MESA or JB

[Ski-N-Fly]

Senior Mesa Capt (more than 13 years ) or Go to JB. My JB class date is next month

First of all, it comes down to an educated guess. History speaks volumes. 10 to 15 years ago, United was a dream job for pilots. Who would have thought back then that Southwest would have an industry leading contract? JetBlue is not perfect, but there are many of us here who are working hard to overcome the imperfections.

My advice to you would be to think long term as to your career goals without being airline specific. As you look at those career goals, then start looking at the brand names. Go online and look at the financial stability and viability of each airline. Look at growth potential. Look at culture. Look at what you can bring to the table. What fits your idea of a career?

I would also suggest that if you come to JetBlue, bring a positive attitude keeping in mind what you desire for a long term career and apply that to this company. We need people who strive to make this a better place, instead of people willing to settle.

I believe JetBlue has great potential. We are growing. Our pay is competitive when you look at regular hourly and premium numbers, but lacks when you consider retirement, medical, trip, and duty rigs. We have zero defined and tested merger protection. I, along with at least 42% of this pilot group, believe we can have achieve better careers via a CBA. Instead of constantly bitching about what we don't have, I prefer to maintain a positive attitude, get involved, and work towards achieving that CBA. Care to help us out? Good luck!

 

[PsubS]

You need to see the "bigger picture" to make your decision.

JB will not have a significant number of retirements for about 10-15 years, just as a previous poster mentioned.

JB will be growing, albeit slowly, over the next few years. We've been told that the hiring numbers are about 300 for 11 and the same for 12. Some of these new hires are coming into place in anticipation of the new DOT fatigue rules, which means that (assuming no additional addition of aircraft or flight hours) the average monthly bid divisor will drop a bit OR the number of reserves will go up after the rules are put into place.

There are several medical plans to chose from...the most commonly used option costs just over $300 a month, plus the normal dental and eye coverage costs. Is this greater than SWA's cost? Sure. Is is comparable with other Legacy carrier's costs? Yup.

JB's hourly pay is (by most comparisons) at, or just below, industry average. But, the time above 78 hours is at time and a half, which causes most guys to max out their flying schedule. Now, to some that's blasphemy--what? Working more just to make your budget? I enjoy the opportunity to pick up open time and augment my bottom line; no one complains about SWA pilots being productive. Our pay model provides the chance to be productive and get rewarded in the process. Makes sense to me.

JB pilots have a great trip loss protections, and there are other changes to our recent scheduling manual that help--and some that hurt--our qualities of life. That sched manual is now being brought under the auspices of our contracts, and cannot be unilaterally changed. Do I believe it? We'll see...so far, I think this management group actually tries to make things work. Other management teams may not be so open to this approach.

Most of all, I enjoy coming to work. I enjoy the people I fly with. I even have a chance to interact with folks like Tard, who, despite having a good job with a company that makes money--and is likely to stay in business--decides that "all is bad."

There's room at JB, but you simply have to beware...there are plenty of things to "fix" here, and upgrades are going to be slow for quite a while. Otherwise, it's ok.

 

[DonVersteed]

Crew Care Plus = $6792.00 a year.

Stay where you are, unless you are independently wealthy and Daddy or Mommy can pay for your family's healthcare premium needs, not to mention copays, prescription, deductibles, etc.

Stop posting the medical plan that the average person does not subscribe to. Care Plus only makes sense for the guys with recurring personal or family medical bills. That is essentially the %100 coverage plan. Most guys have the Care 1 plan for a family which is about $310 a month with the new rates. A lot of people are still pissed about the ALPA thing and want the company to pay (through reputatiion or other non-sensical things by spreading this non-sense.) $310 bucks a month is not that good, however it is not as bad as the dude in the quote above would have you believe. That being said, the medical is far from perfect or even good. Hopefully it gets better. Before any ALPA, pissed off pu$$y posts something about how the pilot group could have had better ins. if they voted in ALPA----I voted for ALPA. All this crazy crap these folks are posting is validating most guys choice. The irrational statements by these folks on this and other chat forums (bluepilots)scared the people from voting for the union. Long story short-the occupy wall street types don't win support from a level headed person. They scare people away because your listening to a guy who is screaming about how he is getting robbed by the man when he's never had a job or doesn't even pay taxes. These pilots are essentially trying to post disinformation or just parts of stories to make it all sound bad. After the average person understands that they run from percieved radical union types.

It's not all bad, it's not all good, but readers are smart enough to know when people are talking out thier a$$. Stop this bull $hit and win guys/girls through verifiable logic and truths. Cue in the guy who is going to post how much better a CBA is.----Here's my answer "NO $HIT."

 

[B6Busdriver]

Stop posting the medical plan that the average person does not subscribe to. Care Plus only makes sense for the guys with recurring personal or family medical bills. That is essentially the %100 coverage plan. Most guys have the Care 1 plan for a family which is about $310 a month with the new rates. A lot of people are still pissed about the ALPA thing and want the company to pay (through reputatiion or other non-sensical things by spreading this non-sense.) $310 bucks a month is not that good, however it is not as bad as the dude in the quote above would have you believe. That being said, the medical is far from perfect or even good. Hopefully it gets better. Before any ALPA, pissed off pu$$y posts something about how the pilot group could have had better ins. if they voted in ALPA----I voted for ALPA. All this crazy crap these folks are posting is validating most guys choice. The irrational statements by these folks on this and other chat forums (bluepilots)scared the people from voting for the union. Long story short-the occupy wall street types don't win support from a level headed person. They scare people away because your listening to a guy who is screaming about how he is getting robbed by the man when he's never had a job or doesn't even pay taxes. These pilots are essentially trying to post disinformation or just parts of stories to make it all sound bad. After the average person understands that they run from percieved radical union types.

It's not all bad, it's not all good, but readers are smart enough to know when people are talking out thier a$$. Stop this bull $hit and win guys/girls through verifiable logic and truths. Cue in the guy who is going to post how much better a CBA is.----Here's my answer "NO $HIT."

The problem is, if you actually use the lower cost plan it seems you never stop paying. With a family of 4 it could get pricey very quick.

 

[J32driver]

I find it funny that people are actually trying to sell this place to newbies. Everything that Fifty30Retard is true. Not a falsehood spoken.

 

[Fins Up]

I find it funny that people are actually trying to sell this place to newbies. Everything that Fifty30Retard is true. Not a falsehood spoken.

Other than his work case scenario insurance rates, I don't think anyone is arguing with any facts he has presented. I think a lot of us are just struck by how he conveys his ideas. This isn't a matter of thin skin. Nothing he says really has much impact since all his posts are ridiculously, over-the-top angry. It all becomes white noise.

 

[DonVersteed]

The problem is, if you actually use the lower cost plan it seems you never stop paying. With a family of 4 it could get pricey very quick.

I have a family of 4 and it is no where near $6000. More like $4600 if history proves correct. And yes my wife son and daughter get sick a lot. The $4600 includes my premium and the co-pay as well as our % of what we owe after all else is said. My kids and wife get strep every year and they have multiple visits and that is about what we pay.

 

[fifty30retard]

Other than his work case scenario insurance rates, I don't think anyone is arguing with any facts he has presented. I think a lot of us are just struck by how he conveys his ideas. This isn't a matter of thin skin. Nothing he says really has much impact since all his posts are ridiculously, over-the-top angry. It all becomes white noise.

I'm not angry, I've got mine and I don't give one $hit about you, if you're too stupid or scared to stand up for yourself, and would rather vent at me than your own friendly hostile management team, go ahead, I don't care. The facts are the facts and selling this place as anything other than a Frank Lorenzo clone (Dave Barger) outfit is very dishonest. Read a book and learn something.

 

[fifty30retard]

Stop posting the medical plan that the average person does not subscribe to. Care Plus only makes sense for the guys with recurring personal or family medical bills. That is essentially the %100 coverage plan. Most guys have the Care 1 plan for a family which is about $310 a month with the new rates. A lot of people are still pissed about the ALPA thing and want the company to pay (through reputatiion or other non-sensical things by spreading this non-sense.) $310 bucks a month is not that good, however it is not as bad as the dude in the quote above would have you believe. That being said, the medical is far from perfect or even good. Hopefully it gets better. Before any ALPA, pissed off pu$$y posts something about how the pilot group could have had better ins. if they voted in ALPA----I voted for ALPA. All this crazy crap these folks are posting is validating most guys choice. The irrational statements by these folks on this and other chat forums (bluepilots)scared the people from voting for the union. Long story short-the occupy wall street types don't win support from a level headed person. They scare people away because your listening to a guy who is screaming about how he is getting robbed by the man when he's never had a job or doesn't even pay taxes. These pilots are essentially trying to post disinformation or just parts of stories to make it all sound bad. After the average person understands that they run from percieved radical union types.

It's not all bad, it's not all good, but readers are smart enough to know when people are talking out thier a$$. Stop this bull $hit and win guys/girls through verifiable logic and truths. Cue in the guy who is going to post how much better a CBA is.----Here's my answer "NO $HIT."

Look here, if you are a professional pilot, ALPA MECs negotiate for things befitting a professional, like cadillac medical plans, at low cost to pilots, because they deserve them, and they need them for growing families. A CBA dictating this, along with a self insured company, is permissible by the new Healthcare Law, and it should be done for the professionals generating the revenue, end of story. Get out of the weeds, you are not a crewmember, you are a pilot.

If expecting to be compensated as a professional means I'm a radical, even though all risk is on me, and I generate all revenue on my flights, well, paint me a radical, but I get to define idiot, and your rolling over for failed MBAs and bad lawyers advising them, is right on the mark.

 

[DonVersteed]

Look here, if you are a professional pilot, ALPA MECs negotiate for things befitting a professional, like cadillac medical plans, at low cost to pilots, because they deserve them, and they need them for growing families. A CBA dictating this, along with a self insured company, is permissible by the new Healthcare Law, and it should be done for the professionals generating the revenue, end of story. Get out of the weeds, you are not a crewmember, you are a pilot.

If expecting to be compensated as a professional means I'm a radical, even though all risk is on me, and I generate all revenue on my flights, well, paint me a radical, but I get to define idiot, and your rolling over for failed MBAs and bad lawyers advising them, is right on the mark.

Like I said, right on time..... You didn't even say anything contrary to what I was saying. Anytime someone posts what the facts are at Jetblue the crazy folks start posting how much better a CBA is. Like I said, "No $hit." My point is, that a non balanced approach when trying to scare everyone from applying at Jetblue is highlighting the fact that you're just pissed. You and I lost the ALPA thing. You're not winning support and you are validating the majority's choice. Stop trying to teach Jetblue a lesson with the "everything sucks at Jetblue posts." The reality is, folks realize that you have an agenda. Good luck with that dude..

 

[BlueandWhite]

Sounds like one big happy family at B6. At least you got that going for you.

 

[spitfire1500]

take the class...get the Airbus type and llook to move on from there if it's that bad..Mesa is a ticking time bomb that eventually will leave you with no job.

 

[fifty30retard]

Like I said, right on time..... You didn't even say anything contrary to what I was saying. Anytime someone posts what the facts are at Jetblue the crazy folks start posting how much better a CBA is. Like I said, "No $hit." My point is, that a non balanced approach when trying to scare everyone from applying at Jetblue is highlighting the fact that you're just pissed. You and I lost the ALPA thing. You're not winning support and you are validating the majority's choice. Stop trying to teach Jetblue a lesson with the "everything sucks at Jetblue posts." The reality is, folks realize that you have an agenda. Good luck with that dude..

This is not a good place to work, so stop putting cream on a turd and selling it as pastry. You work to the FARs with a poor retirement and very bad sub-regional medical, what exactly is good? A new hire has no chance of ever being a line holder on either airplane until hell freezes over. It is better for them to go somewhere where they have a bargaining agent negotiating for them and a share of the revenue they will generate. They will have nothing of the kind at jetblue.

 

[1678]

If the pr. person max/deduct. and fam. max/deduct. out of pocket stay the same, then; this is what you will be locking at on the Care 1 plan:

Premium: $154 *24 = $ 3696
Deduct Fam: $ 800 ($400 pp)
Max OOP Fam. $ 4000

Total Max OOP: $ 8496

 

[amcnd]

You never know were it will take you.. 10 years who knows what Jet Blue or any other airline will look like. Just ask the Airtran guys... What every you do, dont ever look back. Never let the "what if" haunt you..

 

[B727FA]

Always remember, "IF" didn't happen. I've taken some leaps of faith and all in all, it's worked out in the end b/c I made it work.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Senior Mesa Capt (more than 13 years ) or Go to JB. My JB class date is next month

The SKYW borg has stepped into your arena, they have their sights set firmly on all your flying, you really want to be a bug in their grill?

 

[CapnVegetto]

This is not a good place to work, so stop putting cream on a turd and selling it as pastry. You work to the FARs with a poor retirement and very bad sub-regional medical, what exactly is good? A new hire has no chance of ever being a line holder on either airplane until hell freezes over. It is better for them to go somewhere where they have a bargaining agent negotiating for them and a share of the revenue they will generate. They will have nothing of the kind at jetblue.

Ignore this jackoff. Here are the true facts.

9 month guys are holding airbus JFK lines now.

3 to 4 months to a line on the BOS 190.

Good pay.

He's right about the retirement and medical. I pay double what I paid at a regional for comparable coverage.

Retirement I could care less about. I take care of that myself through other means. The JB retirement is just a bonus.

You will make more money as a 3rd or 4th year Bus FO than a 10 year regional captain with a better schedule and better QOL. A lot of it depends on where you live. The one and only real gripe that I have about JB is that the bases suck big fat donkey balls. JFK, BOS, FLL, MCO, LGB. Basically 2 NE $hitholes, 1 FL $hithole, 1 FL tourist trap, and hippieland where the cost of living is astronomical. Essentially, I'd rather blow my brains out with an RPG than live in any of JB's bases, with the exception of MCO, which is of course by far the most senior base. I knew that coming in, though, and was prepared to deal with it. Long term plan is get to MCO and stay there.

The one thing that scares me about working here is the threat of a merger/acquisition. We have no real protection should that happen. If pretty much anybody buys us, we are going to get stapled. Personally, it will affect me much less because I am junior as hell, so I'll be at the bottom either way. Honestly, a merger would probably open up some non-$hitty bases for us, too, so that is a nice thing to placate worries with.

Don't listen to anybody that says you will never upgrade, never hold a line, etc. They are full of crap. Guys are upgrading now will less than 5 years. Will that hold up? Probably not. Realistically, I'm thinking 7 to 8 years to a first shot at left seat. There will be attrition. People will leave and go to bigger and better things. There is growth. It's slow and steady, but it's there. Upgrades will stagnate if there is a M/A, but that is to be expected.

Right seat isn't a bad deal. This job isn't a bad deal. There is room for improvement, but it's way better than any regional, by a longshot. Take your commute into account and make a decision. Best of luck.

 

[fifty30retard]

Ignore this jackoff. Here are the true facts.

9 month guys are holding airbus JFK lines now.

3 to 4 months to a line on the BOS 190.

Good pay.

He's right about the retirement and medical. I pay double what I paid at a regional for comparable coverage.

Retirement I could care less about. I take care of that myself through other means. The JB retirement is just a bonus.

You will make more money as a 3rd or 4th year Bus FO than a 10 year regional captain with a better schedule and better QOL. A lot of it depends on where you live. The one and only real gripe that I have about JB is that the bases suck big fat donkey balls. JFK, BOS, FLL, MCO, LGB. Basically 2 NE $hitholes, 1 FL $hithole, 1 FL tourist trap, and hippieland where the cost of living is astronomical. Essentially, I'd rather blow my brains out with an RPG than live in any of JB's bases, with the exception of MCO, which is of course by far the most senior base. I knew that coming in, though, and was prepared to deal with it. Long term plan is get to MCO and stay there.

The one thing that scares me about working here is the threat of a merger/acquisition. We have no real protection should that happen. If pretty much anybody buys us, we are going to get stapled. Personally, it will affect me much less because I am junior as hell, so I'll be at the bottom either way. Honestly, a merger would probably open up some non-$hitty bases for us, too, so that is a nice thing to placate worries with.

Don't listen to anybody that says you will never upgrade, never hold a line, etc. They are full of crap. Guys are upgrading now will less than 5 years. Will that hold up? Probably not. Realistically, I'm thinking 7 to 8 years to a first shot at left seat. There will be attrition. People will leave and go to bigger and better things. There is growth. It's slow and steady, but it's there. Upgrades will stagnate if there is a M/A, but that is to be expected.

Right seat isn't a bad deal. This job isn't a bad deal. There is room for improvement, but it's way better than any regional, by a longshot. Take your commute into account and make a decision. Best of luck.

I had a typo, I meant to say "line holding A320 captain", as in this will never be you. Take the current number of pilots and multiply by three, this will be the number required on property for you to be a line holding A320 Captain. That number is about 7000. It will never happen.

In the meantime, you will be stuck in the right seat at $100,000 with poor benefits and worse retirement. Get a job with a nice fractional and enjoy your job, this is not the place to be. Avoid it like the plague.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I had a typo, I meant to say "line holding A320 captain", as in this will never be you. Take the current number of pilots and multiply by three, this will be the number required on property for you to be a line holding A320 Captain. That number is about 7000. It will never happen.

In the meantime, you will be stuck in the right seat at $100,000 with poor benefits and worse retirement. Get a job with a nice fractional and enjoy your job, this is not the place to be. Avoid it like the plague.

This is of course, assuming zero retirements, zero growth, and zero attrition.

Nice try moron, but once again, the reality is far different from the picture you paint.