Mesa FO's laptop goes missing...and it makes the news

[PCL_128]

Pretty sad that it's taking a non-union pilot (soverytired) to defend the union pilots at Mesa against attacks from other unionized pilots. Ever think that maybe you guys should show some support to your ALPA brothers instead of throwing them under the bus? Attacking MAG pilots will get you nowhere. Supporting them very well could get you somewhere.

 

[say again]

Attacking MAG pilots will get you nowhere. Supporting them very well could get you somewhere.

Supporting them got us nowhere. They did it to themselves and deserve what they get.

 

[PCL_128]

Supporting them got us nowhere. They did it to themselves and deserve what they get.

They did what? Secured the flying that was being outsourced to pseudo-scabs at Freedumb? Yeah, dumb move there.

 

[AWACoff]

PCL, you as a "pseudo-scab" should talk. Mesa has been the industry's public restroom for years. The pilot group always has an excuse for why yet another contract is undercutting everyone else. If the contract previous to Freedom had been done correctly, they wouldn't have had that problem. Place the blame where it belongs. The pilots have allowed Lorenzostein to do whatever he wants.

 

[say again]

The pilot group always has an excuse for why yet another contract is undercutting everyone else. If the contract previous to Freedom had been done correctly, they wouldn't have had that problem. Place the blame where it belongs. The pilots have allowed Lorenzostein to do whatever he wants.

My thoughts exactly!!! Thanks AWA.

 

[regionaltard]

They did what? Secured the flying that was being outsourced to pseudo-scabs at Freedumb? Yeah, dumb move there.

Freedom was Mesa's answer to the sacrifices made by the Comair pilots. 'Nuff said?

 

[PCL_128]

Freedom was Mesa's answer to the sacrifices made by the Comair pilots. 'Nuff said?

What?

 

[BEfly]

I guess this is a union thread now, what happened to making fun of the Mesa pukes?

 

[PCL_128]

I guess this is a union thread now, what happened to making fun of the Mesa pukes?

Shouldn't you be somewhere kissing some rich guy's ass?

 

[regionaltard]

What?

Comair threw down hard and won a landmark contract; Mesa caved on Freedom without so much as a whimper very shortly thereafter. Airline Labor issues probably weren't part of your high school curriculum, were they?

 

[PCL_128]

Comair threw down hard and won a landmark contract; Mesa caved on Freedom without so much as a whimper very shortly thereafter. Airline Labor issues probably weren't part of your high school curriculum, were they?

Comair wasn't facing the extinction of their seniority list because of an alter-ego outsourced operation. Not a valid comparison.

 

[dooork]

Comair threw down hard and won a landmark contract; Mesa caved on Freedom without so much as a whimper very shortly thereafter. Airline Labor issues probably weren't part of your high school curriculum, were they?

You ass wipes! You dont know sh#t about it. You think you do and you dont. Every time I ask about the CC Air pilots you just look stupid.If you dont know about them then STFU!

 

[Soverytired]

Freedom was Mesa's answer to the sacrifices made by the Comair pilots. 'Nuff said?

And let me just say in all sincerity, I was happy to pay my ALPA extra assessment when Comair pilots went on strike.

That said, however, don't you think the mere fact that Comair went on strike and darn near grounded the regional lift of Delta led to the later outsourcing of "their" flying? I don't think Delta ever wanted to be put in that position again, hence the eventual farming out of "their" flying.

I don't really know what the solution is. Ideally, you negotiate the best contract you can using the leverage you have, which at ALPA means a credible strike threat. Freedom threat or no, Mesa certainly chickened out in that regard. However, that same hard-bargaining also led to Comair flying being farmed out.

Tough nut to crack with all the regionals competing for the same contracts. It's not like real airlines that have to fly in-house.

 

[Soverytired]

You ass wipes! You dont know sh#t about it. You think you do and you dont. Every time I ask about the CC Air pilots you just look stupid.If you dont know about them then STFU!

Amen to that. What a cluster that whole mess was. Sold down the river by DW (one interpretation, I know), but thank goodness that was eventually a win for Mesa Alpa (of sorts) by getting them all on the seniority list.

 

[regionaltard]

Comair wasn't facing the extinction of their seniority list because of an alter-ego outsourced operation. Not a valid comparison.

Comparing a group of pilots that stood up and took Delta's best shot to one that got punked by J.O. is invalid? Maybe on an apples to oranges basis.

 

[Raoul Duke]

RegionalTard, your name is very appropriate, at least the last part of it. You make this comparison in a vacuum, and it is a weak argument. Mesa's scope permitted Freedom. When Duane Woreth stated publicly that no regional would fly a 90 seat aircraft he more or less brought about Freedom. Once it was created, Mesa pilots had to focus their efforts on getting scope. Making it more difficult was the CCAir group who initially took steps to decertify ALPA and then reversed course and signed a contract that ALPA (national) refused to sign. To wrap the whole thing up, get scope and capture all MAG flying, they signed the contract. Comair pilots went on strike only to give much of it up in bankruptcy. Mesa pilots did not force you to take concessions, your company's bankruptcy did. If you want to make these arguments at least support it with facts.

oh yea sorry I totally forgot . . . Mesa sucks

 

[regionaltard]

RegionalTard, your name is very appropriate, at least the last part of it. You make this comparison in a vacuum, and it is a weak argument. Mesa's scope permitted Freedom. When Duane Woreth stated publicly that no regional would fly a 90 seat aircraft he more or less brought about Freedom. Once it was created, Mesa pilots had to focus their efforts on getting scope. Making it more difficult was the CCAir group who initially took steps to decertify ALPA and then reversed course and signed a contract that ALPA (national) refused to sign. To wrap the whole thing up, get scope and capture all MAG flying, they signed the contract. Comair pilots went on strike only to give much of it up in bankruptcy. Mesa pilots did not force you to take concessions, your company's bankruptcy did. If you want to make these arguments at least support it with facts.

oh yea sorry I totally forgot . . . Mesa sucks

Sorry Charlie, not a Comair pilot, but I'd be damn proud if I had been. How far do you think Freedom would have gotten without the A-listers? Do you think that Duane Woerth's yapping was going to change that fact that those airplanes were going to be flown by someone? Did US Air's scope on Mesa expressly forbid the MAG from creating another entity staffed by Seniority List Pilots to do the Freedom flying? Are you so sure that things would have worked out as they did if the Mesa pilots had hung together and just told J.O. to pound sand instead of falling over themselves to be first in line at Freedom?

 

[Motorradfahrer]

Sorry Charlie, not a Comair pilot, but I'd be damn proud if I had been. How far do you think Freedom would have gotten without the A-listers? Do you think that Duane Woerth's yapping was going to change that fact that those airplanes were going to be flown by someone? Did US Air's scope on Mesa expressly forbid the MAG from creating another entity staffed by Seniority List Pilots to do the Freedom flying? Are you so sure that things would have worked out as they did if the Mesa pilots had hung together and just told J.O. to pound sand instead of falling over themselves to be first in line at Freedom?

Many of us did "hold the line" when it came to not going over to the original Freedom. It was the select few who, for their own selfish reasons and a $5000 sign-on bonus, chose to go over and screwed us all in the process. And you can thanks ALPA for, after it was all said and done, welcoming those A-Listers right back in the union without so much as a slap on the wrist. Since then, many have gone on to SWA, FedEx, UPS, UAL, DAL, JetBlue, just to name a few. I still remember ALPA preaching to us about how going over to Freedom would ruin our careers and how we needed to fight them at all costs. It just goes to show that ALPA is nothing more than a money making business these days. I'm not trying to take away from the ALPA of the past as I know many fought hard to get us some of the few protections we all take for granted as we do our jobs. I know many here like to say "Mesa Sucks" all the time and I, as well as most any other former or current Mesa/Freedom/Air Midwest pilot will agree with you whole-heartedly. All I am trying to say is try to have some idea of why things got the way they are today at Mesa before pointing the blame figure at ALL Mesa pilots. Ive been gone from there for almost 3 years now and still have nightmares of some of the crap they would pull on the crews on a daily basis. I, for one, relish in the idea of a company like Mesa going away forever but hate the idea of any pilots, except F8 A-Listers still on property, being pushed out of a job knowing that they too have bills to pay and mouths to feed like the rest of us. Sad times we are living in, good luck to all

 

[Raoul Duke]

Sorry Charlie, not a Comair pilot, but I'd be damn proud if I had been. How far do you think Freedom would have gotten without the A-listers? Do you think that Duane Woerth's yapping was going to change that fact that those airplanes were going to be flown by someone? Did US Air's scope on Mesa expressly forbid the MAG from creating another entity staffed by Seniority List Pilots to do the Freedom flying? Are you so sure that things would have worked out as they did if the Mesa pilots had hung together and just told J.O. to pound sand instead of falling over themselves to be first in line at Freedom?

Your post shows how little you actually know of this situation. The scope at Airways had nothing to do with it at all. The Freedom jets were to be flown solely at AWA (which had not restriction on size or regional aircraft). Also, Mesa's scope clause did not limit the formation of Freedom and also did not limit the transferring of all of Mesa's flying to Freedom. JO benefitted from DW saying they ALPA would not let regionals fly the 900. With that sound bite, Freedom was insurance against ALPA. Also, the then Mesa MEC repeatedly stated that Freedom would never get a 121 certificate. 9 months later it was issued (even MDA, Compass, Lynx and Compass could not get a certificate with aircraft on it as quickly). I again reiterate that there is no valid comparison between Comair and Mesa. It would be equally absurd for me to make some dumbass statement about Comair giving concessions in BK. Each pilot group had to react to the facts at hand and comparisons under different circumstances are meaningless.

 

[Soverytired]

In an era where no airline is safe, I find it incredible that any pilot, anywhere, would either hope for another carrier's demise or take joy in those that have gone under.

What was it the John Donne said?

"Any man's [airline's] death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind [airlines], and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."