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Mesa upgrades
- Thread starter sled
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charters....cargo....network for other regionals......you have many choices.....the question remains...do you have the patience??? That company is frowned upon.
Air Wisconsin
Comair
Both hiring....
Its your choice. I believe CCair has a better contract than the bottom feeders of the industry.
Air Wisconsin
Comair
Both hiring....
Its your choice. I believe CCair has a better contract than the bottom feeders of the industry.
othello
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2001
- Posts
- 217
Sled,
You seem to know what you have signed up for so just don't complain in a year when the new car smell is gone and you realize that you are stuck working under the worst contract in the Industry, 8 days off per bid, only a 70 hr gaurentee. And don't forget about your 1.15 $ hr perdiem when most every other pilot in the industry is sleeping in there hotel making 1.40-1.50 per hr add that up over the year and see how much you have lost right there.
Mesa might be a better job than a CFI but that is about it.
Good Luck your going to need it.
You seem to know what you have signed up for so just don't complain in a year when the new car smell is gone and you realize that you are stuck working under the worst contract in the Industry, 8 days off per bid, only a 70 hr gaurentee. And don't forget about your 1.15 $ hr perdiem when most every other pilot in the industry is sleeping in there hotel making 1.40-1.50 per hr add that up over the year and see how much you have lost right there.
Mesa might be a better job than a CFI but that is about it.
Good Luck your going to need it.
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RIDETHELIGHTING
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2003
- Posts
- 702
WhiteCloud
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2002
- Posts
- 1,012
Thanks for the consideration. All the same, I need to work for a company that is able to guarantee a paycheck. My current company is shaky to say the least, and the best option would seem to be a company that provides rapid and stable upgrade. With time in of 4000+ hours, it's difficult to swallow the idea of going back into a C-207 or the best option being a cargo BE-99.
I've put nearly 7 years into this buiness and only desire to make a living at it ( i.e. able to pay bills consistantly).
After going thru the usual probation period, if I wind up stuck at Mesa, at least I'll be able to survive as a pilot again.
Someone please answer my original question!
I've put nearly 7 years into this buiness and only desire to make a living at it ( i.e. able to pay bills consistantly).
After going thru the usual probation period, if I wind up stuck at Mesa, at least I'll be able to survive as a pilot again.
Someone please answer my original question!
DorkProp
Dork No More!
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 271
Since it doesn't look like any Mesa guys are contributing here, I'll tell you what I know. An old college buddy of mine who has been at Mesa for over three years is FO on the jet. Last time I talked to him about two months ago, he said that there is no movement right now and no chance to upgrade. However, the situation might be different at Air Midwest, I don't know. This particular person went from 1900 FO to jet FO after about a year. But that was then and this is now.
othello
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2001
- Posts
- 217
ChinaClipper
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2002
- Posts
- 460
AMW is......
really short on the 1900, upgrades are coming fast and furious. Mesa has 13 Bids per year @ 70 hrs=910hrs per year. 8 days off for Reserve 10 for line holders. Most carriers have 75 per bid 12 per year= 900 min hrs per year. QOL sucks but the folks you fly with are great. Yup, it could be better but at least you don't have to BUY YOUR JOB, which many Mesa haters have done in the past. Good luck in your job hunt, bad times don't last and the pay off will come to those who can stick it out.
really short on the 1900, upgrades are coming fast and furious. Mesa has 13 Bids per year @ 70 hrs=910hrs per year. 8 days off for Reserve 10 for line holders. Most carriers have 75 per bid 12 per year= 900 min hrs per year. QOL sucks but the folks you fly with are great. Yup, it could be better but at least you don't have to BUY YOUR JOB, which many Mesa haters have done in the past. Good luck in your job hunt, bad times don't last and the pay off will come to those who can stick it out.
Hey sled,
From someone who can relate to your current position, I would sincerely consider applying elswhere. If this Mesa/ACA merger happens, there are going to be 1600 pilots added to the list ABOVE YOU. Any talk about fast upgrades is a bunch of horse pucky. Mesa may have a job for you at air midwest, however staffing levels change and you may find yourself locked into a Beach 1900 F. O. position for the next 5 years. All of this assumes the survival of USAIR and United. (And those two carriers survival is not assured). If you want to get some turbine time, I might consider it, as long as you view it in the short term, however, realize that by working for Mesa, just to get that time, you end up taking compensation away from other pilots. Here is the explanation: As long as Mesa management thinks that they can staff their airline with "Time builders"- they will never compensate the pilots who are working there as a career. As a matter of fact, you end up hurting the employees at other airlines by providing a work force that will trade compensation for up-grades (Boy that turbine PIC time will look good on a resume). Right now, the industry business model is changing. A lot of aviation proffesionals have stayed at "Regional Airlines" because of quality of life issues, days off, vacation time ETC. If these regional airlines are forced to compete with the Mesa School of Aviation, we end up lowering the bar for ALL airlines. Do you really want to work for that kind of place? Do you really want to work for a place that views all of it's Employee's as negatives on a balance sheet? I think you know the answer, there are lots of smaller companies that would not only be a "Hoot" to work for but also fairly compensate their employees. Try "Empire" Airlines in Cour de Laine, ID. Great management and a fun place to work.
From someone who can relate to your current position, I would sincerely consider applying elswhere. If this Mesa/ACA merger happens, there are going to be 1600 pilots added to the list ABOVE YOU. Any talk about fast upgrades is a bunch of horse pucky. Mesa may have a job for you at air midwest, however staffing levels change and you may find yourself locked into a Beach 1900 F. O. position for the next 5 years. All of this assumes the survival of USAIR and United. (And those two carriers survival is not assured). If you want to get some turbine time, I might consider it, as long as you view it in the short term, however, realize that by working for Mesa, just to get that time, you end up taking compensation away from other pilots. Here is the explanation: As long as Mesa management thinks that they can staff their airline with "Time builders"- they will never compensate the pilots who are working there as a career. As a matter of fact, you end up hurting the employees at other airlines by providing a work force that will trade compensation for up-grades (Boy that turbine PIC time will look good on a resume). Right now, the industry business model is changing. A lot of aviation proffesionals have stayed at "Regional Airlines" because of quality of life issues, days off, vacation time ETC. If these regional airlines are forced to compete with the Mesa School of Aviation, we end up lowering the bar for ALL airlines. Do you really want to work for that kind of place? Do you really want to work for a place that views all of it's Employee's as negatives on a balance sheet? I think you know the answer, there are lots of smaller companies that would not only be a "Hoot" to work for but also fairly compensate their employees. Try "Empire" Airlines in Cour de Laine, ID. Great management and a fun place to work.
dondk
Don't you wish
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 887
As a former mesa slave...
QOL does suck, but you do rack up the time quickly and become more competitve to other carriers. During my time Mesa was publishing the attrition numbers. For every captain leaving they had 4 FO's leave. It was 20+% turnover. On the AMW side they had 50% turnover in 18 months.
Commutablilty is non-existant unless you have years in with the company and even then it sucks. You will have to live in domicile and you will get the real garden spots out of training.
I ran into one of my former Captain's recently. He did tell me movement is happening fast and furious but the movement is in the 2-4 year seniority range and will not filter down to the newbies for awhile to come.
Seat locks I believe are back at MESA, 18 months, and you cannot cross equipments like you use to. You get the 1900, you will have to upgrade there first before going to the jet. It use to be you could go from 1900 FO to Jet Captain. (yea, the ROA accident (oops incident) had some of those)...
Bottom line... you don't mind living is one of those garden places, flying a crappy contract, getting crappy pay, and being looked down upon by most of the industry including those who fly the SAME colors as you... It is great experince and that is all there is to it....
Oh, I don't hate MESA.. It got me better jobs and made me more attractive to my employer's. It also taught me the value of a contract. 9E's is nothing to write home about, but I would not go back to MESA for anything.
Before I forget, the Mesa pilots are all great people, a great bunch of guys to fly with!!!
QOL does suck, but you do rack up the time quickly and become more competitve to other carriers. During my time Mesa was publishing the attrition numbers. For every captain leaving they had 4 FO's leave. It was 20+% turnover. On the AMW side they had 50% turnover in 18 months.
Commutablilty is non-existant unless you have years in with the company and even then it sucks. You will have to live in domicile and you will get the real garden spots out of training.
I ran into one of my former Captain's recently. He did tell me movement is happening fast and furious but the movement is in the 2-4 year seniority range and will not filter down to the newbies for awhile to come.
Seat locks I believe are back at MESA, 18 months, and you cannot cross equipments like you use to. You get the 1900, you will have to upgrade there first before going to the jet. It use to be you could go from 1900 FO to Jet Captain. (yea, the ROA accident (oops incident) had some of those)...
Bottom line... you don't mind living is one of those garden places, flying a crappy contract, getting crappy pay, and being looked down upon by most of the industry including those who fly the SAME colors as you... It is great experince and that is all there is to it....
Oh, I don't hate MESA.. It got me better jobs and made me more attractive to my employer's. It also taught me the value of a contract. 9E's is nothing to write home about, but I would not go back to MESA for anything.
Before I forget, the Mesa pilots are all great people, a great bunch of guys to fly with!!!
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Thanks, I'm getting a more detailed picture of my potential position within Mesa. And no, it certainly doesnt shine. I only need a place to hang my hat for another year or 2 at the most. Rapid upgrades lead to extra cash and all the other obvious QOL factors. That is why I've even considerd Mesa. Well, that and the fact that no one else has called.
I've spoke with Empire, Transtate, SkyWest ect. any company that I think would be a viable option for the future if it came to that. Aside from Empire everyone else is all booked up for the time being and I'm nearly on the street. I already have the T.T. 121 time, I'm just trying to ensure that I don't end up out in the cold.
I'm not trying to undermine the progression of regional pilot industry pay structure or play on the pro manegment side. I'm just trying survive with what we have to work with and the only thing I'm skilled at.
I've spoke with Empire, Transtate, SkyWest ect. any company that I think would be a viable option for the future if it came to that. Aside from Empire everyone else is all booked up for the time being and I'm nearly on the street. I already have the T.T. 121 time, I'm just trying to ensure that I don't end up out in the cold.
I'm not trying to undermine the progression of regional pilot industry pay structure or play on the pro manegment side. I'm just trying survive with what we have to work with and the only thing I'm skilled at.
Mesa
You know I find it amazing that all of these MESA bashers are that ignorant???!!!!How many has MESA furloughed?....Yea not to bad considering the economy huh? Why are you guys so anti MESA. What does mesa have to do with you guys? Are guys fuloughed or not happy and have no one else to blame.? Even guys that voted against the contract are gulity..... to bad you guys don't even know who those individuals are...but then again who are you???? If you think that Mesa is a bottom feeder apparantly you don't know what else is out there or maybe you have been spoiled.
No mention of Colgan, ASA pay for the right seat out of FSI in Vero, GS, I bet some of you guys might be some of those 250 hour FO's would you admit it ?....but why should I care does it have anything to do with me? ASA guys on this board call out your guys that bought their jobs yea you know who they are? Yea I am sure that helps your cause huh? Are you to chicken? Mesa will deal with their contract and learn from it. All your contracts when you vote and don't get what you want, Don't come to blame mesa because we can't vote for you. Just look at your union brothers and ask yourself what happened!!!!!!!!! It's funny that ya'll use Mesa as a patsy. Open your eyes
You know I find it amazing that all of these MESA bashers are that ignorant???!!!!How many has MESA furloughed?....Yea not to bad considering the economy huh? Why are you guys so anti MESA. What does mesa have to do with you guys? Are guys fuloughed or not happy and have no one else to blame.? Even guys that voted against the contract are gulity..... to bad you guys don't even know who those individuals are...but then again who are you???? If you think that Mesa is a bottom feeder apparantly you don't know what else is out there or maybe you have been spoiled.
No mention of Colgan, ASA pay for the right seat out of FSI in Vero, GS, I bet some of you guys might be some of those 250 hour FO's would you admit it ?....but why should I care does it have anything to do with me? ASA guys on this board call out your guys that bought their jobs yea you know who they are? Yea I am sure that helps your cause huh? Are you to chicken? Mesa will deal with their contract and learn from it. All your contracts when you vote and don't get what you want, Don't come to blame mesa because we can't vote for you. Just look at your union brothers and ask yourself what happened!!!!!!!!! It's funny that ya'll use Mesa as a patsy. Open your eyes
HEY HYPERBOY-TAKE SOME RITILAN AND EDUCATE YOURSELF!!!!
With 1400 hours and change, I wouldn't expect you to know the history of mesa and the other airlines that have been destroyed. Have you ever heard of "WESTAIR"? O. K., that might have been before your extensive aviation experience. Westair was a commuter airline operating in CA, OR, WA, ID, NV, MT. When Mesa acquired it, Westair had approximately 900 pilots. The management at mesa started the ol' assett transfer and eventually whittled the Westair folks down to about 250 pilots. When Mesa lost it's code share with UNITED (The first time), they just shut Westair down. In cas you haven't been paying attention to the facts- mesa did the same thing at CCAIR. That's putting people out on the streets because of "MIS-MANAGEMENT. You are technically correct though- MESA has never "FURLOUGHED" any one- they just shut them down and declare bankruptcy.
I am sorry for the rant, I'll try and control myself.
Devo
With 1400 hours and change, I wouldn't expect you to know the history of mesa and the other airlines that have been destroyed. Have you ever heard of "WESTAIR"? O. K., that might have been before your extensive aviation experience. Westair was a commuter airline operating in CA, OR, WA, ID, NV, MT. When Mesa acquired it, Westair had approximately 900 pilots. The management at mesa started the ol' assett transfer and eventually whittled the Westair folks down to about 250 pilots. When Mesa lost it's code share with UNITED (The first time), they just shut Westair down. In cas you haven't been paying attention to the facts- mesa did the same thing at CCAIR. That's putting people out on the streets because of "MIS-MANAGEMENT. You are technically correct though- MESA has never "FURLOUGHED" any one- they just shut them down and declare bankruptcy.
I am sorry for the rant, I'll try and control myself.
Devo
Ranting is good! In the grand cosmic scheme of things it
won't matter if Mesa is veiwed by many pilots as a bad company to work for.
It really depends on individuality of the person. Do they like what they do, who they work with, are they having fun. If they're a complainer-Mesa will $uck, but so will Air Wisconsin, ComAir and Skywest. It won't matter. BTW, I worked for Mesa a long time and had a great time and lifestyle.
won't matter if Mesa is veiwed by many pilots as a bad company to work for.
It really depends on individuality of the person. Do they like what they do, who they work with, are they having fun. If they're a complainer-Mesa will $uck, but so will Air Wisconsin, ComAir and Skywest. It won't matter. BTW, I worked for Mesa a long time and had a great time and lifestyle.
I really could have cared less about MESA - if you want to work for them great/whatever. Now that MESA is trying a hostile takeover of my company and take away my job, I have a slightly different opinion.
One answer to the MESA plague. Most go to MESA to build time. Convince the hiring committees of JetBlue, Southwest, Delta, FedEx, etc that if you fly for MESA, it is now by necessity a career job - you will be blacklisted from anything else in aviation.
One answer to the MESA plague. Most go to MESA to build time. Convince the hiring committees of JetBlue, Southwest, Delta, FedEx, etc that if you fly for MESA, it is now by necessity a career job - you will be blacklisted from anything else in aviation.
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