Mesa gone from U?????

[LearLove]

I pulled this off of the ALG pilots' email loop, posted by a reliable source but he wasn't sure:


"Just heard something from a friend at PSA. Supposedly U told MESA
that they will be terminating their contract with them. Steve Toothe
is trying to verify it now. Could just be one of those wild rumors.
Who knows."


Hang on Boyz its changin by the minute, and we thought Dave and Johnny O were pals.

 

[meanstreak]

I thought Dave Siegle and Jonathan Ornstein were pretty good buddies. This doesn't make sense, especially when Mesa owns more stock in US Airways than anyone else. If it is true I don't blame Airways for dropping Mesa, they are a poorly run company that barely gets the job done. I know several people that book flights with US Airways that specifically ask not to fly on ERJ's flown by Mesa just due to the high cancellation rates whether it's due to maintenance or no crews available.

 

[WileE]

This might be a good thing.

US Air making noise about this would probably be a good thing. Actually doing it on the other hand would probably be very bad for US Air itself and that certainly isn't something they need right now.

The reason it might be a good thing is that it might make that egomaniac Johnny O start behaving like an actual business man and not a spoiled three year old. The management at Mesa is absolutely terrible from the head down to the toes and they are rapidly driving what could be one of the strongest airlines in the industry right into the ground.

Johnny O might be a champion corporate raider, but his temper tantrums, poor decisions and running managment as his own cult of personality must rank him at the bottom of the barrel as far as actually managing a company goes. If the stockholders had any sense and if they have the ability (I don't know if Johnny O personally owns too much Mesa stock to allow it) they would put him out on the street and hire someone who knows how to run a profitable airline in the model of Southwest.

 

[414Flyer]

What is also interesting was Johnny Os little 3 year stint out of the country. Some of his stock dealings havent always been on the "up and up" apparently

 

[Bluestreak]

Does anybody actually think about this stuff before posting it ? I know of one former mainline station with 26 departures a day-13 of them Mesa/Air Midwest.Does anybody really believe Airways can lose this feed ? And replace it with what ? Dust off some of CC's Jetstreams ? How many times a day do you hear "Air shuttle 57XX.." ?

 

[chperplt]

Does anybody actually think about this stuff before posting it ? I know of one former mainline station with 26 departures a day-13 of them Mesa/Air Midwest.Does anybody really believe Airways can lose this feed ? And replace it with what ? Dust off some of CC's Jetstreams ? How many times a day do you hear "Air shuttle 57XX.." ?

Well, quite of few of Air Midwest routes in the east have been given to other carriers over the past few months. With the signing of Midway to the Express family it is quite possible that Mesa would get the boot.

In case you missed it..

http://www.usair.com/about/press/nw_02_0718b.htm

 

[Bluestreak]

Nope,didn't miss a thing-call 1-800-US-DAILY.Mesa operates how many RJ's for Airways-35 ?
Such capacity is not easily nor quickly replaced.Consider these facts:
1.Airways announced yesterday that losses for last quarter are up 1,000 % (!) over the same period last year.
2.The Midway deal is contigent on funding a few million for it.
3.U is in legal default-a Ch.11 filing either voluntary or involuntary wipes out an ATSB loan.
4.Air Midwest has been given almost all of CCAir's former routes.

 

[tintube]

"With the signing of Midway to the Express family it is quite logical that Mesa would get the boot"


Ehh.....Logical??......
U is looking to EXPAND rj operation not to reduce, if you have not noticed that earlier........

Mesa looses money with some of the Air Midwest flying, Mesa is trying to shift that flying into profitable ones. ( EAS routes etc.)

 

[chperplt]

Mesa looses money with some of the Air Midwest flying, Mesa is trying to shift that flying into profitable ones. ( EAS routes etc.)

If that's the case, why has Air Midwest pulled out of some EAS routes on the east coast?

Maybe the Mesa RJ cancellation rate is getting a little too high for US Airways, and with other jet operators coming on line, those routes can fly more economically elsewhere.

 

[tintube]

I do not know if the EAS routes that you are talking about ( on the east coast ) were profitable or not, or if some other company outbid Mesa.
I do know that ex last week Mesa was awarded several EAS routes.
Neither am I sure about Mesas cancellation % specially compared with other express carriers. Maybe you or someone else can give me some hard #?

Thanks in advance.

 

[canadflyau]

maybe they are hoping to replace them with Freedom..

 

[tintube]

"maybe they are hoping to replace them with Freedom.."


A year ago, I would have laughed about that, but not any longer..................

 

[Beantown]

ALPA Sues Mesa Air Group, Seeks Court Order for Good Faith Bargaining
PHOENIX, July 19 /PRNewswire/ -- The Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), filed suit on July 17 in the U.S. District Court for the District of Arizona against Mesa Airlines, Mesa Air Group, and Jonathan Ornstein, the CEO of Mesa Airlines and Mesa Air Group.

In the suit, ALPA asks the Court to compel the Mesa defendants to bargain in good faith as outlined by the Railway Labor Act (RLA), and cease all efforts to undermine the organizational rights of Mesa Airlines pilots. It also requests that the Court enjoin the Mesa defendants from operating Freedom Airlines, a non-union start-up carrier, which they have threatened to use to divert work from the Mesa Airlines pilots.

"The lack of good faith bargaining at Mesa and the continued use of whipsaw tactics between pilots within the Mesa Air Group system are indicative of Mesa Air Group's lack of interest in securing a labor agreement that meets the needs of the carrier's pilots," said ALPA President Duane Woerth.

This week's filing cites Mesa Airline's continued tactics to stall contract negotiations, as well as the Mesa defendants' efforts to secure certification for Freedom Airlines, and their use of intimidation and threats related to the transfer of work opportunities to the start-up airline, as a means of dictating pilot pay and working conditions. In a recent letter to Ornstein, Woerth stated, "You have made no secret that you are attempting to use Freedom to avoid ALPA pay rates and its bargaining goals in the present bargaining process with Mesa pilots."

Pilot contract negotiations are presently in mediation under the auspices of the National Mediation Board (NMB). In a recent victory for ALPA, the NMB announced on July 2, 2002, that Mesa Air Group's subsidiaries (Mesa Airlines, Inc., Air Midwest, Inc. and CCAir, Inc.) constitute a single transportation system, acknowledging what ALPA has alleged for some time -- that all labor relations for these wholly-owned subsidiaries of Mesa Air Group are managed and coordinated by Ornstein and Mesa Air Group.

The Air Line Pilots Association, International, represents 66,000 pilots at 43 airlines in the United States and Canada. Visit the ALPA Web site at http://www.alpa.org.

 

[Bluestreak]

Was that for us ?

"In a recent victory for ALPA, the NMB announced on July 2, 2002, that Mesa Air Group's subsidiaries (Mesa Airlines, Inc., Air Midwest, Inc. and CCAir, Inc.) constitute a single transportation system, acknowledging what ALPA has alleged for some time -- that all labor relations for these wholly-owned subsidiaries of Mesa Air Group are managed and coordinated by Ornstein and Mesa Air Group."

A little rewording and you get:

"In a recent victory for ALPA, the NMB announced on July 2, 2002, that US Airways Group's subsidiaries (Piedmont Airlines, Inc., PSA Airlines, Inc. and Allegheny Airlines, Inc.) constitute a single transportation system, acknowledging what ALPA has alleged for some time -- that all labor relations for these wholly-owned subsidiaries of US Airways Group are managed and coordinated by David Siegel and US Airways Group."

You could also insert Comair/ASA and Delta.

 

[aceshigh]

Right on Canadflyau

I can see it now. Mesa dropped as codeshare is a win win situation because Freedom can sign onto J4J while JO gets the necessary leverage to stick it to the Mesa guys during their negotiations a la CCAir. Then the surplus of jets that no longer fly those routes can be transferred to any number of other operating certificates, including Freedom, where they're operated even cheaper. The possiblities with this one could be pretty bad all the way around. God, I hope I'm wrong.

Aceshigh

 

[Vrefus]

Wrong-wrong Aces,

If memory serves me correct, J4Js only applies to ALPA carriers. Freedom ain't gonna cut it.

 

[aceshigh]

Fit is hitting the Shan!!

Vref, I hate to say it but I believe you're wrong. Chautauqua already voted down J4J and they are IBT not ALPA. Skywest was also approached about J4J, and they're non-union. Furthermore, I think, but am not sure that Colgan has been approached about J4J. Maybe, some Colgan folk could comment on that. Also, if MidAtlantic still happens, are they automatically ALPA or do they have to go through the normal motions of bringing a union on property? As for Freedom cutting it, if management can find a way, I think they will. I don't think I wanna be around when this fit hits the shan.

Aceshigh

 

[canadflyau]

sad but true

Aces, your facts about J4J are true.

MDA is only allowed to get cranking if it is ALPA from day 1. MDA will be the highest paid regional in the business... probably gonna have to keep 80%load factor to be profitable.

 

[chperplt]

Colgan has been approached on many occasions about J4J. Management is ready to jump on it if/when US Airways gives them the green light.

Many of the pilots, me included, do not want it. We however, have no say.

 

[aceshigh]

Hey Chperplt,

Isn't Colgan owned by a Virginia Senator? Being that U is a Virginia based company, I could the politicking, bootlicking, and kickbacking getting really wild on this whole deal, especially if Colgan were to sign on. The partners in this orgy just keep gettng better.

Aceshigh

 

[canadflyau]

If you are to be put on furlough to make 50% of the seats available to Mainline affected pilots who will get paid at the set capt rate to start, I think you will get to have say! Since when can they furlough the middle of the seniority roster... if this is the case, seniority numbers are pointless!!! If they aren't determing your pay, advancement to capt, or the order for furloughs, THEN WHAT ARE THEY GOOD FOR!! Soon they will be able to hire capts right off the street and pay them first year fo pay, b/c ALPA is essentially oking the demise of the seniority system. Is Colgan Air non-union? If you are unionized, every single airline by accepting J4J, or even wanting it should be screwing themselves at the next contract negotiations, b/c at the next negotiations the pay those "affected mainline pilots" will be the minimum acceptable starting pay! Why? b/c if they accept (or show that they want) the protocol, they are accepting/admitting the fact that they could have afforded to pay the old pilot group in the fashion where 50% of the pilots make $50/hr and they also only have the highest paid 50% of the original pilot group still on the property.. So these airlines better be careful what they wish for.

 

[tintube]

About Freedom AL.

Correct me if I am wrong, but J4J ( at the time ) only allows companies that are unionized.
U also do not allow ( at the time being ) co-share with an express operators of larger airplanes than 50 seater jets and I have not read about any changes about that in their new TA.
Both of these will disqualify Freedom AL that not even has a operating certificate, any airplanes or crew ( yet... )

Rumors like this ( Mesa to loose U-contract... wish-thinking from some parts I guess... ) surfaces frequently. Personally, my favorite is the one about Mesa is to by AWA ( or opposite ), that surfaces every 3-4mnd... Not a bad idea though.... or how about them buy Continental Express, Express One or Mesaba.....The list is long.

There has always been some friction between WO and the contract carriers and I prefere to look at the orign of the rumor before I get to exited.........

 

[LearLove]

look at post #1

Hey guys remember I posted this off of the Allegheny pilots' email loop. Its been to days and I havent seen anything to confirm or deny it.

 

[chperplt]

aceshigh

Yes, we're owned by a VA Senator.

 

[tintube]

Exactly. No one to confirm or deny it . That is why it is called a rumor. Bet someone had / has a great laugh about the result........

Anyway,
J.O's responce to the rumor:

"Let me assure you that is a very wild rumor with no validity whatsoever.
BTW, the contract is not concellable for a number of years."

 

[Beantown]

Learlove, JO's answer to your rumor, take it for what you want.
-Bean
---------------------------------------------

From: "Ornstein, Jonathan" <jonathan.ornstein@m...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:17 pm

"Let me assure you that is a very wild rumor with no validity whatsoever. BTW, the contract is not concellable for a number of years."

 

[STEVE CANYON]

J.O. 's modus operandi is to ignore you if you don't agree with his views. I hope for everybodies sake J.O. loses this one.

 

[STEVE CANYON]

Sorry, above reply is in reference to ALPA suing Mesa.

 

[B1900DFO]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that Duane Worthe refused to sign the LOA 81/J4J deal because there "are no second class pilots in Alpa." As for Mesa losing their contract we can only hope.