MESA pilots response to proposal

[mckpickle]

350

I wouldn't apply or work for MESA if it was the only airline that kept food on the table. You worthless spinless losers were the ones who started this whole race to the bottom.

And if you do not think that your growth is being financed on the backs of your employee groups try callin 877-MESA-CEO.

Your Lorenzo-esc comander in chief specifically states that that is the only reason that you have and growth. But don't forget ACA WOULDN'T BE IN THE FCUKING SITUATION IF YOU PEOPLE HAD A BACKBONE AND STOOD UP TO HIM AT ALL!

OH freedom is coming, freedom is coming Please. If you guys had enough balls to shut the doors Freedom would not have come. You, 350 make me fukcing sick!

 

[acaTerry]

350 Driver,

Thank you for wasting approximately 15 minutes of our lives reading your posts.
We have heard what you said and are all dumber from it.
Thanks again.......Dum-Bass

 

[eaglefly]

Tragically, every single one of the previous posts on this thread have missed the potential realities of this "marriage" should it come to fruition.

Johnnie "smooth talk" will do this deal identical to CC AIR. Once ACA's assets are acquired (either by negotiation or by "hostile" means if they go directly to the ACA shareholders), Mesa managment is then in the driver seat.

Unless union represented ACA employees have specific protections in their CBA's regarding merger and fragmentation, that means he will use whipsaw tactics to strongarm ACA employee groups to accept Mesa working conditions or gradually transfer work and assets to Mesa to be operated by Mesa employees. The only exception would be seniority integration issues which they probably will allow the unions to work out a'la AMR/TWA.

Should this disasterous situation (for ACA employees) occur you'll be working for the new "Lorenzo".

You might as well resign en mass.

I see "promises" of growth in exchange for current Mesa slave labor conditions.

I truly feel for the honorable pilots of ACA.

You're being hungrily eyed by the devil himself.

Study the Mesa contract to see what your future will be behind the "iron curtain".

 

[acapoisonpill]

What DID they tell you?

When we (ACA) considered wage concessions as a result of MESA taking paycuts as a result of FREEDOM, we were given many details of the contracts in the industry. Comair, roughly 1% above ACA. SKYW barely less than ACA, then our new TA, ARW EGL, PSA, MESA (2001), PCL, ALG, PDT, TSA and finally MESA's new agreement. We could and still can look up any 50 seat rate for any of these companies on our ALPA site. It was with this information that our pilot group made a decision to give the TA & UAL thing a go.

When I see Mesa pilot asking which contract is better, I wonder did they get you drunk or what?

ACA's secret poison pill is the pilot group, we don't always vote yes!!!

 

[350DRIVER]

Thanks for the kick in the ball$ when ACA is down on the mat...that's very sporting of you ole' chap.

House- I was just looking at the present day situation and what may or may not happen should this materialize, not meant to be a $hot in the balls. The only thing you and I can do is "speculate", however it is my personal opinion that this may indeed help you folks should Mesa choose to do this. I personally can't see why or how folks continue to bash Mesa when in fact it may be for the better and increase job security at ACA among other things should this happen. I just cannot see how one would continue to bash Mesa when you folks are in trouble like this.??

I wouldn't apply or work for MESA if it was the only airline that kept food on the table. You worthless spinless losers were the ones who started this whole race to the bottom.

That is your opinion and I am sure no love is lost by the other party... Plenty of folks DO want to fly for Mesa and I don't see any problem down the line in being able to obtain pilots. Like I said before, simple solution is don't fu$kin apply to Mesa... No problems for either party then but to continue to bash them for no reason is kind of ridiculous but think as you may.


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[mckpickle]

It's not for NO reason. Its the action of a few (you) that are having negitive consequesnces on the entire industry.

You you honestly say that the industry as a whole is a better place because MESA is here? If you can I don't think anyone would agree.

 

[350DRIVER]

You you honestly say that the industry as a whole is a better place because MESA is here? If you can I don't think anyone would agree.

I can't argue with you on this one but it is my belief that the same level of respect that is given to other regional pilots should also be given to the Mesa pilots. Obviously one is not going to be overly happy with some things but like with every other profession/company you have your positives and negatives..



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[BlueCanoe]

mcpickle,

Funny how one pilot can bring down an entire industry...I only thought 16yr contracts caused from consolidatoin whipsawing did that. Quit bashing.

 

[mckpickle]

.............. it is my belief that the same level of respect that is given to other regional pilots should also be given to the Mesa pilots.

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Main Entry: 1re·spect
Pronunciation: ri-'spekt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin respectus, literally, act of looking back, from respicere to look back, regard, from re- + specere to look -- more at SPY
Date: 14th century
1 : a relation or reference to a particular thing or situation <remarks having respect to an earlier plan>
2 : an act of giving particular attention : CONSIDERATION
3 a : high or special regard : ESTEEM b : the quality or state of being esteemed :




Respect is something that is earned by proving yourself to your peers.

What has MESA done to earn the Respect of its peers?

I'm off my soap box now. I'll let the Blue-Ridgers take the fight. Just know you are supported

 

[T-Gates]

I just love it, when I partipated in all the PFT threads because I PFT'ed myself..... My 350Driver was quick to trash me and call me a $hitty pilot because I was a PFT "whore".

Now he is standing up for Mesa and others are trashing him.....and he runs to the bushes....

Revenge is sweet....

And I'm pulling for you ACA guys...



Disclaimer: Just besause I mentioned PFT, do not turn this into a PFT thread.....

 

[350DRIVER]

I just love it, when I partipated in all the PFT threads because I PFT'ed myself..... My 350Driver was quick to trash me and call me a $hitty pilot because I was a PFT "whore".

You "rented" a seat out and last I checked I noticed that Mesa does not have an agreement with Gulfjoke.... Obviously you had but "1" choice on where you were gonna get that jet gig. - I guess a blank check can you wonders for some pilots... God bless ya bud, better you than I.

Now he is standing up for Mesa and others are trashing him.....and he runs to the bushes....

I am right here... You take the mirrors down in your room so you don't have to look into them every morning.? - And to think you have the ball$ to comment after you bought your job.


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[T-Gates]

-

You "rented" a seat out and last I checked I noticed that Mesa does not have an agreement with Gulfjoke....

Ahhh yes.....This has everything to do with nothing......

Obviously you had but "1" choice on where you were gonna get that jet gig.

Oh yeah, I forgot that I had to miss out on the otherwise abundant positions available to non-GIA pilots......

I guess a blank check can you wonders for some pilots... God bless ya bud, better you than I.

I'm happy with my investment......

You take the mirrors down in your room so you don't have to look into them every morning.?

No, the cardboard box I live in is too small for mirrors.....

And to think you have the ball$ to comment after you bought your job.

Wait, I'll check.....

1...

2...

Yep still here......

 

[mckpickle]

I paid 10K for my seat. Best money I ever spent. Point is everyone was PFT in 97. Am I a whore 350?

 

[RubberDuck]

PFT = Pimple Faced Twit

 

[350DRIVER]

I paid 10K for my seat. Best money I ever spent. Point is everyone was PFT in 97. Am I a whore 350?

I don't believe SkyWest, Mesa, Eagle, Air Wisconsin, etc, etc, were PFT in 97' so apparently that shoots your theory down about "everyone" being PFT.... Are you a "whore".? As long as you are happy with your choice then I guess that is all that counts, better you than I. I don't think what you did is nearly as bad as the below average "kids" who have to write Gulfjoke a blank check present day to "rent" a seat out for 250 hours. I think $18,000 + dollars to do this is a complete joke and undercuts the industry as a whole. I think that is a much bigger problem than anything else with regards to PFT.


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[Anti-Matter]

Hey 350:

What kind of Kool-Aid did they feed you at whatever puppy-pilot mill you graduated from.

ACA did not "lose" United. We refused every one of their offers, and told them to go pound sand. This LCC idea was hatched long before UAL's Ch 11. How you can spin this into ACA loosing UAL is incomprehensible. On the other hand Mesa did "lose" UAL a few years back when UAL told them to go pound sand due to sloppy performance. Remember that? History will repeat itself.

I think ACA has (had) a good chance to stand on our own as an independant LCC. We have sharp management and dedicated, loyal employees whose morale went into warp drive when the LCC plan was announced. JO (Lorenzo-reincarnate) is threatening to ruin that. I hope there is a place in hell reserved for him and Lorenzo and Icahn. I know there is a place in Mesa seniority list for you. A lifetime place.

As we speak Richard Branson enters the stage. Hopefully this is good news.

Every pilot on ACA's list would rather risk going out on our own than work for the slime of the industry under the crappiest work rules in the industry.

By the way. I am a CRJ CA. I made 114 hours of pay last month with 14 days off (you see, we actually get paid when flights cancel, or our trips are dropped because of training/vacation. And we get paid 150-200% for being extended. And our per diem is 1.65/hour. And we don't get junior-manned. And we get block or better. And everything above 98 hours credited time is at 200%) I doubt I will be making that when JO comes to town. And I know you never will.

 

[N2264J]

ALPA merger policy

General Lee posted:

"Are they both ALPA? IF they are, then they follow the ALPA merger policy."


The hypocrisy in that statement coming from a Deltoid is stunning. I'm speechless..........

Right. Obviously, this Delta pilot is an authority on ALPA merger policy.

For a real hoot, take a few minutes and reread the Delta MEC's submission to the Executive Council about our failed PID.


You can find it here: http://www.rjdefense.com/dalmecmergsub.pdf

For the written arguments and the petition itself:
http://www.rjdefense.com/petition.pdf

http://www.rjdefense.com/ecpresin.pdf

 

[350DRIVER]

Anti-Matter..

What kind of Kool-Aid did they feed you at whatever puppy-pilot mill you graduated from.

I am not a fan of kool aid at all so I simply had to decline when I was offered it.. I prefer Sky vodka and OJ.

ACA did not "lose" United. We refused every one of their offers, and told them to go pound sand. This LCC idea was hatched long before UAL's Ch 11. How you can spin this into ACA loosing UAL is incomprehensible. On the other hand Mesa did "lose" UAL a few years back when UAL told them to go pound sand due to sloppy performance. Remember that? History will repeat itself.

Ok.... BUT look at the current situation that ACA finds itself in due to you guys telling them "to go pound sand" as you so nicely put it. This whole Mesa thing probably would never have came to light if you still had United and their probably would be 0 furloughed guys on the street. I truly hope that Mesa does NOT pursue this since I can't see how this could benefit Mesa by taking over a product that is somewhat in "trouble" and has a very uncertain future ahead. I personally wish you ACA guys all the best and really hope that Mesa does not do this. Mesa did "loose" UAL but look at what they were able to do over the years with regards to growth, new airplanes, routes, etc, etc, etc...

I think ACA has (had) a good chance to stand on our own as an independant LCC. We have sharp management and dedicated, loyal employees whose morale went into warp drive when the LCC plan was announced. JO (Lorenzo-reincarnate) is threatening to ruin that. I hope there is a place in hell reserved for him and Lorenzo and Icahn. I know there is a place in Mesa seniority list for you. A lifetime place.

I hope (had) is not in the equation. I sure hope that you "still" have a chance to prosper and be able to be successful on your own and this Mesa deal falls through. I have nothing but the best of wishes for you and the entire ACA group, this is much more than just a personal opinion.

Every pilot on ACA's list would rather risk going out on our own than work for the slime of the industry under the crappiest work rules in the industry.

Well then I truly hope that you are able to go out on your own and be successful and this deal falls through. I do think their is a problem though in a business plan when you have fellow brothers on furlough and you are continuing to furlough them... If I were at ACA I seriously would be just a tad concerned about many things, mainly "how" the future is going to work out without UAL and just how "solid" management's plan is.?

By the way. I am a CRJ CA. I made 114 hours of pay last month with 14 days off (you see, we actually get paid when flights cancel, or our trips are dropped because of training/vacation. And we get paid 150-200% for being extended. And our per diem is 1.65/hour. And we don't get junior-manned. And we get block or better. And everything above 98 hours credited time is at 200%) I doubt I will be making that when JO comes to town. And I know you never will.

Money is everything to some but to others job security, growth, equipment, strategy, etc, is just as important.


I wish you the guys the best of both worlds and hopefully you will be fine in the end.


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[George Jetson]

And everything above 98 hours credited time is at 200%)

I just read through your Section 3 and Section 4. Where does it say that you'll get 200% for all credit over 98 hours? Thanks! Maybe I missed it...or is it an LOA?

GJ

 

[N2264J]

Holy cow!

For a real hoot...

I just wanted to apoligize to the Mesa and ACA pilots up front for appearing to try to hijack their thread and turn it into yet another Delta/ASA/Comair family feud.

I know that hijacking a thread is tantamount to child molesting and I wanted you to have my mea culpa as soon as I realized my error.

I guess is just goes to show you that merger angst is universal.

I suppose I could move or delete my post but instead, you can find me at girlsgonewild.com.

 

[g159av8tor]

Pick"a"l-

-

I guess he must be doing something right to be able to do this and have that kinda cash. Bottom line is ACA is fu$ked without UAL and without Mesa they will even be more fu$ked and will have to continue to furlough. Why not open your fu$kin eyes and wake up and realize that Mesa did nothing but improve job security, growth potential, etc, etc, .... You people that bash them should take a long hard look in the mirror.. Bottom line is that if ya don't like em then stay the fu$k away and don't apply... Very very simple solution that most should be able to grasp.

You're an idiot, sir.

 

[RJPilott]

You're an idiot, sir.

As tempting as it may be to chastize, some Mesa pilots just "dont get it". Lets take the higher ground.. .shall we? Again i'll reiterate what i have posted in the past... that it is better to CFI on the side while selling cars (or whatever) and get your flying "fix" than be abused by JO. My statements are rather tame compared to many mature senior individuals at ACA. However, there is no need for name calling. If JO wants to turn the industry into Flying the Line Part III, I have a feeling the last chapter of his tenure will end with many accidents while pursuing the least experience to fly a jet at 1500TT and an FO at 300 with total crew cost below 50k. I almost feel its inevitable before the people, NTSB and FAA demand better quality. Love for something will be taken advantage of by those out to make a buck. To the Experienced aviators, i suggest having a foot in something else if you want to make a living. It will only get worse before it gets better. To JO... how does it feel to be so hated? Nice way to go through life.. huh? Many innocent passengers will perish at the hands of the highest bidder seeking the lowest labor cost. Such a shame. I predict JO will go down in the books as another Lorenzo (hated through and through), its unfortunate many lives will suffer as a result.

 

[SmackYourPappy]

I just read through your Section 3 and Section 4. Where does it say that you'll get 200% for all credit over 98 hours? Thanks! Maybe I missed it...or is it an LOA?

GJ

It's in section 5 - Here it is for you.

HOURS OF SERVICE
d. When a pilot fulfills the required notification to crew scheduling as provided in Section 5.A.3. above, any segment(s) that the pilot operates or deadheads in his revised schedule that cause him to exceed ninety eight (98) hours of credited flight time will be paid both toward and above his guarantee. Nothing in Section 5.A.3. shall reduce a pilot’s daily or monthly line guarantee.


By being paid toward AND above guarantee it's 200%. Another reason not to simply judge a contract by the hourly rates. Back 2 years ago with the whole ACJet fiasco, my roommate was a DoJet CA who was protected at CRJ CA rates and logging 85-95 hours/month, but was getting PAID 200 to 230 credit hours due to such "soft time guarantees." Those times are gone since the company cracked down, but we can still easily be paid 120hrs/mo and have 14-15 days off.


Tailwinds...

 

[mckpickle]

350 Do you even fly for an airline?

 

[stillaboo]

When we (ACA) considered wage concessions as a result of MESA taking paycuts as a result of FREEDOM, we were given many details of the contracts in the industry. Comair, roughly 1% above ACA. SKYW barely less than ACA, then our new TA, ARW EGL, PSA, MESA (2001), PCL, ALG, PDT, TSA and finally MESA's new agreement.

Whoever gave you those details was wrong about Mesa's contract at least. Mesa did not take a pay cut at any point, and in fact got a pay raise. Now, whether the raise was enough of one is something that could be questioned.

ACA's secret poison pill is the pilot group, we don't always vote yes!!!

ACA voted 'yes' to concessions to keep the United contract, correct? It was ultimately managment who decided that the margins UAL were offering to ACA were not satisfactory, thus the concessions have yet to become effective. All regional pilot groups are dominated by young pilots who are eager to vote yes; it's the nature of the beast. Commair showed great leadership when they got the strike vote. That's the key - leadership from the senior guys who've been through it before.

ACA pilots have no say in this proposed merger (nor do Mesa pilots). Instead of trying to create bad blood between the 2 sides, wouldn't it be more productive to find some common ground?

If you think ACA pay rates are good at 900 hours min guarantee, you should see then at 910 hours min guarantee - Mesa's min. ACA could also benefit from 'time and a 1/2' over your min., another feature of the Mesa contract. Mesa could use some of ACA's soft $ provisions (well, just about all of them, actually ).

Whatever does happen, if Mesa and ACA do merge, they will be the largest regional in the country. There's plenty of bargaining power that comes with that.

 

[350DRIVER]

350 Do you even fly for an airline?

At the present time, NO I do not... Mesa hopefully soon though.





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[mckpickle]

At the present time, NO I do not... Mesa hopefully soon though.





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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..breath......AAAAAAAAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ok now it all makes sense now. What does it say about someone who wants to work for the airline with the WORSTE of everything in the industry.

Man setting your sights pretty high there buddy.

 

[350DRIVER]

McPick"a"l-

Keep smoking that crack... You are hilarious...

$10,000n LIGHTER in thy pocket too eghh...

You sure should be proud of yourself. !! !! (stupidity is always comical)-

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[PositiveRate]

350

You are at the top of my worthless posters list. I remember when you'd rant and rave about the morality and ethics of PFT, yet somehow you don't see how whoring yourself to Mesa, the whore of the industry, is not much worse. Little wannabes like yourself are literally fighting against the rest of us who'd like to protect and promote our profession. Why don't you stick to the immature threads about picking up chicks and partying in Vegas because you're obviously so cool....

Honestly, I'm amused and not surprised that you come on here bragging about your offer or whatever you have going on at Mesa, spouting off like you are some kind of authority. The fact that you'd call going to Mesa "movin' on up" shows that you really don't have a clue. The death of professional pilots is well on its way to fruition because of tools like you.

Flame away!

 

[mckpickle]

You've been beaten enough on this thread. You just go fly your little airplanes around and stop wearing out your knee-pads to get hired by MESA. I wouldn't swallow if I were you though, seems like you've already gotten a belly full of the MESA kool-aid.

And like I said, best money I've ever spent. I'm not sure what the Left coast airlines were doing in 96/97, but Most places were PFT. So jackhole, I paid my dues instructing in the Northeast, and then went to a regional. But you just have fun in that king air and the old C-1-7-2-Heavy.