contract duration they are handing you guys will cover a whole generation of pilots through that company, of whom will not be looking to get back what they previously had. So anybody asking why so long, there's your answer.

So you are telling that in NWA 's restructuring plan, they had not figured out what plane and how much they would spend...i totally do not think that a company restructuring plan, approved by the judge, finacers......everyone would approve a section that said.....regional link plan....to be figured out in june of 06........they have a plan, and a plane in their plan, it is plain as that....

 

[IHateMgmt]

I mostly agree with what you said, CubanSmoker. Lateral moves are not worth it at this point. However, if pay cuts are imposed I do think that would be a time to move. That's just my opinion though and a very tough decision to make.

YPF, I don't mind hearing your predictions and opinions. The problem I have with you is how you say them. When you speculate, you talk like you have seen the future. I do not believe you know the future with 100% certainty and thus everything you say is purely a guess, correct? Like I said, it's not what you say but how you say it. Tone it down a notch or two and I think you'll find you'll make more friends.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

No, I haven't seen into the future, however what I do know is that you guys think there is a plan and there isn't. The company doesn't think in terms of long term planning. If they did they wouldn't be in this position right now. I'm sure NWA management has some ideas, however, it was more like a statement like this, "We need this amount of savings, come back when you got it and then we'll figure things out."

Maybe NWA has a secret stash of jets and all you guys will be back to work within a few months. But, I think you'll find reality is much closer to what I post. I think it would be irresponsible to post favorable statements that are untrue. Right now we are in the dark days of aviation and there is nothing good to report. It would appear to me that NWA has done and gone with the carrot approach in favor of the, "do this or you're Fuc|<ed", approach.

If there is anything positive I can say, is that we are going to a global economy. Everybody's salary worldwide is either going up, or going down to meet in the middle. The airline industry seems to always be hit first. That's why we are suffering the most. I think that if the airlines can form global conglomerates, I think you find in about ten years we will be where it's at.

 

[kmox29]

I think that if the airlines can form global conglomerates, I think you find in about ten years we will be where it's at.

Just think...10 more years and everything might be ok. I hope upper management can weather the storm as well.

 

[xjhawk]

well ypf, i think you have some insight, but not the inside info a lot think you have, and the way you tell your ideas makes some think you do....well, i am not giving up my seniority on a bunch of rumors and guesses. I would rather stick it out, take a break from flying if i have to, maybe even go fly for some other company....but the commute would suck very much.....as much for my dog as much as my girlfriend.....sort of a joke i guess

Any ideas people?

 

[W&BWiz]

Well I for one am relieved to finally see something happen, even if I did get "awarded" the furlough. I am going to collect some unemployment, and take my "travel benefits" to Europe. If after that XJ mgmt still has their head up their a$$, I am going back to school.

 

[gnx99]

Heads up; there's a revised Realignment Award. The Avro classes are pushed back 2 MONTHS and the CRJ class is pushed back 2.5 MONTHS. There are a few other changes to the pilot list.

Maybe they realized how much work they have ahead of them?

 

[gnx99]

Well I for one am relieved to finally see something happen, even if I did get "awarded" the furlough. I am going to collect some unemployment, and take my "travel benefits" to Europe. If after that XJ mgmt still has their head up their a$$, I am going back to school.

I'm on the list too, and I was thinking the same thing. But, I was researching going to London, and it would be approximately $255, to non-rev!!

$54 (w/tax) for the yearly privilage to non-rev.
$67 to get to LGW, and
$132.41 to get home!

 

[TurboAWD]

Well I for one am relieved to finally see something happen, even if I did get "awarded" the furlough. I am going to collect some unemployment, and take my "travel benefits" to Europe. If after that XJ mgmt still has their head up their a$$, I am going back to school.

Hey, W+B, when you get to Europe, perhaps you can find a nice (non-pilot, right?) man with some old school money, and just forget about the whole working thing.

On the other hand, you might look good in a KLM stew outfit.imp:


Turbo

And good luck to the XJ pilots- great group

 

[bri5150]

I wonder is all of those guys (or gals) that are crossed off of the revised realigment have already quit.

 

[Abbey]

Here is the way I see it Right or wrong, its done now.

I left when the BK was announced. I waited for almost 6 years before I had enough seniority to upgrade to a Saab while all of my former students were applying to Fed Ex and SWA. I wasn't a captain for more than 9 months when the BK hit and Mesaba put their annual furlough/downgrade plan into affect. I was one of those that kept "hanging around" just to see if we get some more growth so I could be a captain. I lost a ton of seniority at my current place of empoyment by doing just that.

My personal belief is that all regionals are equally crappy. Mesaba is no different. If one can find a better paying job outside the regionals, I say take it. The top 250 at XJ aren't leaving until the doors close for good so you might as well be at a place where captain, or reasonable fo pay, is an actual possibility.

 

[W&BWiz]

Hey, W+B, when you get to Europe, perhaps you can find a nice (non-pilot, right?) man with some old school money, and just forget about the whole working thing.

On the other hand, you might look good in a KLM stew outfit.imp:


Turbo

Dang, thats a good idea, why didn't I think of that? :blush:

 

[gnx99]

I wonder is all of those guys (or gals) that are crossed off of the revised realigment have already quit.

I was wondering about that. How much leeway does planning give to people who screwed up their preference bid, and later complained about it?

 

[W&BWiz]

I'm on the list too, and I was thinking the same thing. But, I was researching going to London, and it would be approximately $255, to non-rev!!

$54 (w/tax) for the yearly privilage to non-rev.
$67 to get to LGW, and
$132.41 to get home!

I just checked on how much it would cost to go as a regular paying traveler and it was $2000. I know $250 sounds like a lot, but when are you going to get the chance to collect unemployment, and use your non-rev privilidges. Because lets face it, if you can get vacation from your airline job your always going to be worrying about it getting canceled, and your never going to get a month or so.

 

[gnx99]

I just checked on how much it would cost to go as a regular paying traveler and it was $2000. I know $250 sounds like a lot, but when are you going to get the chance to collect unemployment, and use your non-rev privilidges. Because lets face it, if you can get vacation from your airline job your always going to be worrying about it getting canceled, and your never going to get a month or so.

Yeah, relatively it's not bad. I was just thinking of how great it would be to use the jumpseat privileges to get there

 

[arthompson]

Its funny you guys are talking about London, I'm headed there next month. gnx99 thanks for the figures for the trip, I was wondering what it was going to cost me. Was that in C or Y class?

W&BWiz if you're the kind that would look good in the KLM FA uniform you'd be welcome to go to London with me