Mesaba losing the Avros (?)

[Mesabi Miner]

Monster, you don't say much young man but when you do you're to the point and I solute you for it! (Name the movie!)

Actually, I hope you're right. Still looking for my piss on NWA sticker though.

MM

 

[Whyzitsokold]

If we get furloughed from XJ, Does this void our training contract? What if we get called back, does our contract continue? Do we still have to pay for our uniforms if we get the boot?

One more note, I would like to get one of those Calvin pissin on a NW sticker! Ha!

 

[RampTower]

Spanjers' so called "surprise" is not a surprise. The NWA, XJ and Pinnacle BODs(a.k.a. Red Tail good ol' boys club) knows exactly what is going on. Dont' let all this smoke and mirrors, magic, illusion, union busting get to you. The Avros or some new "70ish" seater will be flying.

 

[U of I Tweak]

Easy there

I assure you if someone's lights are about to go out, there yours.

I was simply quoting the line out of Backdraft....I was in no way trying to make a snide remark about Mesaba and the possible loss of Avros. I am an XJ employee and don't want to see anyone get screwed.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

judging from the "note" from management up on the wall from mesaba management in ops today... we were betting on how long it takes for one of those to appear in our operations department. definitely disconcerting what's going on.

 

[dbrownie]

Spanjers' so called "surprise" is not a surprise. The NWA, XJ and Pinnacle BODs(a.k.a. Red Tail good ol' boys club) knows exactly what is going on. Dont' let all this smoke and mirrors, magic, illusion, union busting get to you. The Avros or some new "70ish" seater will be flying.

Ramp Tower;

After rethinking my original guess, I agree with your position.

I think the Avros will stay at Mesaba and it will have 85 seats.

Think about it would NWA spend this time and money to "grind down" your employees and the leasing co's?

YOU BET!!

Just watch the next line "We might be able to keep them if only the pilots or the judge will let us have 85 seats and only at the original pay rates".

These guys are getting more and more predictable. Divide and concour. It is their only playbook.

I am just a line guy with no inside gouge other than 9 years of watching them beat up their employees.

NWA needs Mesaba intact. I hope I am right. I do not want to see any more greed induced suffering.

Dave B

 

[Mysteryofflight]

ok ok I have the final numbers here. NWA is looking to outsource it's pilots and dispatch to India however, Avro means fatted calf in their language so instead they will operate the CRJ700 for 5.75/hr.

"Floyd is it? Yes I am calling to drop a trip"

 

[CubanSmoker]

"Floyd is it? Yes I am calling to drop a trip"

Did you know Mesaba Airlines is a great place to work? Bid a month of reserve and see for yourself.....

Terminate all leases by Dec 20th? 5 days before Christmas? Yeah, that's a good time to stop flying them. Not much air travel that time of the year and the ski season is really slow in Aspen.

Imagine the CVG boys and girls that just did a collective "Oh $hit" Friday night. I sure hope the leases get renewed - I don't want to re-learn how to set my own thrust and land an airplane again.

This will be an interesting 3 months.

 

[Chris9702l]

Management playbook

This ploy comes right out of NW managements playbook. They pulled this crap right before our final contract negotiations. I'm wondering if they renegotiated the leases back then too? Anyone remember?

I agree with DBrownie. If you have been here long enough you know it's just another management ploy. After we have signed our contract I thought our days as wipping boy would be over for a couple of years. Guess I was wrong.

 

[RampTower]

I would like to add... when NWA "missed" it's 19 mill payment to Mesaba and our CEO comes out acting all surprised and defensive like "We're gonna go knock on their doors and ask for our money!"... just an act. You don't just miss a payment like that, but Mesaba knew about it well in advance. When NWA makes this "surprise" announcement that they want to pull the plug on the Avros, same deal.

Just because Mesaba is not a wholly owned subsidiary of NWA, we basically are owned by them. MAIR BODs and insiders are nearly all NWA execs. The Pohlad family has a huge stake in us, and that family basically owns Minnesota. Don't think for one second that we are a separate company. On paper we are, but look at our ASA. Look at our operating history, completely dependent on NWA. What percentage of shares does NWA hold? 30-35% Why haven't/can't we go find other flying elsewhere?

This Avro ploy is just like late 2003 when they threatened to dump em when the XJ pilots were in negotiations. Now they most likely want some pay cut or freeze for an 85 seat Avro or the CRJ700 or -900. I would guess that NWA management will politely propose to the NWA pilot group, first, on 70+ seat flying (after the NY judge relaxes the scope). And not to anyone's surprise, they will turn down the substandard payrates. Then they'll come to Mesaba pilots and our new VP Ed Davidson will sugarcoat the whole thing in ground school classes and give you his "P3" speech and blah blah blah. Some people will buy it, most won't. Interesting times.

 

[nwaredtail]

I would also say this is a management ploy. They were taken out of the NWA reservations system but now are back. I would say that the only thing that will become of this is less money for Mesaba to fly them, which will eventually lead to lower wages for the crews.....

 

[Butters]

I would also say this is a management ploy. They were taken out of the NWA reservations system but now are back. I would say that the only thing that will become of this is less money for Mesaba to fly them, which will eventually lead to lower wages for the crews.....

Agree 100%. Classic case of "divide and conquer."

Good luck, Northwest pilots. You don't deserve this.

 

[nwaredtail]

Ramptower, I would say the 1000 or so furloughed NWA pilots will accept the industry rates on the 70 seaters, if they buy them. Remember, the dc-9 looks a whole lot better when the crew costs come down. I would thinka furlough guy would be willing to fly a new E-170 for 80-90 bucks an hour vs. unemployment.

 

[Butters]

Ramptower, I would say the 1000 or so furloughed NWA pilots will accept the industry rates on the 70 seaters, if they buy them. Remember, the dc-9 looks a whole lot better when the crew costs come down. I would thinka furlough guy would be willing to fly a new E-170 for 80-90 bucks an hour vs. unemployment.

Once again, I agree with you.

The only problem from the Northwest side is will the FA's, mechanics, gate agents, rampies, etc. work for the same reduced wages? That is the battle you face. If the answer is yes, you will get the planes as you should.

I just don't think the rest of the clan at Northwest is as smart as the pilots. You guys were the ones who were proactive on this from the start. Too bad they weren't forward thinking too.

 

[filejw]

Ramp Tower,
NWA owns 27 % of Mesaba.The exclusive contracts goes back to the late eighties when the air link flying was done by Simmons.AMR bought Simmons and NWA used them for 1 or 2 yrs and didn't like the set up.So they put out contracts for the flying and told all bidders you can serve us only or don't bid.

 

[DoinTime]

I would also say this is a management ploy. They were taken out of the NWA reservations system but now are back. I would say that the only thing that will become of this is less money for Mesaba to fly them, which will eventually lead to lower wages for the crews.....

Anyone who thinks NW is not serious about fleet reductions this time around must have their head up their a$$. PCL just annouced today they are parking 15 CRJs.

 

[Monster Buck]

DoinTime you and I have disagreed in the past but I KNOW YOU SEE THROUGH THIS BS. Many people from your airline have said that you run the CRJ cheaper than anyone. Why take away the cheapest run 50 seat rj in their fleet? Especially when they are still leasing more?

 

[RampTower]

Ramptower, I would say the 1000 or so furloughed NWA pilots will accept the industry rates on the 70 seaters, if they buy them. Remember, the dc-9 looks a whole lot better when the crew costs come down. I would thinka furlough guy would be willing to fly a new E-170 for 80-90 bucks an hour vs. unemployment.

Sorry if I came across like the furloughed pilots would not fly a 70+ seat aircraft, even at "industry average" wages. (btw what is industry average when you consider both ends of the spectrum like Comair to Mesa or CHQ?) I don't speak for those pilots but it was just in my opinion I see you/them turning down 70+ seat "small jet" flying for whatever payrates. I know a year or two ago your pilot group was in discussion with management about 70 seaters and the payrates you wanted vs. what mgt. had in mind were completely different. Throw in slashed work rules, a recycled pension... But then again, like you said, 80-90 bucks/hour is better than no paycheck. I honestly hope if your group flies the 70-90 seaters that whatever payrates you get help control costs and turn around NWA.

 

[dondk]

9E plays thier hand

Item 8.01 Other Events
Pinnacle Airlines Corp. ("Pinnacle") has received a request from its airline partner, Northwest Airlines, Inc. ("Northwest"), to remove 15 CRJ aircraft from service, effective October 31, 2005. Pinnacle expects its block hours and cycles in the fourth quarter of 2005 to be reduced by approximately 11% and 10%, respectively, compared to its original expected schedule operating a full complement of 139 CRJ aircraft. Pinnacle is making arrangements to place these aircraft in long-term storage.
Under the Airline Services Agreement between Pinnacle and Northwest (the "ASA"), Pinnacle receives variable revenue based on the number of block hours and cycles it produces, fixed revenue based on the number of aircraft in its fleet, and revenue to reimburse Pinnacle for certain expenses arranged by Northwest, such as aircraft rent and fuel. Under the ASA, Pinnacle expects the schedule reduction to impact only the variable components of its revenue; accordingly, Pinnacle expects fourth quarter 2005 revenue to be reduced by approximately 7% from the Company's previous expectations. Pinnacle has informed Northwest that it expects to continue receiving fixed based components of its revenue calculated on the basis of its full 139 aircraft fleet, in accordance with the terms of the ASA. However, should Northwest try to dispute the terms of the ASA and claim that it owes an even lower amount of revenue from the schedule reduction, the impact to Pinnacle's fourth quarter revenue could be substantially greater.
Management has already begun steps to reduce Pinnacle's costs to compensate for the 15 aircraft schedule reduction. Pinnacle will have excess staffing levels in all areas of its operations after the 15 aircraft are removed from service. Management expects to reduce staffing levels through a combination of regular attrition and voluntary employee leaves. It is possible that the Company will be forced to resort to involuntary furloughs, should the number of employees electing voluntary leaves be insufficient. Pinnacle is also reviewing other components of its cost structure to reduce its costs further.
As a result of the 15 aircraft schedule reduction, Pinnacle expects fourth quarter earnings to decline between 10% and 15% as compared to its previous projections based on operating a full complement of 139 aircraft. The earnings impact could be materially greater based upon the final outcome of discussions with Northwest regarding Pinnacle's revenue to be earned under the ASA, and based upon the Company's ability to eliminate costs associated with the reduced operations.
On September 15, 2005, First Tennessee Bank advanced Pinnacle $17 million under the Company's revolving credit facility. Based on the informal discussions that Pinnacle has had with Northwest, Pinnacle expects to receive pro-rated payments on September 30, 2005 and October 17, 2005 from Northwest for regional airline services performed subsequent to September 14, 2005. If Northwest makes the pro-rated payments as expected, Pinnacle believes its liquidity is adequate.

 

[RampTower]

XJ gate agents in MSP, working the Avro C-gates, confirm that several of their positions are being cut "because the Avro is going away". The position cuts are confirmed (they have to rebid other concourses/gates) and their supervisors are telling them that Avro is going away. (Not trying to start sh!t.) Make your own judgement.