Mesa upgrades

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Empire?

I'm not going to weigh in on the Mesa debate per se. But if you are looking at companies to hang your hat for any significant time, don't look at Empire. I used to work there a few years back, flew with some great people, but worked for a bunch of a$$holes. I could bore you all with details of familiar stories, but I won't.

If you are just looking for some turbine time to improve your chances at Air Whiskey, Comair, SkyW, etc. Mesa might not be a bad option in the short term. Empire used to have, not sure anymore, a training contract... if they still have one, keep that in mind.

Most of all, good luck to you.

 

[WhiteCloud]

One answer to the MESA plague. Most go to MESA to build time. Convince the hiring committees of JetBlue, Southwest, Delta, FedEx, etc that if you fly for MESA, it is now by necessity a career job - you will be blacklisted from anything else in aviation.

With respect...without significant turbine time and some operational experience you are essentially "blacklisted" (non-competetive) from those companies anyway. Trying to convince pilots that need the experience not to get it for some abstract "save the industry" philosophy isn't going to work. They aren't in the industry yet. It's up to us, not a bunch of new hire pilots, to change things when we can. Will you walk rather than fly for JO?

 

[46Driver]

If MESA buys us, we lose the Delta contract. Without Delta benefits, I will not be able to get to work. I have my military reserves and will look for a helicopter job until I finish my Masters.

 

[WhiteCloud]

If MESA buys us, we lose the Delta contract. Without Delta benefits, I will not be able to get to work. I have my military reserves and will look for a helicopter job until I finish my Masters.

Thanks for the answer. I can't see working for MESA for long. Like most everyone else I'll move on when a better opportunity (most anything) comes up.

 

[acaTerry]

Be a man and work longer until you can get a job at a good airline. 7 years in aviation?....you're lucky to be even looking for a job in that short of a time.

Mesa predates on people like you....want a job, any job. Look at it this way: you have a job to do in your garage. But you have to buy tools. So instead of saving a little money and buying Sears, Husky, Mikita or some other good tools, you go to the 99-cent store and by a whole set for....99 cents. Great, you have your tools. Now start working. Guess what happens? You guessed it. The tools broke the first time you used them.

You have what, 2000 hours? You deserve better than Mesa. WAIT IT OUT. You'll be glad you did.

"Maturity is the ability to accept delayed gratification".

 

[SanJuanPlebe]

Oh the Mesa Bashers Live

Kids,

And I use that term on purpose, because reading some of these posts, I think we are all acting like "kids."

Mesa is not your problem. The Mesa Pilots are not your problem. Never have been, never will be. I compare a Mesa pilot to a battered wife (sorry Mesa folks, or which I am one of) you get told you're worthless long enough, you start to believe it and take your beatings with appreciation! But that's an inhouse problem we need to correct. You outsiders could help us correct it, or continue to contribute to it.

I laugh at all of the folks that hate us for voting on our TA (that was 6% Lower than industry average, but yet an INCREASE for us post 9-11) and how we've ruined the industry. C'mon folks....6%!!! While not a good thing, not this doom and gloom that others paint. They'd let you think we were doing it for 75% less! And before you get all fired up, I admire what ComAir, and company did! I walked the line with them....but sadly, we just couldn't get it done in our negotiating environment. But don't hate me for it!!!

Fact is, Mesa is growing and we need ALL of the pilots we can get. And upgrades, especially if your have an ATP and you are hired into the Dash or the Beech, will be almost instaneous. Fact, not fiction.

As for the ASA merger, I sure hope it doesn't go through. Not because of the merger of seniority lists. In one aspect, I know we'd (Mesa/ACA) would be a pilot group to be taken seriously at ALPA National, but on another, I suspect Ornstein would decimate your good Company like he has others. But sadly, I think Mr. Skeen is leading you on a pipe dream. When you can't even obtain financing on RJs/narrow bodies for your new venture, and Wall Street is giving you the "thumbs down" then maybe Mesa might be what saves your job.....Sad but true...and I mean that with the utmost sincerity. Trust me, I know what it is like to be managed by a bunch of clowns.....

And in my book, everyone's got a right to eat and provide for their family, as long as, of course, it's not at the expense of others (Freedom scabs).

SO, let's ride this thing out, let's stick together as PILOTS regardless of who we work for, and work to improve our profession as a WHOLE....not just one property at a time. Cause, as you know, there will ALWAYS be someone who is willing to "race to the bottom."

The Plebe

PS, your ire, although easily directed at Mesa, is truly misplaced. It should be directed at Ornstein and company and his Freedom friends who helped to undermine the negotiating process. Overall, those ALPA pilots did the absolute BEST they could possibly do....or else DW wouldn't have signed it!!!

 

[46Driver]

SanJuanPlebe,

You call it the "battered wife" syndrome. A more apt analogy is the "I was just following orders" refrain. I make no distinction between Orsnstein and his pilot minions. You became complicit when you knowingly took that job.

I didn't care about your working conditions, I didn't care when you took a large chunk of the UAL contract, but now you are trying to takeover my company. MESA will take our airplanes and furlough us while making you captains. I prefer to see Tom and Kerry dynamite the CRJ's and literally have a bonfire with the $250M in cash before you get your hands on them.

Finally, it is MESA that can't get financing for new CRJ's. That, along with UAL desperately needing our Dulles gates, are the primary reasons behind the takeover.

 

[OneTuffGuy]

hey hud you are so mislead call up Dave S at Airways and ask how behind MESA is at the flying they where suppose to cover. In fact if i am correct and I am sure a PSA Pilot will know, Mesa was suppose to take over DCA as of late spring 03 making it a mostly jet airport, however since they screwed up so bad PSA and ALG and maybe some others are still covering flying. Mesa sucks lets face it, everyone who works their defends it, until they leave and then they realize how much it sucked. No company will every be worse then MESA even McDonalds is a better place to work at. Plus you at least get free food.

And as for the MESA has great ontime numbers and such......you guys are so stupid to think they rest of us dont know you lie when you call times out just to make you look good. When you push of the gate at 10:15 that does not equal a 10:00 on time departure. I guess it is nice to be able to call times yourself. Dont kid yourseld MESA will always suck

 

[dondk]

Battered wife syndrome

I have to agree with SanjuanPlebe...

While working fror MESA I would have to agree with the Battered Wife Syndrome amongst most pilots. They way the pay was set up during my time, we were paid credit which was always less than block. No block or better, no extra pay if you went over block, no nothing. Yea, it sucked and if you were number 25 for takeoff on the last PHL push you were working for free. After awhile you would start to look at it as "I am getting turbine time for free". Yea, screwed up... but you also realize it is ONLY A JOB and you are at a REGIONAL.

Cancellations were common, calling in times to make it look better was SOP. You just have to realize it is a job and nothing more and definately not much less.


For ACA's sake, I hope MESA does not come in... If they do you can count on those ACA RJ's filling up the holes throughout the MESA system...

 

[saabtrash]

Don't use a regional as a stepping stone to get to another regional. That is why regional pilots have always gotten paid like sh*t, because it was simply a stepping stone to move onto bigger and better things. That is not the reality anymore and that whole thought process needs to change. Don't be a whore.

 

[OneTuffGuy]

hey hud does it hurt every month when you have to bend over and get your paycheck? the only reason you work for MESA is because you cant hired anywhere else

 

[3585CuRRenT]

Get in touch with [email protected]...they're hiring!

 

[timw777]

Don't be a sell out

Here is yet another reason why JO and his cronies can continue to reduce our profession to the poor state we find ourselves in.

Sled why not ask yourself this simple question

Can you look at yourself in the mirror every day and be proud to have taken the only job that was out there right now?

Why not wait until something comes around with class and a pilot group with big balls.

DONT BE A SELLOUT

 

[210FR8DOG]

alright you terdheads, I'm sick of this crap. I'm in the same position as sled only with more hours. Sent resumes to every Tom, Dick and Harry-A$$ (except Pinnacle, don't get me started)airline as soon as I got 200 multi.(in April) update by faxing, e-mailing and snail mail every 100 hours. NO RESPONSES FROM ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So am I suppose to keep flyin these 27,000 hour Barons for 20k with my ankles and knees burnin and my fingers and ears froze cause the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** heater works great under the panel but its so drafty you have to wear a snow suit? And all of this at 3am!! $300 bucks a month to send my daughter home to see her real mom cause I got NO FLIGHT BENEFITS other than the joy of landing in LUK every night. You little frick and fracks have all the answers don't you!! I know, I'll just wait here til ASA comes callin' next week! YEAH RIGHT!! Oh, did I mention a 10-year captain at Comair walked my resume in there? That was 2 months ago. Still waiting. "Air Wisconsin is hiring with as little as 1500 hours" hahahahah if your frickin' dad works there and you know at least 3 other pilots with LORs!! "don't use a regional to gain experience for another regional" Why the hell not? Do you think they'll be impressed with 3000 hours of Baron time? SURE THEY WILL!! Whatever. Yeah, I'll just keep flyin freight for a few more years and wait for my dream airline to come callin'. Or I could try to go to Mesa, fly some turbine equipment for the same 20k I'm making anyway, get some 121 experience and keep applying at ASA or wherever. Does anyone start out as a manager just because they want to real bad? NO!!! First you make crew leader, then assistant manager, then manager. "do whatever it takes to get on with a company you can be proud of" You mean like getting some 121/turbine time to be competitive? If you wise guys have a better idea for a freight dog to make it happen, I'm all ears. Until then I'll see you at Mesa!!!!(If I get the interview and pass it) It pisses me off all the simplistic answers everyone has from the outside. Mostly from people who are already flying jets and have a little leverage to use on a resume. I'm done. UUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!

 

[hyperboy]

yufhdb

Very nice. I am sure a lot of these guys have not done the time like you have heck some of them are probably paid for training. How many of you were cfi's prior to ......They can't mind their own business. You go!!!!!!!!!!!Some of these guys probably have not had to see some of these operations that are way worse than mesa will ever be but they don't know cause if they did...they would keep quiet. Go fr8do!!!g

 

[acaTerry]

The Mesa Pilots are not your problem. Never have been, never will be.

Yes, Mesa IS the problem. Like it or not, Mesa is a CANCER and you are a cancer cell.

but yet an INCREASE for us post 9-11)

Meager increase in salary + a lower monthly (ooooh, excuse me! BID gaurantee--2 day difference = pathetic excuse to try to sell as a pay increase. At least thats how it was explained to me by a Mesa pilot.
BTW, your BE1900 CA max pay is lower than a several year FO at CMR. Way to negotiaite pal.....


I think Mr. Skeen is leading you on a pipe dream.

I'd rather be part of a pipe dream than a living nightmare.....read that Mesa takeover.

SO, let's ride this thing out, let's stick together as PILOTS regardless of who we work for, and work to improve our profession as a WHOLE....

Oh, now after all you have to say to those of us who think a pilot is worth more than an a$$ pounding with a little sand sprinkled on......now you want to be everyones buddy and leader. Go away and climb back in bed with JO. How dare you chew us out and then come on talking about IMPROVING the profession. After you ruined it. Can you possibly be more hypocritical?

 

[DEVO]

Yes, some of us have "PAID OUR DUES". How about 2000 hours of dual given? How about being told "If you won't do it, we can always get somebody else". How about hiring minimums of 2000 hours total and 500 multi. Yea I know, "I've walked 15 miles through blowing snow, without any shoes on, to go to school".
Aviation is cyclical, at certain times, it is easier to get a job. That is the nature of the industry. When there is a glut of pilots, everybodies hiring minimums go up and the snakes roll out their "Neat Little cost reduction programs" (Like pay for training, training contracts, aviation "Flight Academies"). I would much rather work with somebody who had the "INTEGRITY" to stick out a lower paying position, than to work with some one who compromised their values in order to get "Turbine Time". Life is hard- once you get past that, it gets easier. Don't sell yourself short. Maintain your integrity and don't compromise your values or your standards. In the end, You will feel better for it.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Gonna P my pants

Good god, the high and mighty speak. Usually coming from a guy who thinks "selling out" and "lowering the Bar" doesn't include flying RJ's to replace a 737 or similar mainline A/C. Even funnier is a guy who PROBABLY BOUGHT HIS JOB to begin with. PFT ho's telling others to be brave..... Ki$$ my A$$! Sell out, you gotta be kidding....BTW Where is the "gotta hold the line" BS? Did PSA sell out to get jets where F28's/100's and 732 once flew?????

 

[DEVO]

Trolling for flamers 'Eh,
If your gonna "Walk the Walk" you had better be able to back it. Have you ever quit a job for safety reasons? Have you ever been involved in a Unionization effort? Have you ever volunteered for your union? How many funerals have you gone to? How many times have you been merged (And yes I'm talking about seniority integration without the "Whipsaw")? How many times have you refused an airplane? Have you ever called in "Fatigued"?
The problem with aviation is that we tend to prostitue ourselves in order to be "Competitive". Some of us won't play that game. If you plan on "Getting the BIG job" by putting in your time at some second rate carrier- that is up to you. The state of the economy and the glut of pilots looking for jobs right now probably means that the regional airline you are currently with is where you're gonna' be for a while. With that reality, Shouldn't you actually be working to "Improve" your airline, not only for yourself but also for the folks who come through the door behind you?
Personally, I would rather work for a place that I choose based upon it's merits. You talk about the "Lowering of the bar" with respect to main line carriers. In case you have been living in a cave somewhere- The business model has changed! The days of operating 737 with 25 people on board are GONE, bye-bye, never to come back. It is called "Economic Darwinism" and if you don't adapt, you're gone. In case you missed it somewhere, I'll explain it, even though it hurts: Low Cost Carriers making money hand over fist- Legacy carriers bleeding red ink all over the place. Low cost carrier sets the fares and makes money vs Legacy carrier matching low cost and loseing money. Legacy carriers have to borrow money at extremely high interest rates (And God only knows how they will pay it back) in order to keep business afloat. Low cost carrier cash rich. I'll let you figure out the rest but remember one thing- if you are providing feed for one of the legacy carriers, your fortunes rise or fall with that carrier.
Good luck, I wish the best to you in your aviation carreer.

 

[taloft]

Ok, so I'm curious.

What should a guy who has 2000 total and 500 multi do? Continue instructing for $15k/year with no pay increase, being paid for 6 hours out of every 12 at the airport, no medical benefits, no vacation, building piston time after 3 years of already doing this in survival mode? Let's not even mention the pay reduction due to the oncoming winter weather.

Or go to Mesa, who is apparently the only regional to show interest in the last 2 years, get a pay raise, fly larger equipment, get medical benefits and vacation while gaining part 121 experience? It's easy to call Mesa the bottom when you're above it. The truth is, there's a whole bottom below even Mesa and climbing out of it is not based on experience.

Yes, there are better regionals out there hiring, but what if they're not calling?

Why should someone not try to improve their working conditions? To many instructors, Mesa looks like an improvement.

Many of you calling Mesa bad, already have had your lucky break to move up. What about the rest of us that have been waiting it out? What alternatives would you suggest? I know people who have sent resumes into every place they can think of, including many alternatives you might suggest. What would you tell them if all those "better" places don't call back and Mesa does?

What would you tell someone who is at the true bottom rung, has bills to pay, and Mesa calls?