mesa...lets go for a ride

[d.fitz]

When you feel the high altitude rolling motion and see airspeed close to max you do tend to get concerned

So, in an airplane you know nothing about, you "felt" a rolling motion and then noticed they were near Mmo and that led you to feel in danger?

I think there is a LARGE difference between a lear 35 based on a swiss fighter jet (which means minimal stability, for maximum maneuverability) and a modern day glass cockpit airliner designed to FAR part 23.

I'm not a fan of MESA as a company, but I am a fan of all my friends that are gracious enough to give me a ride... You should be too...

 

[stagger]

d.fitz

I never said I felt like I was in danger. Those are your words not mine. But I do know the feeling of high alt buffett. I have felt the buffett many times on purpose at high altitude in a previous job. In this case the f/o said to the capt. "What was that" and the capt said "just some chop". I very politely said it might have been something called mach buffett and thats when I pulled out an old flip chart of mine from my bag to show them what I was talking about. Simple as that

 

[DrewBlows]

d.fitz

I never said I felt like I was in danger. Those are your words not mine. But I do know the feeling of high alt buffett. I have felt the buffett many times on purpose at high altitude in a previous job. In this case the f/o said to the capt. "What was that" and the capt said "just some chop". I very politely said it might have been something called mach buffett and thats when I pulled out an old flip chart of mine from my bag to show them what I was talking about. Simple as that

What airplane, what altitude, and what speed. Perhaps if you provide details someone who has actually flown the airplane can verify your concern.

In my opinion it would be hard to notice a buffett with the high speed warning chirping in your ear. I'm certainly no expert in aerodynamics but the good people at Embraer and Bombardier are and I suspect they set limits at levels that won't cause a couple of over-exuberant pilots to soil the good name of their companies.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Stagger - can you provide some numbers? Altitude, Mach, Temp? What was the weather, where were they at? Just curious.

 

[viper548]

during certification the aircraft is required to fly at .07M above MMO. The CRJ is certified at .85, so it has been flown at .92, that does not make it OK to exceed any limitations. You just wont fall out of the sky if you momentarily exceed it.

 

[AvroJockey]

during certification the aircraft is required to fly at .07M above MMO. The CRJ is certified at .85, so it has been flown at .92, that does not make it OK to exceed any limitations. You just wont fall out of the sky if you momentarily exceed it.

Is this in smooth air though?

They design 1.3G Buffet boundary charts so there is margin in case you encounter unexpected turbulence.

The limit is not always Mmo (though it is for 95% of flights). You should be using 1.3G figures for some margin when you're high and heavy.

 

[AvroJockey]

I'm certainly no expert in aerodynamics but the good people at Embraer and Bombardier are and I suspect they set limits at levels that won't cause a couple of over-exuberant pilots to soil the good name of their companies.

Remember they're trying to sell airplanes too! When they make buffet boundary charts they assume pilots will use them.

 

[viper548]

Is this in smooth air though?

They design 1.3G Buffet boundary charts so there is margin in case you encounter unexpected turbulence.

The limit is not always Mmo (though it is for 95% of flights). You should be using 1.3G figures for some margin when you're high and heavy.

I don't know if it's done in smooth air but I would suspect so. Do any airlines use buffet boundary charts for the CRJ series? At skywest we don't.

 

[DrewBlows]

I don't know if it's done in smooth air but I would suspect so. Do any airlines use buffet boundary charts for the CRJ series? At skywest we don't.

You have some sort of chart that shows you the maximum altitude for a given weight. I think I read that you guys do some sort of fuel savings program, I'm guessing it gives you a maximum altitude?

 

[viper548]

You have some sort of chart that shows you the maximum altitude for a given weight. I think I read that you guys do some sort of fuel savings program, I'm guessing it gives you a maximum altitude?

We have a climb capability chart that gives us a maximum altitude for a given weight and temperature in with the speed cards

 

[DrewBlows]

We have a climb capability chart that gives us a maximum altitude for a given weight and temperature in with the speed cards

As long as you stay within that envelope you should be safe. At Comair the charts were fairly conservative, I'm guessing the same holds true at Skywest.