Mesaba OPS quote from RST debacle

Uncle Bunkle

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"She (XJT CA) has to go. I can't do anything for her. I can't have them (pax) in our closed airport."

Wow...just listened to the calls between XJT dispatch and Mesaba OPS in RST. That bitch in Mesaba OPS flat out told XJT that she would not allow pax off the plane into their terminal. ********************in liars, they told the reporters all week that they offered terminal access to the pax....now the truth comes out...sorry to the XJT flight crew who got reamed up the ass for no reason.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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I'm a bit shocked, I didn't know XJ ops personnel we were equipped to say anything more than "copy that" over the radio. ;)

All in all, not surprised one bit.
 

Mel Sharples

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now the truth comes out...sorry to the XJT flight crew who got reamed up the ass for no reason.
So let me get this straight...

XJT uses RST as an alternate even though they know they have no facilities or people there. They allow the flight to get all the way up to MSP with no station of their own to divert to and they end up dumping into RST. The crew then allows the people to be on board all night without declaring an emergency, calling the local cops for help, attempting to go to the FBO, or deplaning the people on to the ramp. XJT dispatch doesn't call the local authorities either, or call the airport manager, or anyone else with real authority to help. They give the excuse that "no busses were available."

So the crew, and more importantly THE PIC, is blameless, yet some $8 an hour ramp worker from another carrier is the only one at fault?

OK. :rolleyes:

I think there is more than enough blame to go around and I hate to tell you that the crew isn't exactly squeaky clean here no matter what Ray LaHood says.
 

Mel Sharples

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I'm a bit shocked, I didn't know XJ ops personnel we were equipped to say anything more than "copy that" over the radio. ;)

All in all, not surprised one bit.
I think all regional carrier stations suck. I haven't ever seen a Pinnacle station that would get high marks, either.
 

belliott

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I think all regional carrier stations suck. I haven't ever seen a Pinnacle station that would get high marks, either.
Apparently you haven't been to GFK then... in the year I was a rampie there we had only one flight not go out on time or early with the station being at fault... heck the overnight crew would call pax in the early hours of the morning to rebook pax on flights out of FAR if there was a mx or wx problem. When I was there we actually cared about the job.... I still think that holds true for the most part even today.
 

CptMurf

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So the crew, and more importantly THE PIC, is blameless, yet some $8 an hour ramp worker from another carrier is the only one at fault?

OK. :rolleyes:

I think there is more than enough blame to go around and I hate to tell you that the crew isn't exactly squeaky clean here no matter what Ray LaHood says.
I agree with you Mel. There is definately more to the story than Ray LaHood took into account or the media is spinning.

But I guess if SWA dropped into an ASA station, they would be equipped to manage, service and reload their passengers by other peoples posts here.

CA dropped the ball over and over, but XJ will suck up the blame.
 

CptMurf

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I think all regional carrier stations suck. I haven't ever seen a Pinnacle station that would get high marks, either.
All mainline stations suck too. Since the merger, I have yet to see at Delta station (any of them) that can work the computer, service the aircraft, provide even marginal customer service, or care about an ontime departure.
 

profit

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No doubt. If you allow yourself to rely on idiot station personnel, you're pretty much f$&%^d.
 

pilot772

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I agree with you Mel. There is definately more to the story than Ray LaHood took into account or the media is spinning.

But I guess if SWA dropped into an ASA station, they would be equipped to manage, service and reload their passengers by other peoples posts here.

CA dropped the ball over and over, but XJ will suck up the blame.

Absolutely that would happen. My Dad was a station manager for ozark and TWA for years. He has always told me that there is an unwritten rule among airlines that when a carrier lands at an airport that they don't normally serve than another carrier will service the airplane. (and charge the diversion aircraft for the ground handling of course.) I worked as gate agent/ ramper for Chautauqua for a while and we took an ATA 757 divert. Only serving ERJ's we weren't exactly equipped but you make due with what you got. The folks got off and went into the sterile area without TSA present. In my opinion there was a breakdown by the Mesaba agent and the airport authority. At a minimum she should have contacted the station manager or airport ops. They could have done something to accommodate the passengers.
 

NJAPLT

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There needs to be a minimum level of passenger rights that any airline flying stopping in the U.S. should follow. These should be either Federal Law, or Federal Air Regulations, to ensure compliance.

This would help both airlines and flight crews know what the minimum level of service & safety the airlines must provide at all times.

A passenger bill of rights would also provide cover for the airline pilots who work for "less than stellar" carriers (as I have in the past), as a pilot cannot violate regulations or federal law no matter what airline management wants them to do.

This is a systemic problem across all the airlines in my view, every one (regionals and majors) has had incidents of overflowing lavs, long delays, and passengers who have been refused the basic right to depart an airplane that is still on the ground after hours of delay.

This should be a good thing for all of us, as pilots are some of the most "frequent flyers" while deadheading to, from or during work.

Lets hope this incident finally forces congress & the FAA to act.
 

WalterSobchak

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He has always told me that there is an unwritten rule among airlines that when a carrier lands at an airport that they don't normally serve than another carrier will service the airplane. (and charge the diversion aircraft for the ground handling of course.)
Bingo...

You make due with what you have and do the right thing.

It's almost a matter of, without a better term to use, honor. There's not much of that left in this industry, but all of us non-management types have a sort of unwritten obligation to uphold that as much as we can. For the rank-and-file airline employees, from the pilot down to the ramper and everyone in between, this business runs on karma for all of us. We all chose to do this for a living and, regardless of who's paint is on the metal, we have a responsibility to take care of each other and let management hammer out who is going to pay for it. It sounds really hokey, but it's true.

Now, let's all join hands and sing "Kumbaya". :)
 
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CptMurf

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In my opinion there was a breakdown by the Mesaba agent and the airport authority. At a minimum she should have contacted the station manager or airport ops. They could have done something to accommodate the passengers.
Their dispatch or manager of SOC could have just as easily called the station manager or airport ops., but they chose not to.

While I agree that the station didn't do everything in its power...
First off, I would be hard pressed to divert to an airport that is not served by my own brand of flying. But, if I had, I would have never given up on this. I would have called everyone I know Dispatch, SOC, Flight Ops Manager, CEO, Airport Manager, Police, etc. until I got my pax off that aircraft. Not just listened to a rampie. If we can't get off, fill us up, were leaving.

Your blaming a rampie of another airline for not going above and beyond, yet place no blame on the ones charged with the safety and security of their own passingers or crew?!?

Being a longtime XJ pilot, I am upset that our station did not help out more, but there is more to the story than what the press has devulged (I know for a fact). And to place sole blame on the station, well, that's just bad karma itself.
 

Mesabi Miner

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It was a pure lack of common sense, and an overabundance of fear and red tape. Clearly XJ ops dropped the ball. And that is a shame. However, as PIC, you have to be able to think outside the box. Obviously, nobody wanted to get fired for making a bad decision in this bad situation, but let's use our brains here people. I pray that I'll never be in this situation, but I'll definitely use this as a learning experience for when times don't quite go as planned.

MM
 

COOPERVANE

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To me this is exactly like a typical crash. There is no single failure but a chain of failures that several people could have broken. No ONE person is at fault. This scenario has happened many times in this industry and most of the time it is handled properly.

This time it was not.
 

xjcaptain

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Apparently you haven't been to GFK then... in the year I was a rampie there we had only one flight not go out on time or early with the station being at fault... heck the overnight crew would call pax in the early hours of the morning to rebook pax on flights out of FAR if there was a mx or wx problem. When I was there we actually cared about the job.... I still think that holds true for the most part even today.
All I can say is that after NWA quit handling GFK, the service went dramatically down-hill. Having flown there countless times, we always have the same issues. Rampers walking towards spinning props well within the prohibited area, incomplete paperwork, unable to print final weather, planeside checked bags without tags forcing pax to go to baggage claim once we get to MSP etc.

As far as rebooking passengers, I hope not to burst your bubble, but thats what most stations do....Nothing out of the ordinary.


Not to rag on you, but the perspective isn't the same from the cockpit.
 

Jamis81

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beyond the rampies making the wrong call on the regs.. beyond XJT crew and dispatch not calling the right people.. the XJ rampies aren't even trained on the ground handling of a ERJ 145.. why did XJT dispatch not call American Eagle in RST for help instead of just expecting the help of people not trained to work on this particular aircraft? I think that is a good question that should be answered as well..
 

rene

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I am really confused by this. An Express Jet diverts to Rochester, MN at 10:00 PM, 2.5 hours after leaving Houston. They have absolutely no contractual relationship with Mesaba and have made no prior arrangements for any service.

Because of the weather situation the limited staff thay do have are consumed handling NWA, Pinnacle, and Mesaba diversions.

Expresss Jet shows and they ask for service. Mesaba responds with a "sorry we are busy and cannot help you".

Why couldn't Express Jet diverted to about 40 of the other on line cities they passed along the way.

What legal or moral obligation did Mesaba have regarding TSA laws, regarding Airport rules, regarding Continental's passengers?

Where was the airport management? Where was Express Jet SOC? Where were other options, such as FBO's?

Where was the Captain?

This story isn't over?
 
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