mesa...lets go for a ride

[AvroJockey]

BTW...Does anyone fly an aircraft that has an avionics suite that automatically corrects Mmo to protect for high speed buffet?

If it does, it would have to change the Mmo to variations in altitude, weight, and g loading. The only thing I've seen is changes to the Vmo to reflect a limiting Mmo.

 

[BoilerUP]

Can't speak for the Excel or the CRJ/ERJ, but at FL450 and mid-cruise weight (11.5k) the CJ2+ is at the 1.3G reference line when at the Mmo of .737.

I'd think as long as one is at or above that 1.3G reference on the buffet charts, the aircraft should be able to withstand a sudden bout of moderate turbulence without experiencing a mach-induced upset.

 

[CheeseDick]

what's mach trim do?

 

[Lynxman]

GJ tool? Ok deuche, that's why every pilot that has a commercial license that doesn't have a job is applying to GJ. Are they all tools? Get real clown.

Yup all tools!!

 

[DiverDriver]

Why? For stating a fact? *GASP* God forbid facts be posted on flightinfo!

Bottom line is that accidents in aviation are hardly associated with any one 'realm' of carriers: regionals, majors, cargo. They can, and have happened, at all 3 levels. Most recent now being the Fedex MD11 crash. Mesa had an Air Midwest B1900 go down, but that cannot be attributed to the pilots. The poor gal tried to do everything she could to save her plane... but an inproper elevator rigging by poor contract maintenance, and the general trend of Americans becoming fatter and fatter, sealed her fate. Other than that, Mesa has never lost a CRJ/ERJ in a fatality.

So why don't you back off, and give credit where it is due? I would happily fly in the back of a Mesa CRJ/ERJ anyday of the week.

Ok, just to debate you a little on the whole "fatal accident" metric for being a bad airline I ask you to read this NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20011030X02159&key=1

Now, it was from 6 years ago and I also recognize that Mesa operates thousands of safe flights since then. But you don't have to have a fatal accident to make you raise your eyebrow and wonder if others operate in the same manner.

And after saying that I will acknowledge that other airlines have also had such incidents that make you raise your eyebrow. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20071217X01939&key=1

 

[dooork]

Ok, just to debate you a little on the whole "fatal accident" metric for being a bad airline I ask you to read this NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20011030X02159&key=1

Now, it was from 6 years ago and I also recognize that Mesa operates thousands of safe flights since then. But you don't have to have a fatal accident to make you raise your eyebrow and wonder if others operate in the same manner.

And after saying that I will acknowledge that other airlines have also had such incidents that make you raise your eyebrow. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20071217X01939&key=1

Ridiculous. It is one thing to have a dummy do something like this....it is another to have a trend....thats what we are talking about.

 

[Dubya]

What's the real story about MESA? Their CLT base is very appealing and they are union.

PM if you like...It's very difficult to get the real story on here.

-

They suck.


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[AvroJockey]

what's mach trim do?

Automatically and gradually trims the tail-plane on transonic aircraft to adjust for the rearward change in center of pressure as a result of wing shocks at higher mach. Mach trim is more commonly found on swept-wing aircraft as they are more susceptible to rearward changes in CP because shockwaves start at the thicker wing root.

I think the 737 starts mach trimming at .615...someone correct me if my memory sucks.

It doesn't do anything for any abrupt shock stall and tuck though.

 

[AvroJockey]

Can't speak for the Excel or the CRJ/ERJ, but at FL450 and mid-cruise weight (11.5k) the CJ2+ is at the 1.3G reference line when at the Mmo of .737.

I'd think as long as one is at or above that 1.3G reference on the buffet charts, the aircraft should be able to withstand a sudden bout of moderate turbulence without experiencing a mach-induced upset.

I think you're right...1.3G chart is what I've used in the past, and I think it's pretty cool some avionics are starting to correct for this. The Excel doesn't, and at max weight (at takeoff), when at FL450 you can only go to .70 or .72 if I remember correctly (Mmo is .75).

 

[keri2000]

I've never flown the CRJ but every jet has buffet boundary charts which give you the low and high speed buffet boundary for weight, flight level, and g loading.

I would believe that the CRJ has a relatively large margin between high and low speed buffet at it max certified flight level (FL410, I believe) and weight, most transport category aircraft do. However, that doesn't mean you can go to .85 in all flight conditions. Anyone that flies a jet needs to pull out the AFM and take a look at these charts to get an idea what the general limits are, otherwise you're putting lives in danger.

Believe me, this is a real threat. We had a crew on the CE560XL with your mentality (beeper goes off at .75) and they were introduced to mach stall when they hit a little turbulence. Luckily no one was hurt.

BTW...every avionics suite that i've flown fails to accurately correct for high speed buffet boundary limits, so I wouldn't trust your beeper!

True. And at lower altitudes the hi speed buffet is almost always .85. At higher altitudes there isn't enough power to get close to that. Plus the 700 and I believe the 900 have an RVSM speed limit of .83 anyways.
Somehow I doubt the original poster was thumbing through their speed card to know if they where approaching any said buffet boundary so in the CRJ if it's not beeping at you their is a good chance you are not exceeding any.