Mesaba & Pinnacle Screwed Again

[Monster Buck]

sf3boy,

I wouldn't doubt what they are being told in class. But company Kool-aid goes a very very long way with a new hire. I was only looking at what they are doing , not what they are saying. Also, look at the reverse, TA for mainline fresh on the paper and they tell our new hires we are getting new planes?? Not that they wouldn't, but I believe that would be riskier for them. Hope for the best.

 

[dondk]

.02 for whatever it is worth...


In July I sat in on a N/H presentation.. The union was telling these dudes 5+ years to upgrade...

In September during upgrade.. the class next door had a "street captain" (in a N/H class) and he is currently doing OE right now.

I agree something is up, especially if XJ has increased class sizes.. Over at the other 'link.. The school house is still full with 50 new FO's/month for the remainder of the year. As for Captain's.. who knows.. the last vacancy alluded that it may be over for CA upgrades for the year. As for growth, we may be coming to an end and we are still 20 planes from the end of the order.

Personally, I hope XJ gets the RJ's.. it will give us 9E guys an argument for our negotiations. As for another entity into our the airlink's. I hope not, because we all know we will get screwed and badly at that.

Save those J/S forms for the "new" airlink.. remember those dudes will have to get to work one way or the other and unless the new TA really opens up the scope, those 50 seaters (new airlink) must be flown out of the hubs...

 

[Mel Sharples]

I agree that something may very well be up, and I also wouldn't be shocked if we saw a 3rd Airlink pop up.

My big beef is with ALPA both at XJ and NWA. I don't know what the 9E ALPA guys are saying (probably more worried about the contract which is understandable) but the XJ MEC is not exactly shouting down a 3rd Airlink or jets-for-jobs.

I have heard some of our ALPA guys say, "It's up to Northwest. We just have to wait and see." While that may be true, how about a statement of, "We hope the NWA MEC remembers that we are one, big (disfunctional) family and we are united strongly against new CRJ's going anywhere except Pinnacle or Mesaba. We also would like to help our furloughed brothers at NWA, but we will not sacrafice the seniority of even one of our pilots to give one of theirs super-seniority."

All we get from ALPA lately is rhetoric. I think most of the pilots are starting to see why you can't have one person play two hands of poker at the same time and expect everything to work out okay.

ALPA has done some good things for XJ but right now they are allowing us to be bullied without taking a stand. We better all hope that this doesn't go the way it is looking or soon will have new hire fo's reading checklists to furloughed NWA guys with super-seniority in a shiny new 70-seater.

My question for ALPA: If Mesaba and/or Pinnacle gets new jets but they are flown by NWA pilots, who REALLY benefits?

I have yet to hear a good answer to that.



.

 

[dondk]

Our MEC has not said anything (yet). We have enough issue's with the accident, re-election/elections, and the contract. The 70 seater's coming to 9E is just a dream, we all know it and our MEC has basically stated not to even consider it. The best offer was the flow through and I doubt our MEC will sign on for it.

I have heard there is a genuine concern as the higher up's at 9E's managment have something brewing and it is significant. I have heard shake up's (or downs), and most of us know our mgmt has shopped around for financing for thier own fleet of CRJ's.

 

[The5th]

Did ya'll forget Big Sky Airlines? That's my bet on who's to be the third airlink, if any.

 

[flap operator]

BigSky? A new airlink? Only if they're flying 19 seaters for NWA. THat's that rock solid scope we had to have so much... and up to now hasn't meant anything.



FO

 

[Ace McCoy]

One breath of hope (maybe not much) after the TA went out, Mesaba doubled its next class size and has three times the class size we were supposed to have in a month for December.

Wow a class of 6 saab fo's and 8 Avro fo's with no captain slots? That sounds like a sweet vacancy. I wonder what the class would be like if it wasn't doubled. I love our growth contract.

P.S. the NWA TA says the 40 extra crjs have to be not flown or paid for by NWA or an affiliate so that pretty much exludes Big sky since Mesaba owns them and we are an affiliate of NWA.

 

[philo beddoe]

What if Big Sky gets sold to another corp?

 

[Mel Sharples]

What if Big Sky gets sold to another corp?

If they are sold from MAIR Holdings, then they are like any other company out there not associated with NWA and could fly whatever they want. But once they are out of the Holdings umbrella they aren't near the threat.

Big Sky is a threat because of Holdings alone. Without that, they are just a tiny Metro operator in Montana. (Note: No offense intended to Big Sky pilots... I meant the "tiny" comment only in reference to growth, not to your jobs or abilities ) Of course they could get CRJ's, but so could Mesa or anyone else at that point.

 

[flap operator]

Ace - so now these 40 extra jets could be had only if NWA didn't finance them. Now I read only if NWA or an affiliate doesn't finance them. Does anyone know the exact language? Who the heck would finance them if NWA or an affiliate doesn't?

So let's say the whole affiliate thing isn't in the picutre. What if MAIR financed these jets? Remember Foley turned down a deal with UAL because UAL wantd them to assume the leases for the jets for a long term contract. Foley thought that was too risky... but would he view financing planes for NWA a risky venture? If I had to guess... probably not. Especially if he has to justify is new 4 year deal which is quite excessive for not doing a single thing to grow MAIR positively. See the details of his sweet deal here:

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/041022/mair8-k.html


Livin' the dream,

FO4ever

 

[DetoXJ]

Big Sky airlines isn't limited to 19 seat turboprops. Only the Big Sky pilots are limited. Big Sky Airlines can operate RJ's AS LONG as they are flown by pilots on the Mesaba Airlines seniority list.

 

[flap operator]

Detox - right... when I meant Big Sky I meant it in a collective sense.. Big Sky pilots at Big Sky canot fly as a 3rd Airlink.



FO4ever

 

[avrodriverj85]

Guys, you're missing the point here. NWA is no longer looking at growing the two exisiting airlinks. That's just ALPA rhetoric and company propoganda to keep us down and from preventing mass exodus from leaving.

ALPA will keep us chasing our tail in all this brand scope propoganda, when its only real intent is too secure as much job security for mainline pilots. NWA is interested in financial survival, as it should be. ALPA is in the same mode.

There aren't ANY jets coming to Mesaba and there will be no growth in the future. If you don't believe it, call your union rep or write to the MEC chair at [email protected] Oh yeah, and your health insurance premiums are going up next year, the union knows, but isnt going to tell you.

 

[Simon Says]

Once again the word on the playground is true, but not all the information is posted correctly.

NWA can only aquire a third arilink if another airline goes bankrupt. And the third airline that gets aquired would be one of the feeders for the bankrupt airline.

 

[Lear70]

Once again the word on the playground is true, but not all the information is posted correctly.

NWA can only aquire a third arilink if another airline goes bankrupt. And the third airline that gets aquired would be one of the feeders for the bankrupt airline.

If that's true, we're just as equally screwed as if they went out and started flying with Mesa. Who are the big two in fear of liquidation? US and UAL. Who are their RJ Partners? Are their costs lower than XJ or PCL? Who do you think will get the new jets (think lowest cost operator)?

Any questions?