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Mesa/Go HI sleepy fallout = FAA BS

LearLove

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Mesa/Go HI sleepy fallout = FAA rest BS

http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080924/ap_on_re_us/sleeping_pilots

FAA suspends sleeping airline pilots

HONOLULU – Two pilots for Hawaii's Go airlines who slept through their flight's landing procedure were suspended for the careless and reckless operation of an aircraft, the Federal Aviation Administration said Tuesday.
The pilots, who have been fired by Go, completed their suspensions on Sept. 9, FAA spokesman Ian Gregor said. He did not know whether they are flying again with a different carrier.
Captain *&^&***** who was also cited for failing to maintain radio communications, had his license suspended for 60 days. First Officer *&^%$#@ 24, was suspended for 45 days.
Gregor said no action was taken against Go because it did nothing wrong and provided the pilots with a 15-hour break before their shift, nearly double what the FAA requires.
The National Transportation Safety Board had determined the two pilots fell asleep on the Feb. 13 flight from Honolulu to Hilo.
*&^$ was later diagnosed with a severe obstructive sleep apnea. It causes people to stop breathing repeatedly, preventing a restful night of sleep.
However, it was still unclear how both pilots fell asleep on the brief midmorning flight, which was carrying 40 passengers.
 
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N1VIBS

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Know nothing about the Hawaii area, but HNL to Hilo? How long is that, 15 to 20 minutes?? Even an old geezer like me (in my 50's) can stay awake that long!!!
 

Amish RakeFight

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How both guys fell asleep during such a SHORT leg is puzzling. If his sleep apnea is that intrusive, maybe he shouldn't have a medical. It almost sounds like narcolepsy, which I would imagine is medically disqualifying.

Anyway, how do you think this termination and suspension will bear on their future prospects for employment.

Anyone have similar tales to tell?
 

ground stop

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narcolepsy is when you fall asleep instantly, you're standing there and then lights out. sleep apnea is a disruption of sleep causing lack of quality rest.
 

Amish RakeFight

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narcolepsy is when you fall asleep instantly, you're standing there and then lights out. sleep apnea is a disruption of sleep causing lack of quality rest.

Thanks. I'm familiar with the differentiation. My point was that his sleep apnea symptoms seem to borderline on a narcoleptic condition. Sleep apnea shouldn't be an issue while you're awake (daytime) as much as it is while you're sleeping. Sleep apnea is an issue if you're sleeping due to airway constrictions where breathing ceases periodically for 10 seconds or more.

Sleep apnea is not related to the chronic quality of your sleep. It's a physiological conditon brought upon by congenital or acquired medical conditions related to your circulatory/respiratory system.

Speaking of sleep apnea, I knew of a girl whose mom went in for elective knee surgery who had run-of-the-mill sleep apnea. Long story short, the doctor/hospital staff overlooked this condition and she wasn't prepped for it, post-surgery. She passed away and a lawsuit insued.
 
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GINCHBLASTER

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Yeah those guys are done in the 121 world. Way too many guys out there that have no action taken against them.
 

PBRstreetgang

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Avi8tor2000

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How is that FAA BS?

They fell asleep with 40 people on board and could have continued straight out to sea until the low fuel warnings woke them up when it was too late. They did something wrong and they got punished. I don't care if its Mesa Airlines or my own airline, that's not BS, that's the way the world works.
 

rickair7777

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How is that FAA BS?

They fell asleep with 40 people on board and could have continued straight out to sea until the low fuel warnings woke them up when it was too late. They did something wrong and they got punished. I don't care if its Mesa Airlines or my own airline, that's not BS, that's the way the world works.

The low fuel alert on a CRJ is the low oil pressure triple-chime as the engines spool down.
 

Flyer1015

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Gregor said no action was taken against Go because it did nothing wrong and provided the pilots with a 15-hour break before their shift, nearly double what the FAA requires.

"It did nothing wrong"..... wtf? JO has done PLENTY wrong with the pilots of Mesa. I love how they say the 15 hr rest prior to flying was almost DOUBLE what the FAA requires. As if 8 hrs reduced rest is 'enough.' Such horse crap! If these pilots are going down, they should take Mesa's management down with them for allowing tough long grueling schedules and camping on airplanes (which, if I'm correct, was stopped only once that fact hit the media and spread like wildfire).
 

Soverytired

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1. This certainly won't further the cause of more sane FAA rest requirements. 15 hrs is plenty, unless there's some sort of flip/flop scheduling going on . . . not here, apparently.

2. The non-sleep APNEA pilot doesn't have a leg to stand on, and good riddance to him/her. There are many pilot errors I'd be willing to give a one time pass on (cuz we're all human and no one was hurt), but falling asleep on a 15 minute flight isn't one of them.

3. The sleep APNEA pilot case is more interesting. I wonder if he'll have grounds to get a job back at Mesa (i.e. fired for a unknown medical condition), if he'll get workers comp, or ever get a medical back?

It also seems curious that the FAA suspended the ticket of a guy with sleep apnea. Maybe they thought he should have self-diagnosed himself earlier and gone to the doctor?

My money, however, is on the APNEA pilot going cheap and using Mesa-ALPA legal counsel. In my humble OPINION, this is never your best option, particularly when you're in this kind of trouble.
 

Salukipilot4590

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narcolepsy is when you fall asleep instantly, you're standing there and then lights out. sleep apnea is a disruption of sleep causing lack of quality rest.

Totally agree...I was just diagnosed with sleep apnea due to my tonsils (They were F'kin HUGE! Like golf ball huge!) about 2 weeks ago. Had to have "emergency" surgery to get them out on the 11th and now feel like a completely different person.

I imagine the same for that guy or something along those lines. If you feel you arent getting quality sleep go see a Dr. about it...you might need to get fixed up!
 

Stifler's Mom

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3. The sleep APNEA pilot case is more interesting. I wonder if he'll have grounds to get a job back at Mesa (i.e. fired for a unknown medical condition), if he'll get workers comp, or ever get a medical back?

It also seems curious that the FAA suspended the ticket of a guy with sleep apnea. Maybe they thought he should have self-diagnosed himself earlier and gone to the doctor?

I'll tell you what. I bet there are many of us out there that have this condition and are totally unaware of it.

A major clue for anybody, is if they snore when they sleep. Snoring is your airway closing while you are breathing, and your body reacts by waking yourself up just enough to reopen the airway. (ie, you never get quality rest while you are asleep)




(They were F'kin HUGE! Like golf ball huge!)

That's what she said. (Sorry, couldn't have a completely serious response)
 

pdub20s

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I know the FO...When I was going through initial ground, he was staying in the same hotel as us ERJ guys. He use to go party and get slammed drunk the night before a in-doc or systems test(surprisingly he aced em) and we would have to drag him out of bed to get him to the hotel van. He almost got us into a fight at a bar one night cuz he was hitting on this guys chick. I am not surprised to read he was the FO. He had received a few talks from our union reps about his professionalism.... It finally caught up with him
 

Ratherbsurfing

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How is that FAA BS?

They fell asleep with 40 people on board and could have continued straight out to sea until the low fuel warnings woke them up when it was too late. They did something wrong and they got punished. I don't care if its Mesa Airlines or my own airline, that's not BS, that's the way the world works.

Amen. They screwed up, got disciplined, and have to go on living. Hopefully they take more responsibility for their actions than Avi8tor2000 evidently would. And they're only done in aviation if they give up.
 
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