MESA pilots response to proposal

[350DRIVER]

ACA is not goin anywhere but down, if anything they should be thankful for Mesa wanting to buy them. 1) Job security, 2) financial shape of the company, 3) holdings, 4) growth potential, etc, etc, etc, are just a few of the variables that come to mind that Mesa currently has that ACA doesn't really seem to have.. What realistically does ACA has to offer.?? I personally would not touch them with a ten foot pole if I were Mesa since they lost United and this whole idea about going out on their own may prove to cause more financial problems than are anticipated. What "positive" things could ACA bring Mesa that they don't already have other than possibly costing Mesa some big bucks. I am very surprised given the success of Mesa that they would want to touch a possible "damaged" good given the current shape of the industry. Everyone bitc$es about Mesa because they voted the contract in but I have to laugh when I see what CHQ has just got, really not much difference at all....


3 5 0

 

[StarChecker]

Everyone bitc$es about Mesa because they voted the contract in but I have to laugh when I see what CHQ has just got, really not much difference at all....

I don't know how you can "laugh" at what we're getting if you actually read our contract. There's no similarity whatsoever...we got raises...no junior-manning, defeated the alter-ego and a lot of other improvements over what we had. How is any of that similar to what Mesa signed?

So either:
1. You have no reading comprehension
2. You didn't read it.

Fix both of those problems before you comment on our contract....thanks.

 

[lazy8s]

To echo StarChecker's reply to 350:

The CHQ contract also retains the 11 days off for reserve pilots (I believe you meas boys signed on for a whole 8 DAYS!! good one)
you get 12 days off min as a line holder (again missing the bar with a lousy 10!!)

No J/M, vastly improved health care, vision, 401K, child well care, etc...

Laugh all you want jacka$$, but I'll be at home 15 days a month while you are trying to figure out how to pay your bills and when you can get home to even see how much you owe!

have a nice flight....

Lazy8s

 

[350DRIVER]

I don't know how you can "laugh" at what we're getting if you actually read our contract. There's no similarity whatsoever...we got raises...no junior-manning, defeated the alter-ego and a lot of other improvements over what we had. How is any of that similar to what Mesa signed?

You really don't have too much to brag about at all..... Take a look at 4th year f.o pay and the so-called "raises" in general not to mention the other things. (food 4 thought) - What do you think Mesa did with Freedumb.? No similarity though in your opinion.....?!? You aren't close to the "top" ones.. You did have a chance though but failed. Why not open your eyes and read the "negative" comments from your own pilot group who are voting NO . This may answer a few of your questions and yes I did read it. Why exactly is it so "great" in your mind.?? You sure you are reading the same contract as I.?


c h e e r s to you

3 5 0

 

[mckpickle]

ACA is not goin anywhere but down, if anything they should be thankful for Mesa wanting to buy them. 1) Job security, 2) financial shape of the company, 3) holdings, 4) growth potential, etc, etc, etc, are just a few of the variables that come to mind that Mesa currently has that ACA doesn't really seem to have.. What realistically does ACA has to offer.?? I personally would not touch them with a ten foot pole if I were Mesa since they lost United and this whole idea about going out on their own may prove to cause more financial problems than are anticipated. What "positive" things could ACA bring Mesa that they don't already have other than possibly costing Mesa some big bucks. I am very surprised given the success of Mesa that they would want to touch a possible "damaged" good given the current shape of the industry. Everyone bitc$es about Mesa because they voted the contract in but I have to laugh when I see what CHQ has just got, really not much difference at all....


3 5 0

You are such a horses a$$. The only reason you company has any financial stability is because your growth has been financed on the backs of employees like yourself. You are a small man with no historical sense if you think this is good for the pilots of ACA.

Man JO just loves kool-aid drinkers like you.

I hope you do buy out ACA and then they run your retarded SCAB filled little company into the ground.

Fact is if any of your pilots had any balls at all than you would have stood up to JO, told him he could not boss you around and you woulnd't be the b1tch of the industry.

Thanks to your contract he now has enough stock value to pilage someone elses airline.

Funny how he has to work his but off for AC financing but has no problem paying a couple hundred mil for an airline.

 

[BlueCanoe]

Let me apologize for my colleagues. (The people who pose as CHQ employees - anyway. ) I will castigate them severely for taking flamebait. While there is the whole MESA-ACAI deal PROPOSED, let's leave my tiny company out of it. I will not compare who's contract (JOHNSON) is bigger. It is irrelevant, only how you use it (350, guess what? U J4J pilots get the top of the FO payscale. If you can't figure out everything else, my cousin 6-year old Timmy has a seat next to him in common sense class). You shouldn't MESA-bash, CHQ -bash, ASA-bash, ACA-bash, et.al. All it proves is that you are a dumb-arse.

Management is going to do what it wants. Everyone on this board seems to agree on this point. So ACA guys taking pot-shots at MESA, and visa-versa, over something that hasn't occurred is DUMB. We all know the "pecking order". Pan Am, Eastern, TWA (no, wait, I'm sorry. That's the 1960's). Let me try again. UAL, AMR, Northwest Orient. dern it, missed again! SWA, JB, AirTran (I think they're all making money). Point is, ladies and gentlemen, times change. If you don't your dead, so quit butting heads. Work together so it benefits EVERYONE (that requires give and take on both sides). MESA MGT has some sort of plan. The MEC's should start coming up with one as well. Measure twice, cut once. If you don't need the plan, save it for later, it'll be easier to modify it in the future than starting from scratch. I'll bet if we check our history, someone, somewhere didn't want to fly the "small planes " at the big boys, and the Connection or Express, or what ever was created (Yes the C-scale, which I'm on), instead of swallowing some pride so the future pilots (like us) could be on one of 7-10 mainline seniority lists. Better system for everybody, but it didn't occur.

It's funny how everyone wants to sing Kum-Bai-Yah as one big happy pilot family. Then a merger, or contract or new code-share comes along, and everyone is bashing? Hypocritical? Yes! Stop it and grow up.

 

[Herman Bloom]

acaTerry

Unfortunately I think you are right on about our pilot group. We'll all hear a lot of big talk if this happens, but the proof is in the pudding.

If these guys voted for the TA, nothing will stop them from voting for a major cut (ie, Mesa's contract) if it comes to that.

And to all my fellow ACAers out there: would you be willing to lose your job to protect this industry? I would. There are bigger fish in the sea.

 

[350DRIVER]

Pick"a"l-

Funny how he has to work his but off for AC financing but has no problem paying a couple hundred mil for an airline.

-

I guess he must be doing something right to be able to do this and have that kinda cash. Bottom line is ACA is fu$ked without UAL and without Mesa they will even be more fu$ked and will have to continue to furlough. Why not open your fu$kin eyes and wake up and realize that Mesa did nothing but improve job security, growth potential, etc, etc, .... You people that bash them should take a long hard look in the mirror.. Bottom line is that if ya don't like em then stay the fu$k away and don't apply... Very very simple solution that most should be able to grasp.

You are such a horses a$$. The only reason you company has any financial stability is because your growth has been financed on the backs of employees like yourself. You are a small man with no historical sense if you think this is good for the pilots of ACA.

How fu$kin comical you are. You have got to be smokin some good stuff if you honestly believe that.. It is more than just the "pilot group".. What do you think the "prospects" are for the company (ACA) short and long term.??

Fact is if any of your pilots had any balls at all than you would have stood up to JO, told him he could not boss you around and you woulnd't be the b1tch of the industry.

Once again, if you don't wanna fly for Mesa then don't fu$kin apply. I hate to listen to whiners and babies like you that have nothing more to say than to bi$ch and moan like a little girl who wet her panties accidently. Obviously if you have read the posts throughout the board you would see that plenty of pilots want to work for Mesa present day.

take the blinders off

3 5 0

 

[SmackYourPappy]

Pick"a"l-

How fu$kin comical you are. You have got to be smokin some good stuff if you honestly believe that.. It is more than just the "pilot group".. What do you think the "prospects" are for the company (ACA) short and long term.??

take the blinders off

3 5 0

Well my friend... please copy this statement to your harddrive and look back upon it every year or two. THE PROSPECTS NOW ARE MUCH BRIGHTER THAN THEY ARE WITH UAL AT THE HELM.

I am tired of trying to "educate" all my friends at other airlines about what's going on (including you.) From an outsider's perspective it might look like tough times ahead for ACA. But from the inside, we have all the core strengths to make it a go alone (instant planes, gates, people, and money -lots more than MAG or J.O.) Right now the reason nothing is seen as getting done, is that our hands are tied by the 800lb gorilla in BK Court. Why do you think that's so??? How about if we cut UA loose tomorrow, how long do you think it would take UA to recover? It could quite possibly push them over, hence the BK judge not allowing it. To your previous post that we "lost" the UA contract.... well if you believe that then I dont want to waste any more time with you (Stupid Is Stupid Does.)

If you look at ACA history, we have always been a strategic innovator. One of the first to get RJs (even before UA scope was relaxed). One of the first to have a fee-per-departure agreement. The list goes on. I am not trying to brag or flame, merely to say that our executive management has always seemed to be a step ahead of our industry. I have my beefs with our company as well, but those are mostly tactical and not strategic. It is this forward vision and the notion of controlling our destiny, and not being tied to a sinking ship, which provides the motivation for our company's new venture. As our mgmt has stated before in many public documents, the downside risk between re-inking with UA and starting Goldilox is about the same, the upside reward of Goldilox far outweighs the "8% guaranteed margin" that MAG or a new UA deal would provide. So after all due diligence is done, and that is the case, why would anyone in this position want to loose control of their operations to UA????

The best way to sum up our predicament is that if Goldilox takes off then we(the company and shareholders) get paid a handsome reward. If it fails, then we flounder around a while and eventually link up with another carrier to provide feed once again, since we have the "instant critical mass." Maybe then we'll think about a joint venture between MAG.

Tailwinds....
Pappy

ps: to Mr. BLOOM... I second your motion. I consider ACA's QOL the minimum for holding a decent job in these times. And if it comes down to it, you will not see me settling for anything less. There are many other options to make a good living, I for one will not drag down this industry any further.

pps: as to CHINACLIPPER... When I joined the company, we had not started the RJ revolution yet. When it came, and I flew to places like MOB where the only planes on the ramp were RJs, then I knew that we (collectively as ALL ariline pilots) had screwed the pooch and let the RJs create a systemwide B-scale all over again. As for our WHORING ourselves out, please remember that all pilots are WHORES... its just a matter of price. To take it a step further, in no way will I match match MESA's price on my QOL so I will gladly bow out before we get shafted like CCAir did. Just reference my above agreement with BLOOM. Good luck fighting over the cheap johns my friend......

 

[House_X]

3 5 0,

Thanks for the kick in the ball$ when ACA is down on the mat...that's very sporting of you ole' chap.

What has ACA ever done to you? This is a very serious situation and your responses have been very aggresive and antagonistic.

This buyout is more than just one company absorbing another...it's about the erosion of the airline profession and being able to feed your family. In every aspect of ACA, we have a better quality of life than Mesa. If ACA goes down the tubes, others will follow. OUR BUYOUT EFFECTS EVERY REGIONAL...NOBODY IS IMMUNE.

So, 350, I'm puzzled as to why you want the pilots of ACA to be in a worse off position than we are now...?

House

 

[mckpickle]

350

I wouldn't apply or work for MESA if it was the only airline that kept food on the table. You worthless spinless losers were the ones who started this whole race to the bottom.

And if you do not think that your growth is being financed on the backs of your employee groups try callin 877-MESA-CEO.

Your Lorenzo-esc comander in chief specifically states that that is the only reason that you have and growth. But don't forget ACA WOULDN'T BE IN THE FCUKING SITUATION IF YOU PEOPLE HAD A BACKBONE AND STOOD UP TO HIM AT ALL!

OH freedom is coming, freedom is coming Please. If you guys had enough balls to shut the doors Freedom would not have come. You, 350 make me fukcing sick!

 

[acaTerry]

350 Driver,

Thank you for wasting approximately 15 minutes of our lives reading your posts.
We have heard what you said and are all dumber from it.
Thanks again.......Dum-Bass

 

[eaglefly]

Tragically, every single one of the previous posts on this thread have missed the potential realities of this "marriage" should it come to fruition.

Johnnie "smooth talk" will do this deal identical to CC AIR. Once ACA's assets are acquired (either by negotiation or by "hostile" means if they go directly to the ACA shareholders), Mesa managment is then in the driver seat.

Unless union represented ACA employees have specific protections in their CBA's regarding merger and fragmentation, that means he will use whipsaw tactics to strongarm ACA employee groups to accept Mesa working conditions or gradually transfer work and assets to Mesa to be operated by Mesa employees. The only exception would be seniority integration issues which they probably will allow the unions to work out a'la AMR/TWA.

Should this disasterous situation (for ACA employees) occur you'll be working for the new "Lorenzo".

You might as well resign en mass.

I see "promises" of growth in exchange for current Mesa slave labor conditions.

I truly feel for the honorable pilots of ACA.

You're being hungrily eyed by the devil himself.

Study the Mesa contract to see what your future will be behind the "iron curtain".

 

[acapoisonpill]

What DID they tell you?

When we (ACA) considered wage concessions as a result of MESA taking paycuts as a result of FREEDOM, we were given many details of the contracts in the industry. Comair, roughly 1% above ACA. SKYW barely less than ACA, then our new TA, ARW EGL, PSA, MESA (2001), PCL, ALG, PDT, TSA and finally MESA's new agreement. We could and still can look up any 50 seat rate for any of these companies on our ALPA site. It was with this information that our pilot group made a decision to give the TA & UAL thing a go.

When I see Mesa pilot asking which contract is better, I wonder did they get you drunk or what?

ACA's secret poison pill is the pilot group, we don't always vote yes!!!

 

[350DRIVER]

Thanks for the kick in the ball$ when ACA is down on the mat...that's very sporting of you ole' chap.

House- I was just looking at the present day situation and what may or may not happen should this materialize, not meant to be a $hot in the balls. The only thing you and I can do is "speculate", however it is my personal opinion that this may indeed help you folks should Mesa choose to do this. I personally can't see why or how folks continue to bash Mesa when in fact it may be for the better and increase job security at ACA among other things should this happen. I just cannot see how one would continue to bash Mesa when you folks are in trouble like this.??

I wouldn't apply or work for MESA if it was the only airline that kept food on the table. You worthless spinless losers were the ones who started this whole race to the bottom.

That is your opinion and I am sure no love is lost by the other party... Plenty of folks DO want to fly for Mesa and I don't see any problem down the line in being able to obtain pilots. Like I said before, simple solution is don't fu$kin apply to Mesa... No problems for either party then but to continue to bash them for no reason is kind of ridiculous but think as you may.


3 5 0

 

[mckpickle]

It's not for NO reason. Its the action of a few (you) that are having negitive consequesnces on the entire industry.

You you honestly say that the industry as a whole is a better place because MESA is here? If you can I don't think anyone would agree.

 

[350DRIVER]

You you honestly say that the industry as a whole is a better place because MESA is here? If you can I don't think anyone would agree.

I can't argue with you on this one but it is my belief that the same level of respect that is given to other regional pilots should also be given to the Mesa pilots. Obviously one is not going to be overly happy with some things but like with every other profession/company you have your positives and negatives..



3 5 0

 

[BlueCanoe]

mcpickle,

Funny how one pilot can bring down an entire industry...I only thought 16yr contracts caused from consolidatoin whipsawing did that. Quit bashing.

 

[mckpickle]

.............. it is my belief that the same level of respect that is given to other regional pilots should also be given to the Mesa pilots.

3 5 0

Main Entry: 1re·spect
Pronunciation: ri-'spekt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin respectus, literally, act of looking back, from respicere to look back, regard, from re- + specere to look -- more at SPY
Date: 14th century
1 : a relation or reference to a particular thing or situation <remarks having respect to an earlier plan>
2 : an act of giving particular attention : CONSIDERATION
3 a : high or special regard : ESTEEM b : the quality or state of being esteemed :




Respect is something that is earned by proving yourself to your peers.

What has MESA done to earn the Respect of its peers?

I'm off my soap box now. I'll let the Blue-Ridgers take the fight. Just know you are supported

 

[T-Gates]

I just love it, when I partipated in all the PFT threads because I PFT'ed myself..... My 350Driver was quick to trash me and call me a $hitty pilot because I was a PFT "whore".

Now he is standing up for Mesa and others are trashing him.....and he runs to the bushes....

Revenge is sweet....

And I'm pulling for you ACA guys...



Disclaimer: Just besause I mentioned PFT, do not turn this into a PFT thread.....