Mesa pilots in PHX with plywood boards?

[waverider]

It's a sad state of affairs when that's what it would take to affect positive change. Can someone tell me if the FAA is aware of what's going on?

 

[supsup]

I've got a solution. If you don't like it quit. Work some place else.

supsup

 

[TheGuat]

It's a sad state of affairs when that's what it would take to affect positive change. Can someone tell me if the FAA is aware of what's going on?

Why would the FAA care? It's not illegal what they are doing.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Why would the FAA care? It's not illegal what they are doing.

No the FAA wouldn't care, but I'll be the Arizona Republic may be interested to hear how the pilots of the aircraft flying out of Phoenix are living while they're on the road. I can't imagine the shock value that article would have. Anonymously written of course!

 

[siucavflight]

No the FAA wouldn't care, but I'll be the Arizona Republic may be interested to hear how the pilots of the aircraft flying out of Phoenix are living while they're on the road. I can't imagine the shock value that article would have. Anonymously written of course!

Yes, now, I would like to see that happen.

 

[johndt]

You don't have to quit. Just call in fatigued every time. You -know- it's not safe, so don't do it. One day your luck is going to run out, the worst is going to happen, and you're going to be too tired to get yourself and your trusting pax out of it alive.

CALL IN FATIGUED. Be a professional. And demand to be treated as such.

 

[Sam Snead]

No the FAA wouldn't care, but I'll be the Arizona Republic may be interested to hear how the pilots of the aircraft flying out of Phoenix are living while they're on the road. I can't imagine the shock value that article would have. Anonymously written of course!

How about having the Arizona Republic read this thread? Seriously. All they need is a lead.

 

[Sam Snead]

You don't have to quit. Just call in fatigued every time. You -know- it's not safe, so don't do it. One day your luck is going to run out, the worst is going to happen, and you're going to be too tired to get yourself and your trusting pax out of it alive.

CALL IN FATIGUED. Be a professional. And demand to be treated as such.

How would calling in fatiqued work? If you're ON the trip, you've already ACCEPTED the trip... so I guess by this rationale, you could never accept the trip in the first place. Which only thousands of your peers already have without formal complaint.

Unless you know of any formal complaints, which I don't.

 

[waverider]

How about having the Arizona Republic read this thread? Seriously. All they need is a lead.

Good call.

 

[fried chickens]

You don't have to quit. Just call in fatigued every time. You -know- it's not safe, so don't do it. One day your luck is going to run out, the worst is going to happen, and you're going to be too tired to get yourself and your trusting pax out of it alive.

CALL IN FATIGUED. Be a professional. And demand to be treated as such.

Call in fatigued after being on duty for less than 10 hrs?

 

[imacdog]

Call in fatigued after being on duty for less than 10 hrs?

If your circadian rhythm is off, why not? Total duty time is only one thing that can contribute to fatigue.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So some of you are now discussing fatigue but the fear of management has yielded confusion.

Best to get to know one of your best freinds in managment labor relations: Fatigue and sick calls. I'll refer to Sensei, Austin Hondo, and his historic document.

Since my days as a non-fancy lad are coming to an end, the time has come to address the new-hire classes of 1999. You'll have to play that creepy top-40 tune in your head as you read this, this version is called....

PACK VASELINE


Pack Vaseline in your flight kit. This is the only concrete advice I can give you. Studies have proven that packing Vaseline in your flight kit will ease the pain as any one of Hulas' monkey soldiers slides you the dry, sand-coated salami up where the sun don't shine while you're bent over some technicality or black-and-white self-serving interpretation of the rules while they whip you upside the head with their despicable yet unique lack of ethical behavior. Pack Vaseline, my friends.

The rest of my advice is simply the ramblings of another burned-out idiot Captain based on over three years of survival in the Aviation version of Shawshank.

Remember grandpa's rules for self defense: Deny, deny, deny, and make counter-accusations. Example: "I turned in that Irregularity Report on time, I did just what you said and slid it under the door after hours, I never break the rules, maybe YOUR staff lost the report!"

Always be polite. When you yell or get angry you just look like a jackass. It makes the rest of us look like idiots. Shouting and pissing contests are for the weak. Be passive-aggressive. Accept the reroute cheerfully on the in-range call then [very diplomatically] call in fatigued when you get in. Eventually they will get the point and stop messing with you. Think before you speak.

Make an effort to enjoy the flying. You are working at a commuter airline. Enjoy the VFR patters, circling, and non-towered operations. It may be the last time you experience these things in your career.

Stop whining. Your spouse doesn't like it, your parents don't like it, the F/O HATES it, and the Captain can barely tolerate your chicken-******************** rambling about low-pay and bad schedules. They don't ask garbage men during their interviews if they mind getting their hands dirty, they didn't ask you if you minded working at a commuter because that's where you just applied. Redirect your negative energy into something useful like volunteering for an ALPA position and fighting for change.

Maybe you'll pass training
Maybe you won't
Maybe you'll bust upgrade,
Maybe you won't
Maybe you'll be fired out of SVT,
Maybe you won't

But you will be expected to do a good job flying the line by other pilots.
And at some point management will accuse you of being part of a broad, far-reaching conspiracy-because they are bitter old losers. And the next telephone call could be USAirways calling to recruit you despite your on-the-job performance.

Don't be too proud to be flying your aircraft. Most of the passengers think that ATRs are the smallest thing they've ever been on. A Jetstream is bigger than a 152 or a Baron but remember folks it is just a Jetstream. Instead, wow yourself with being a really good First Officer. Fly your best whenever you can. Then you'll find upgrade isn't so bad after all.

Listen carefully to everything the old farts have to say. They may be eccentric, eclectic, or downright offensive -- but after you work for Hulas for 10 years you will be too. 10 years without getting fired or fed-up is pretty dang impressive. These guys will show you how to survive and have fun. But -
If they are overly negative don't be afraid to ask them to quit their job and get out of your seat.

Fill out the paperwork, it may save your ass someday. If you've been here more than 18 months and you haven't filled out an Irregularity form, Hotel Incident Report, Trip Report (at least six), or filed a Grievance then you just aren't with us, are you?

If you are single, date as many people as you can- taking advantage of your mobility. This will enrich your life beyond your wildest expectations. If you are married or steady with someone then don't cheat. This will destroy your life and add more stress than you can imagine.

Maybe you'll be fun to fly with
Maybe you won't
Maybe you'll marry a pilot and have kids
Maybe you won't
Maybe you'll overcome your gender-biased attitudes
I seriously doubt that
Maybe you will be able to control the frustration
Maybe you won't

But one thing's for certain - I hope to see all of you someday in the show.
The past three years were the best and the worst I could ask for.
And you all
should pack
Vaseline.
Good-bye and good luck!

-Austin Hondo


​

 

[pilot772]

How about having the Arizona Republic read this thread? Seriously. All they need is a lead.

I know of several Mesa PHX based pilots that have sent copies of these types of shifts along with detailed synopsises of what is going on to both the Arizona republic as well as the East Valley Tribune and even some of the TV stations. There just doesn't seem to be n interest in the story.

 

[CoATP]

You would think that after the LEX accident; fatigue (controller or pilot) would be a hot issue for the mainstream media. Sigh. They don't give a hoot until something bites them in the empennage

 

[johndt]

How would calling in fatiqued work? If you're ON the trip, you've already ACCEPTED the trip...

No, I would accept the trip, and then refuse the leg following my plywood layover. I would be respectful when I did it and tell them I need to get some sleep. If they want to get me a hotel, then I'll be back in 4 hours to do whatever leg they want me for, and if not then 8 hours on a crj should just about fix me up.

Or, maybe you could tell the company that you want to save money on the APU gas and that you'll sleep at the gate in a sleeping bag, with a sign that says, "I'm your pilot for this morning. Please be respectful and keep your voices down."

 

[eddie]

Geez - I want a list of flights these guys are flying the next day so I don't plan to nonrev with one of these crews in command!

It's very wrong to put any legs after a red-eye or standup, I don't want to be a passenger on one of those flights! Maybe it's just safer to fly on Mesa between about 1pm and 4pm, that way the crews should be relatively fresh.

 

[ultrarunner]

Hey, those boys and girls signed up for it. You can feel sorry for them all you want, but if they are not willing to take a stand, then your only resort is to be mad at management..and why be mad when you can be happy?!

PRESS ON for christ sake!

 

[Ezralite]

Maybe if these guys WOOD quit LUMBERing around the airport with their porta-cots and take a stand, something WOOD change. Until then, the sons of BIRCHES have no right to complain, not that management would LINDEN ear anyway.

PLANK you very much

 

[rickair7777]

Geez - I want a list of flights these guys are flying the next day so I don't plan to nonrev with one of these crews in command!

It's very wrong to put any legs after a red-eye or standup, I don't want to be a passenger on one of those flights! Maybe it's just safer to fly on Mesa between about 1pm and 4pm, that way the crews should be relatively fresh.

First AM departure to PHX on USAir/America West express from these cities is probably a camping trip...

SAT
AUS
SLC
GEG
PDX
MFR
YEG
YYC
DFW?
IAH?

 

[Pilot124]

Anything with the word MESA in draws 8 some pages of MESA bashing. Take a good hard look at your OWN PATHETIC company. These overnights are almost the same as other companies. 4 hours, some 4:30 hours you get a hotel room. Lets not forget that these pilots are signing up for these high speeds so they are home every day sleeping. These bids are 28 days long so their bodies are well adjusted to flying at night. You all need to get a life and worry about your own company instead of the status quote of bashing MESA for the same thing YOU DO!!

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Anything with the word MESA in draws 8 some pages of MESA bashing. Take a good hard look at your OWN PATHETIC company. These overnights are almost the same as other companies. 4 hours, some 4:30 hours you get a hotel room. Lets not forget that these pilots are signing up for these high speeds so they are home every day sleeping. These bids are 28 days long so their bodies are well adjusted to flying at night. You all need to get a life and worry about your own company instead of the status quote of bashing MESA for the same thing YOU DO!!

You guys earned the bashing. No other airlines have sleepovers on the airplane in the wee hours of the night. Posts like this don't help your cause. What wood help your cause is if you acknowledged and did something about the f'd up contract and work conditions you work under that negatively affect the rest of the profession. Might I remind you of the demise of ACA/Independence. No more campy childish prostandards videos - get a clue.

 

[waverider]

You guys earned the bashing. No other airlines have sleepovers on the airplane in the wee hours of the night. Posts like this don't help your cause. What wood help your cause is if you acknowledged and did something about the f'd up contract and work conditions you work under that negatively affect the rest of the profession. Might I remind you of the demise of ACA/Independence. No more campy childish prostandards videos - get a clue.

I almost snorted on my drink reading that one. Nice :laugh:

 

[XJohXJ]

Yes, there are many problems throughout the regional industry, but NO ONE ELSE pulls sh!t like sleeping in the airplane in the dead of night and then flying a few more legs afterwards! It is just deeply pathetic, and is lower than any other low out there! Yes, high speeds, cdo's, whatever you call them should be illegal, as they are not safe, especially in a flip flop or reserve schedule. In fact, some folks call them illegals. But the fact remains, you are sleeping in a bed, even if only for 5 or 6 hours, and then you only have ONE LEG after waking up. And you GET A HOTEL!

 

[rickair7777]

Anything with the word MESA in draws 8 some pages of MESA bashing. Take a good hard look at your OWN PATHETIC company. These overnights are almost the same as other companies. 4 hours, some 4:30 hours you get a hotel room. Lets not forget that these pilots are signing up for these high speeds so they are home every day sleeping. These bids are 28 days long so their bodies are well adjusted to flying at night. You all need to get a life and worry about your own company instead of the status quote of bashing MESA for the same thing YOU DO!!

No, your bodies are never adjusted to flying at night, half of those standups are done by reserves, who get flip-flopped a couple times a week. If you have a family, roomates, or neighbors with lawnmowers it is essentially impossible to return home and get any kind of good sleep during the day.

And I did that crap long enough to know what I'm talking about. There is no possible way to justify mesa, and people are starting to realize that. Eventaully when enough CFI's get the word and enough mesa pilots wise up and quit, JO will not be able to meet his contractual obligations, and that will be the end of mesa as we know it...there are just not enough people like you who are willing to do anything so you can say you fly a jet...

 

[Soverytired]

No one, and I mean NO ONE, hates these camping trips more than I.

Howerver:

They are FAR legal, so the government thinks they're A.O.K.

They are within the limits of what our union negotiated (and the pilots voted FOR) during our last contract.

Ergo, all this chit-chat about "Just stand up for yourself! Grow a pair!" is just alot of hot air. These things are gonna be around until our next contract and there ain't jack squat anybody can do about it. Too bad thats at least 4-5 years away. (ASA's been bargining for what, 4 years now?)

Only immediate solution: quit and go somewhere else. Which numerous pilots seem to be doing.

 

[johndt]

call in fatigued.

 

[Pilot124]

All this MESA bashing reminds me Jr. High where kids would tease other students to make them feel as insecure as they do. Grow up already, and while you're at it KIDS tell us how GREAT your company is at................
Comair
Eagle
ExpressJet
Mesaba
Chautauqua
SkyWest
ASA
Pinacle
TSA
Air Wisconsin
Colgan
Piedmont

NOT THAT GOOD IS IT?
We should all come togeter as one, and I agree that Mesa is one company that needs to fix things despretely, but so does YOUR GREAT COMPANY.

 

[azpilot]

Anything with the word MESA in draws 8 some pages of MESA bashing. Take a good hard look at your OWN PATHETIC company. These overnights are almost the same as other companies. 4 hours, some 4:30 hours you get a hotel room. Lets not forget that these pilots are signing up for these high speeds so they are home every day sleeping. These bids are 28 days long so their bodies are well adjusted to flying at night. You all need to get a life and worry about your own company instead of the status quote of bashing MESA for the same thing YOU DO!!

I disagree. This is not safe period. As for my own company, ExpressJet, we don't do this. I also don't think our company is pathetic. I have friends that work at Mesa and they do think their company is pathetic. Not sure about FedEx or UPS work rules but I doubt they do 4 legs on any red-eye flying.

 

[johndt]

Not bashing Mesa --

call in fatigued

 

[azpilot]

All this MESA bashing reminds me Jr. High where kids would tease other students to make them feel as insecure as they do. Grow up already, and while you're at it KIDS tell us how GREAT your company is at................

NOT THAT GOOD IS IT?
We should all come togeter as one, and I agree that Mesa is one company that needs to fix things despretely, but so does YOUR GREAT COMPANY.

Well... you can disagree but I think ExpressJet is a pretty great company. I am not a kid, I am 37, I have worked for a variety of companies and I would say xjet is pretty well run.... I agree we should stick together and hold the line on lower wages. All you young folks with Shiny Jet Syndrome please don't sell yourselves short.