Mesaba & Pinnacle Screwed Again

[flap operator]

BigSky? A new airlink? Only if they're flying 19 seaters for NWA. THat's that rock solid scope we had to have so much... and up to now hasn't meant anything.



FO

 

[Ace McCoy]

One breath of hope (maybe not much) after the TA went out, Mesaba doubled its next class size and has three times the class size we were supposed to have in a month for December.

Wow a class of 6 saab fo's and 8 Avro fo's with no captain slots? That sounds like a sweet vacancy. I wonder what the class would be like if it wasn't doubled. I love our growth contract.

P.S. the NWA TA says the 40 extra crjs have to be not flown or paid for by NWA or an affiliate so that pretty much exludes Big sky since Mesaba owns them and we are an affiliate of NWA.

 

[philo beddoe]

What if Big Sky gets sold to another corp?

 

[Mel Sharples]

What if Big Sky gets sold to another corp?

If they are sold from MAIR Holdings, then they are like any other company out there not associated with NWA and could fly whatever they want. But once they are out of the Holdings umbrella they aren't near the threat.

Big Sky is a threat because of Holdings alone. Without that, they are just a tiny Metro operator in Montana. (Note: No offense intended to Big Sky pilots... I meant the "tiny" comment only in reference to growth, not to your jobs or abilities ) Of course they could get CRJ's, but so could Mesa or anyone else at that point.

 

[flap operator]

Ace - so now these 40 extra jets could be had only if NWA didn't finance them. Now I read only if NWA or an affiliate doesn't finance them. Does anyone know the exact language? Who the heck would finance them if NWA or an affiliate doesn't?

So let's say the whole affiliate thing isn't in the picutre. What if MAIR financed these jets? Remember Foley turned down a deal with UAL because UAL wantd them to assume the leases for the jets for a long term contract. Foley thought that was too risky... but would he view financing planes for NWA a risky venture? If I had to guess... probably not. Especially if he has to justify is new 4 year deal which is quite excessive for not doing a single thing to grow MAIR positively. See the details of his sweet deal here:

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/041022/mair8-k.html


Livin' the dream,

FO4ever

 

[DetoXJ]

Big Sky airlines isn't limited to 19 seat turboprops. Only the Big Sky pilots are limited. Big Sky Airlines can operate RJ's AS LONG as they are flown by pilots on the Mesaba Airlines seniority list.

 

[flap operator]

Detox - right... when I meant Big Sky I meant it in a collective sense.. Big Sky pilots at Big Sky canot fly as a 3rd Airlink.



FO4ever

 

[avrodriverj85]

Guys, you're missing the point here. NWA is no longer looking at growing the two exisiting airlinks. That's just ALPA rhetoric and company propoganda to keep us down and from preventing mass exodus from leaving.

ALPA will keep us chasing our tail in all this brand scope propoganda, when its only real intent is too secure as much job security for mainline pilots. NWA is interested in financial survival, as it should be. ALPA is in the same mode.

There aren't ANY jets coming to Mesaba and there will be no growth in the future. If you don't believe it, call your union rep or write to the MEC chair at [email protected] Oh yeah, and your health insurance premiums are going up next year, the union knows, but isnt going to tell you.

 

[Simon Says]

Once again the word on the playground is true, but not all the information is posted correctly.

NWA can only aquire a third arilink if another airline goes bankrupt. And the third airline that gets aquired would be one of the feeders for the bankrupt airline.

 

[Lear70]

Once again the word on the playground is true, but not all the information is posted correctly.

NWA can only aquire a third arilink if another airline goes bankrupt. And the third airline that gets aquired would be one of the feeders for the bankrupt airline.

If that's true, we're just as equally screwed as if they went out and started flying with Mesa. Who are the big two in fear of liquidation? US and UAL. Who are their RJ Partners? Are their costs lower than XJ or PCL? Who do you think will get the new jets (think lowest cost operator)?

Any questions?

 

[sf3boy]

Sounds like it will be mesa. I believe that US and UA both went belly up. And Mesa flies for both. We'll see guys. Remember all the suits at NWA make a ton of cash of us at 9E and XJ. I can't hardly believe that they are willing to give their sacks of money to J.O.

It is too bad that we have to be tied to NWA and not left to fend for ourselves a little. I guess that is what we get for being a temp employement agency from the CEO to the guy that mops the floors, as both XJ and 9E own nothing at all, except some beat up GPU's and other various ground equipment.

 

[avrodriverj85]

SF3boy,

It's one thing to get beaten down by NWA and another to be kicked around by the NWA MEC and it's pilot group; just last year they professed we were ALL brothers when it came to flying within the red tail family, now it seems they've forgotten that proclamation. But what really gets me is when my own MEC/LEC reps try to make me feel that it's somehow my fault that things are the way they are. Just this week one of our MSP LEC reps, Kris Pierson bashed XJ pilots on our message boards for questioning the loyalty of the NWA MEC. Little word about the NWA TA from our 'spineless leader'- Tom Wychor, but we don't expect much from him anyway. He's the same guy who told pilots last year during negotiations that "we weren't REAL airline pilots and our REAL job was to protect mainline and its pilots security".

 

[dondk]

I can't hardly believe that they are willing to give their sacks of money to J.O.

Sadly.. they will NOT be giving sacks of money to Mesa.. Mesa will operate on fee per departure. That just happens to be less than ours, so NWA will be getting MORE sacks of money.

The only thing MESA has going for them is the fact they own jet's and they will have enough to go around when USAir or United folds. They could step in and pick up the flying in nothing flat, they already go into most cities we do. The bad part would be for our stations, Mesa employee's make less (hard to believe) then our stations employee's. How many stations will we lose to the lowest cost operator.

The only thing we have going for us.. they have a lousy completion factor. I don't know how long NWA would put up with that.

 

[DetoXJ]

I don't know the exact fees we charge "Per Departure" but fot the sake of this discussion lets say Mesaba's CRJ fee per departure was $2000 per block hour and Mesa's was $1600. $400 per hour difference is huge considering the hundreds of thousands of hours we fly per year. However, If NWA were to pay Mesa $1600 per hours NWA doesn't see any of that money where if NWA were to pay Mesaba $2000 per hour they would see about 1/3 back since they own about 1/3 of all Mesaba stock. Taking into account that, wouldn't NWA be better off paying Mesaba $2000 as opposed to paying Mesa or CHQ ect. ect $1600?

 

[dondk]

good point.. but.. the argument FOR MESA (I can't beleive I am even saying that) is the overhead to NWA is nearly ZERO...

XJ or 9E use NWA to finance our equipment, so our individual management peep's are making it hand over fist.

MESA would bear the cost of thier own equipment and would collect a fee to operate it.

NWA bears the cost of the equipment but has us (lower cost than mainline) operate it. They still make money, but with CHQ or Mesa they make more money.

You could see how it "may" be attractive to NWA. I am surprised though that NWAMEC would be interested. The "third" airlink could deterioate mainline flying even more since NWA has no real vested interest in the third airlink other than to make money. At least with XJ and 9E, they have the stock of our companies, our aircraft and they really do pull all the strings when it comes to how we operate.

 

[100LL... Again!]

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