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mesaba flow up and down

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Just the opposite. The changes will require more efficiency. The contract decreased the requirement to make us efficient, because those rules diluted "penalty time" in the schedule. But you knew that, right?

You are the one that said your new works rules would require NWA to hire more pilots for the same amount of flying. That is a decrease in pilot efficiency, or "feather bedding" as its known in Union terms.


Check you time-line. The DC-9-10's were here long after the Avros came online.

So where are the DC-9-10's now?


Addition of the Avros at Mesaba has no impact on the deliveries of the A319's either.

How do you know how many would have been needed if NWA wouldn't have put the Avro's in service? You can't possibly know what effect past deliveries have had on current orders.

I seem to recall that recently NWA announced that they were taking a good number of small narrowbody aircraft out of service at the same time they announced that they were putting a good number of large RJ's in service. Coincidence?
 
Occams:

So if this is a win, then why would NWA need a flowdown to Mesaba if:

1. NWA has at least 500-700 pilots retiring in the next 3 years
2. the new work rule changes will need MORE pilots

Seems to me that there may be a MASSIVE park job in the future, and if this is true, the MEC can't say anyway due to disclosure. "Watch their feet" right?
 
How do you know how many would have been needed if NWA wouldn't have put the Avro's in service? You can't possibly know what effect past deliveries have had on current orders.


So, what is your background that leads to the expertise in a/c purchasing and delivery at NWA. If I remember correctly, the -10's were around long after the Avro's were put in service.
 
Occams:

So if this is a win, then why would NWA need a flowdown to Mesaba if:

1. NWA has at least 500-700 pilots retiring in the next 3 years
2. the new work rule changes will need MORE pilots

Seems to me that there may be a MASSIVE park job in the future, and if this is true, the MEC can't say anyway due to disclosure. "Watch their feet" right?

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the entire basis of the grievance predicated on the issue of no flow through with 9E? Had NWA never purchased them, couldn't they have flown the aircraft without an issue?
 
Occams:

So if this is a win, then why would NWA need a flowdown to Mesaba if:

1. NWA has at least 500-700 pilots retiring in the next 3 years
2. the new work rule changes will need MORE pilots

Seems to me that there may be a MASSIVE park job in the future, and if this is true, the MEC can't say anyway due to disclosure. "Watch their feet" right?

Why not get a flow down? It's job protection in a turbulent industry. And there is no way NW will entirely replace the DC 9 with SJ. There is a seat gap folks.

Boeing issued a PR today stating the market for RJs will be huge for the next 20 years. This RJ market is the 76+ seat aircraft. NW is holding out to see what else comes on the market besides the Ejet. Will Boeing develop a SJ????
 
If you think a flow through is good, ask someone from Eagle. See what they have to say.

I hope it is a good deal for those that want it, but something tells me NWA won't be handing out free jobs. They will probably dress up some turd, wrap it in a bow, and claim it is the best gift ever.

When they start parking 9s watch it. I smell forced B scale without furloughing.

Don't you guys have to vote on this?

"FLAME ON!" - JOHNNY STORM
 
Last edited:
How was the flowthrough bad for anyone from Eagle or Xjet that actually flowed into the mainline counterpart? How about we wait for the details on THIS flowthrough before we count it as a bad deal.


FO
 
You need to talk to the guys that didn't have "Eagle Rights" and the ones that were there for 12 years and still didn't get hired at mainline AA.

Right now any flow through may seem good. However, career pilots need to look ahead a few years and see how it will effect things. Look at the history of furloughs. There is a 6 to 8 year cycle. Six years from now you better have 600 + pilots below you no matter which airline you are at.

A flow down gives essentially a B scale pay rate for flying that used to be done by the DC9. Plus gives them breaks on furlough language and may force mainline guys back into a RJ.

Granted during times of expansion a flow is great. You look at NWAs numbers. There has been a sharp reduction in domestic flights and aircraft. Execs. have even stated that there will be further cuts to the domestic fleet that will be replace with RJ and the 175.

Don't get me wrong, I hope it is a great deal. I wouldn't trust them NWA Retards with a bucket of cat sh!t, much less expect them to put a good deal together. I am just saying read it very carefully before you vote it in.

It all depends on the language. You are right. We'll see.

How was the flowthrough bad for anyone from Eagle or Xjet that actually flowed into the mainline counterpart? How about we wait for the details on THIS flowthrough before we count it as a bad deal.


FO
 
Now for the money question.......

How long until XJ newbies are on the street again?

Oh yeah, and what kind of details are typically included in flowthrough agreements?
 
Flow through may give XJ an advantage in trying to compete for new hires. Believe it or not some people out there still desire the NWA poison pill. I would imagine flow through will work for some but I'm not sure about the masses. Cancellations for crew shortages have started already in DTW!
 

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