MESA or JB

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

Senior Mesa Capt (more than 13 years ) or Go to JB. My JB class date is next month

 

[say again]

Where do you live? how is your quality of life? family? Have you seen JB's benefit package (sucks)? All important questions that no one can answer for you. It's kind of sad/odd that people can't decide whether to leave Mesa for JB. Best of luck with your choice! Aviation is a gamble.

Personally, I'd stay and wait for the legacies to hire!

 

[fifty30retard]

Senior Mesa Capt (more than 13 years ) or Go to JB. My JB class date is next month

Come to B6 for a SIC type in the A320, then put out any and all applications from this stepping stone of a regional airline that just happens to fly airbuses.

This management team sucks and you have no future here, so use them as much as they will use you, then leave.

 

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

Where do you live? how is your quality of life? family? Have you seen JB's benefit package (sucks)? All important questions that no one can answer for you. It's kind of sad/odd that people can't decide whether to leave Mesa for JB. Best of luck with your choice! Aviation is a gamble.

Personally, I'd stay and wait for the legacies to hire!

It seems the biggest gripe is health INS the B6 pilots have. Is that all ? I will be commuting, I currently already am. Maybe I'll just flip a coin. Personally if I could be an airbus FO in MCO Making 100k+ after 5 years I'd take it over staying at Mesa

 

[Chairman]

I was making over 100k at the regionals at 2007 when I left for a major and was eventually furloughed and although I would not wish that on anyone I eventually got hired at VX. While far from perfect and the pay and work rules need to improve I have never regretted leaving. I say go for it because when all the regionals get squeezed between gas and scope you don't want to be another RJ Captain looking for work as it will be hard to stand out in that crowd.

Chairman

 

[Smarta$$]

Where do you live? how is your quality of life? family? Have you seen JB's benefit package (sucks)? All important questions that no one can answer for you. It's kind of sad/odd that people can't decide whether to leave Mesa for JB. Best of luck with your choice! Aviation is a gamble.

Personally, I'd stay and wait for the legacies to hire!

I'm sorry JB turned you down. You can reapply after a period of time though. Where do you work currently?

 

[StarChecker]

It's kind of sad/odd that people can't decide whether to leave Mesa for JB.

Personally, I'd stay and wait for the legacies to hire!

Exactly. Just the fact that such a question needs to be asked speaks volumes. No one wonders about leaving a regional to go to any other "major" airline except JetBlue.

We have almost no retirements for at least another 15 years. You come now...you'll have to rely on attrition to upgrade any time in the next decade.

Unless you live in NY...I would wait for retirements to kick in everywhere else.


By the way....I live in NY 20 minutes from JFK and I would bail the INSTANT FedEx calls.

 

[Flyby1206]

Didnt you start a thread about a month ago asking the same thing? And then started $hit talking JB and how you would never want to go there?! WTF?

Here it is:

Have you seen the projected retirement numbers of the legacies ??

True a contract carrier may not be the best however, my scope is better than JBs.. Good luck with that come merger time.

What was the newcast regarding JB and disposing of the 190 anyway ??

e

I appreciate it..

However, I don't see whats so great about being a junior FO for many years to come in the 190 in JFK or BOS ? All to make the same pay I am now, our pay scale goes to 105 an hour.

JB has to nearly double in size before I will ever see the left seat. I don't think that is possible. Seeing the legacys are cutting capacity in the coming years.

Its a gamble, I know. Its just a personal choice. Good luck to all

Agree. Seems like a lot of working it for 85k, ( if that ) All to never see the left seat and leave when AA,UAL hires. I'll stay in my 700/900 and wait it out, and avoid 2 paycuts.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=144140

 

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

Yea so whats your point ?

 

[Flyby1206]

Yea so whats your point ?

Im just curious what made you change your mind? Why do you want to come to jetblue after all the negative things you had to say about it?

 

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

I am on the fence to be very honest with you.. Today it's a no. Tomorrow morning I may change my mind. Like many say, JB is a great airline if you were hired 5+ years ago, good seniority, furlough protection, etc.. As a new hire, how many pilots can you really expect to be hired behind you over the next 5 years ? Not many from what I am hearing.

 

[fifty30retard]

I'm sorry JB turned you down. You can reapply after a period of time though. Where do you work currently?

Don't come to B6, you're stuck in the right seat with bad medical and bad retirement. Go where you might be appreciated. At B6, bad management tells you you're lucky to have a job, then the gift themselves with 15,000,000 shares of stock each year, the same stock they ask you to buy through the employee purchase program, 8,000,000 shares a year. That's right, it's diluted 2:1 by managers, and these clowns on this site have nothing but good to say about them. What does that say about the clowns?

 

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

Don't come to B6, you're stuck in the right seat with bad medical and bad retirement. Go where you might be appreciated. At B6, bad management tells you you're lucky to have a job, then the gift themselves with 15,000,000 shares of stock each year, the same stock they ask you to buy through the employee purchase program, 8,000,000 shares a year. That's right, it's diluted 2:1 by managers, and these clowns on this site have nothing but good to say about them. What does that say about the clowns?

Your obviously quite miserable, go get laid or something

 

[fifty30retard]

Your obviously quite miserable, go get laid or something

That's funny, that's what folks say when they have zero insight and haven't studied this airline much. Dave Barger is a Frank Lorenzo protege, reared and raised under his management team's careful eye. Why do you think he manages just like Frank did?

They brought him to JetBlue in the beginning to replicate the New York Air "culture", and plop it on top of Kennedy, it is the same low cost discount employee model as New York Air, but instead of the 50% labor discount model, it's a 35% labor discount model. Seems to be 50% has pilots rioting but 35% is just right, illustrated by the recent ALPA vote, and it lives on at B6, where "none whatsoever", in reference to increased pilot cost from the ALPA no vote, was just said to analysts at the conference call this week. Don't believe this? That may be because you haven't investigated as much as you should. Read "Hard Landing" and then get back to me.

Go ahead and accept the job, I'll be the one laughing at you and your poor career choice, that is unless you finish training and then leave, like you should.

 

[BeachBummer]

Senior Mesa Capt (more than 13 years ) or Go to JB. My JB class date is next month

If you have to ask... stay.

 

[fifty30retard]

If you have to ask... stay.

Crew Care Plus = $6792.00 a year.

Stay where you are, unless you are independently wealthy and Daddy or Mommy can pay for your family's healthcare premium needs, not to mention copays, prescription, deductibles, etc.

 

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

In 5 years I'd rather be at jetblue then mesa. Mesa has no future, you can't say the same about JB, you can argue it however.

 

[fifty30retard]

In 5 years I'd rather be at jetblue then mesa. Mesa has no future, you can't say the same about JB, you can argue it however.

Oh there's a future at B6 alright, just not a good one, especially for you or any newhire, but it would definitely be better than Mesa, because the airplane is bigger so if you're willing to fly 'til your hair falls out and you look like garbage, because there's no work rules here, you'll make a decent amount of money.

You will have a retirement of meager proportion. United's, a bankruptcy contract, is 60% higher than B6, and Alaska's is over 100% higher than B6.

If you have a family, Crew Care Plus premiums just went to almost $7000 a year, throw in dental, and eyemed and it's $8880 a year. How's that for family coverage. A lot of professional pilots have families of their own and need better coverage, that's why it's central to any ALPA CBA. We don't have any union, just a student council advisory group called the PVC. It is powerless and meaningless.

This is what you're about to embrace, so now you'll be able to laugh at the Kumbaya session in OSC when you arrive. Then I'll get to laugh at you when you get on the line and tell you "I've got mine, go f*&% yourself", that's a common refrain here at jetBlue, a land of independent contractors with zero control of their contracts. How ironic is that?

 

[145 Lawndart]

It seems the biggest gripe is health INS the B6 pilots have. Is that all ? I will be commuting, I currently already am. Maybe I'll just flip a coin. Personally if I could be an airbus FO in MCO Making 100k+ after 5 years I'd take it over staying at Mesa

I think you just answered your own question. I was in your same situation about 5 years ago and even with the problems jetblue has I am glad I left.

 

[BeachBummer]

In 5 years I'd rather be at jetblue then mesa. Mesa has no future, you can't say the same about JB, you can argue it however.

... so why did you start this thread? What's your question?

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Senior Mesa Capt (more than 13 years ) or Go to JB. My JB class date is next month

First of all, it comes down to an educated guess. History speaks volumes. 10 to 15 years ago, United was a dream job for pilots. Who would have thought back then that Southwest would have an industry leading contract? JetBlue is not perfect, but there are many of us here who are working hard to overcome the imperfections.

My advice to you would be to think long term as to your career goals without being airline specific. As you look at those career goals, then start looking at the brand names. Go online and look at the financial stability and viability of each airline. Look at growth potential. Look at culture. Look at what you can bring to the table. What fits your idea of a career?

I would also suggest that if you come to JetBlue, bring a positive attitude keeping in mind what you desire for a long term career and apply that to this company. We need people who strive to make this a better place, instead of people willing to settle.

I believe JetBlue has great potential. We are growing. Our pay is competitive when you look at regular hourly and premium numbers, but lacks when you consider retirement, medical, trip, and duty rigs. We have zero defined and tested merger protection. I, along with at least 42% of this pilot group, believe we can have achieve better careers via a CBA. Instead of constantly bitching about what we don't have, I prefer to maintain a positive attitude, get involved, and work towards achieving that CBA. Care to help us out? Good luck!

 

[PsubS]

You need to see the "bigger picture" to make your decision.

JB will not have a significant number of retirements for about 10-15 years, just as a previous poster mentioned.

JB will be growing, albeit slowly, over the next few years. We've been told that the hiring numbers are about 300 for 11 and the same for 12. Some of these new hires are coming into place in anticipation of the new DOT fatigue rules, which means that (assuming no additional addition of aircraft or flight hours) the average monthly bid divisor will drop a bit OR the number of reserves will go up after the rules are put into place.

There are several medical plans to chose from...the most commonly used option costs just over $300 a month, plus the normal dental and eye coverage costs. Is this greater than SWA's cost? Sure. Is is comparable with other Legacy carrier's costs? Yup.

JB's hourly pay is (by most comparisons) at, or just below, industry average. But, the time above 78 hours is at time and a half, which causes most guys to max out their flying schedule. Now, to some that's blasphemy--what? Working more just to make your budget? I enjoy the opportunity to pick up open time and augment my bottom line; no one complains about SWA pilots being productive. Our pay model provides the chance to be productive and get rewarded in the process. Makes sense to me.

JB pilots have a great trip loss protections, and there are other changes to our recent scheduling manual that help--and some that hurt--our qualities of life. That sched manual is now being brought under the auspices of our contracts, and cannot be unilaterally changed. Do I believe it? We'll see...so far, I think this management group actually tries to make things work. Other management teams may not be so open to this approach.

Most of all, I enjoy coming to work. I enjoy the people I fly with. I even have a chance to interact with folks like Tard, who, despite having a good job with a company that makes money--and is likely to stay in business--decides that "all is bad."

There's room at JB, but you simply have to beware...there are plenty of things to "fix" here, and upgrades are going to be slow for quite a while. Otherwise, it's ok.

 

[DonVersteed]

Crew Care Plus = $6792.00 a year.

Stay where you are, unless you are independently wealthy and Daddy or Mommy can pay for your family's healthcare premium needs, not to mention copays, prescription, deductibles, etc.

Stop posting the medical plan that the average person does not subscribe to. Care Plus only makes sense for the guys with recurring personal or family medical bills. That is essentially the %100 coverage plan. Most guys have the Care 1 plan for a family which is about $310 a month with the new rates. A lot of people are still pissed about the ALPA thing and want the company to pay (through reputatiion or other non-sensical things by spreading this non-sense.) $310 bucks a month is not that good, however it is not as bad as the dude in the quote above would have you believe. That being said, the medical is far from perfect or even good. Hopefully it gets better. Before any ALPA, pissed off pu$$y posts something about how the pilot group could have had better ins. if they voted in ALPA----I voted for ALPA. All this crazy crap these folks are posting is validating most guys choice. The irrational statements by these folks on this and other chat forums (bluepilots)scared the people from voting for the union. Long story short-the occupy wall street types don't win support from a level headed person. They scare people away because your listening to a guy who is screaming about how he is getting robbed by the man when he's never had a job or doesn't even pay taxes. These pilots are essentially trying to post disinformation or just parts of stories to make it all sound bad. After the average person understands that they run from percieved radical union types.

It's not all bad, it's not all good, but readers are smart enough to know when people are talking out thier a$$. Stop this bull $hit and win guys/girls through verifiable logic and truths. Cue in the guy who is going to post how much better a CBA is.----Here's my answer "NO $HIT."

 

[B6Busdriver]

Stop posting the medical plan that the average person does not subscribe to. Care Plus only makes sense for the guys with recurring personal or family medical bills. That is essentially the %100 coverage plan. Most guys have the Care 1 plan for a family which is about $310 a month with the new rates. A lot of people are still pissed about the ALPA thing and want the company to pay (through reputatiion or other non-sensical things by spreading this non-sense.) $310 bucks a month is not that good, however it is not as bad as the dude in the quote above would have you believe. That being said, the medical is far from perfect or even good. Hopefully it gets better. Before any ALPA, pissed off pu$$y posts something about how the pilot group could have had better ins. if they voted in ALPA----I voted for ALPA. All this crazy crap these folks are posting is validating most guys choice. The irrational statements by these folks on this and other chat forums (bluepilots)scared the people from voting for the union. Long story short-the occupy wall street types don't win support from a level headed person. They scare people away because your listening to a guy who is screaming about how he is getting robbed by the man when he's never had a job or doesn't even pay taxes. These pilots are essentially trying to post disinformation or just parts of stories to make it all sound bad. After the average person understands that they run from percieved radical union types.

It's not all bad, it's not all good, but readers are smart enough to know when people are talking out thier a$$. Stop this bull $hit and win guys/girls through verifiable logic and truths. Cue in the guy who is going to post how much better a CBA is.----Here's my answer "NO $HIT."

The problem is, if you actually use the lower cost plan it seems you never stop paying. With a family of 4 it could get pricey very quick.

 

[J32driver]

I find it funny that people are actually trying to sell this place to newbies. Everything that Fifty30Retard is true. Not a falsehood spoken.

 

[Fins Up]

I find it funny that people are actually trying to sell this place to newbies. Everything that Fifty30Retard is true. Not a falsehood spoken.

Other than his work case scenario insurance rates, I don't think anyone is arguing with any facts he has presented. I think a lot of us are just struck by how he conveys his ideas. This isn't a matter of thin skin. Nothing he says really has much impact since all his posts are ridiculously, over-the-top angry. It all becomes white noise.

 

[DonVersteed]

The problem is, if you actually use the lower cost plan it seems you never stop paying. With a family of 4 it could get pricey very quick.

I have a family of 4 and it is no where near $6000. More like $4600 if history proves correct. And yes my wife son and daughter get sick a lot. The $4600 includes my premium and the co-pay as well as our % of what we owe after all else is said. My kids and wife get strep every year and they have multiple visits and that is about what we pay.

 

[fifty30retard]

Other than his work case scenario insurance rates, I don't think anyone is arguing with any facts he has presented. I think a lot of us are just struck by how he conveys his ideas. This isn't a matter of thin skin. Nothing he says really has much impact since all his posts are ridiculously, over-the-top angry. It all becomes white noise.

I'm not angry, I've got mine and I don't give one $hit about you, if you're too stupid or scared to stand up for yourself, and would rather vent at me than your own friendly hostile management team, go ahead, I don't care. The facts are the facts and selling this place as anything other than a Frank Lorenzo clone (Dave Barger) outfit is very dishonest. Read a book and learn something.

 

[fifty30retard]

Stop posting the medical plan that the average person does not subscribe to. Care Plus only makes sense for the guys with recurring personal or family medical bills. That is essentially the %100 coverage plan. Most guys have the Care 1 plan for a family which is about $310 a month with the new rates. A lot of people are still pissed about the ALPA thing and want the company to pay (through reputatiion or other non-sensical things by spreading this non-sense.) $310 bucks a month is not that good, however it is not as bad as the dude in the quote above would have you believe. That being said, the medical is far from perfect or even good. Hopefully it gets better. Before any ALPA, pissed off pu$$y posts something about how the pilot group could have had better ins. if they voted in ALPA----I voted for ALPA. All this crazy crap these folks are posting is validating most guys choice. The irrational statements by these folks on this and other chat forums (bluepilots)scared the people from voting for the union. Long story short-the occupy wall street types don't win support from a level headed person. They scare people away because your listening to a guy who is screaming about how he is getting robbed by the man when he's never had a job or doesn't even pay taxes. These pilots are essentially trying to post disinformation or just parts of stories to make it all sound bad. After the average person understands that they run from percieved radical union types.

It's not all bad, it's not all good, but readers are smart enough to know when people are talking out thier a$$. Stop this bull $hit and win guys/girls through verifiable logic and truths. Cue in the guy who is going to post how much better a CBA is.----Here's my answer "NO $HIT."

Look here, if you are a professional pilot, ALPA MECs negotiate for things befitting a professional, like cadillac medical plans, at low cost to pilots, because they deserve them, and they need them for growing families. A CBA dictating this, along with a self insured company, is permissible by the new Healthcare Law, and it should be done for the professionals generating the revenue, end of story. Get out of the weeds, you are not a crewmember, you are a pilot.

If expecting to be compensated as a professional means I'm a radical, even though all risk is on me, and I generate all revenue on my flights, well, paint me a radical, but I get to define idiot, and your rolling over for failed MBAs and bad lawyers advising them, is right on the mark.

 

[DonVersteed]

Look here, if you are a professional pilot, ALPA MECs negotiate for things befitting a professional, like cadillac medical plans, at low cost to pilots, because they deserve them, and they need them for growing families. A CBA dictating this, along with a self insured company, is permissible by the new Healthcare Law, and it should be done for the professionals generating the revenue, end of story. Get out of the weeds, you are not a crewmember, you are a pilot.

If expecting to be compensated as a professional means I'm a radical, even though all risk is on me, and I generate all revenue on my flights, well, paint me a radical, but I get to define idiot, and your rolling over for failed MBAs and bad lawyers advising them, is right on the mark.

Like I said, right on time..... You didn't even say anything contrary to what I was saying. Anytime someone posts what the facts are at Jetblue the crazy folks start posting how much better a CBA is. Like I said, "No $hit." My point is, that a non balanced approach when trying to scare everyone from applying at Jetblue is highlighting the fact that you're just pissed. You and I lost the ALPA thing. You're not winning support and you are validating the majority's choice. Stop trying to teach Jetblue a lesson with the "everything sucks at Jetblue posts." The reality is, folks realize that you have an agenda. Good luck with that dude..