Mesa eyeing 737-300s ?!?

[B1900DFO]

SWA +15%???? You're kidding aren't you. Why settle there when you could ask for DAL +15%.


Considering what your pilot group has settled for in the past I would think you might get Eithiopian Air +15%. But that's a big maybe. Atleast you guys will be getting some valuable pic narrowbody turbine time which will help you get nowhere because there will be nowhere left to go. This could be the final nail in the airline pilot career coffin.

I hope to god that Duanne grows a pair and puts his foot down on this one. Who would have ever thought anybody would be undercutting Jet Blue by 20%?

 

[ADG]

JO can always rehire those first Freedom Air pilots? I am sure they will do it. They would just have to wait until Mesa is in contract negotion talks. That way they have a better chance of getting a job.

ADG

 

[Beantown]

Besides they can barely land a freaking RJ, what makes you think they will be able to land a 737?

This might be the dumbest thing that I have read on this dumb board in a long time.

First, only pilots with good contracts can land an airplane? Come on man, you gotta do better then that.

Second, I fly daily with guys that have 737 types and almost to a man they say the 737 is much easer to fly and land then the CRJ200. -Bean

 

[juan2go]

nothing less that SWA +15%.

SWA -15% would be nice. I'm sure that a more realistic pay scale would be something comparable to Frontier or Air Tran.

Juan

 

[B1900DFO]

Beantown,
That's interesting. You fly daily with people who have actually landed a 737 enough times to know how it handles? I find that hard to believe. Are guys jumping ship from SWA, FRT, and AWA for all the advancement opportunities at mesa? Or maybe these guys have only flown a 737 simulator. In that case your statement doesn't hold much water. I think it is safe to say that simulators are nearly always easier to land and more forgiving than the real thing. As for mesa pilots barely being able to land an RJ, I agree that is a stretch. However, knowing how to talk on the radio, that's a different story...

 

[juan2go]

Excellent Post!

I find that the CRJ is much easier to land than the 737 (-2,-3,-5,-7). I have appx 9k hours in the 73 and 2.5 hours in row 4 of the CRJ.

Juan.

 

[Freight Dog]

But even worse, I'll bet if we won't play JO will find some outta work aviators with plenty of 737 time who will undercut even our F'd pay scale.

I thought scope and precluding JO from ever pulling a stunt like Freedom was why you literally sold out the rest of the regional pilot groups with your contract.

I wonder how many San Juaners with 300 hrs are willing to fly a 737 for $20/hr with 6th year FO making $30/hr.

 

[Beantown]

Beantown,
That's interesting. You fly daily with people who have actually landed a 737 enough times to know how it handles? I find that hard to believe. Are guys jumping ship from SWA, FRT, and AWA for all the advancement opportunities at mesa? Or maybe these guys have only flown a 737 simulator. In that case your statement doesn't hold much water. I think it is safe to say that simulators are nearly always easier to land and more forgiving than the real thing. As for mesa pilots barely being able to land an RJ, I agree that is a stretch. However, knowing how to talk on the radio, that's a different story...

19000DFO, The more you type the dumber you look. I am based in PHL on the CRJ. 1/2 the CA's I fly with are J4J from U. Almost all have 737 types and every one that I have flown with (13 guys) have some time in the 73. ALL OF THEM SAID THE 737 IS EASER TO FLY AND TO LAND! I don't care if you and your 1500 hrs and 1900 time believe me or not, it's true. I guess fools like you actually think that the bigger the plane the harder it is to fly. -Cape

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

For you Hugh, anything!

Sorry to interrupt the Mesa bash-fest!

Wooooohoooooooo!!!

 

[scouts out!]

BEANTOWN


Its funny, but for some reason everytime I have flown on a COEX or eagle RJ I have had a real nice flight, but when I am forced to fly on a mesa RJ I often wonder where the F*@& do they get these guys, really how hard is it to have a nice landing at least once a month. Look at the ROA incident, a mesa crew landed so hard they bent the airplane and left a 3' X 10' scrap on the bottom of the airplane from there landing. Then to top it off they let the plane fly out the next morning with unreported damage on it. You guys are a bunch of inexperienced blind idiots flying around in a RJ thinking your doing this industry a favor, and you all want to help it more by flying 737's. Stop sucking JO's D^$k and grab your balls and stand up for something in your life and prove the rest of the industrywrong and show them your not all a bunch of pansies.

 

[mesa rocks]

I wonder how many San Juaners with 300 hrs are willing to fly a 737 for $20/hr with 6th year FO making $30/hr.

not as many furloughed mainline pilots

 

[mesa rocks]

I fear the same crap happening this time as did with the freedom thing.

Ornstein's new threat will most likely be a potential spin off of the company. Once it is started with mesa assets. Can he? will he? who knows.

You can bet that it will probably scare our MEC and ALPA national enough to deal with Ornstein. (alpa want's control of those aircraft, not another non-union start up)

If spun off it would have no trouble finding pilots. (i know of a hundred or so who are ready and willing.)

 

[Sniper@YourFeet]

737's can be bought for 3 million. That is their cost advantage over a 21 million dollar RJ. With so many 737's hitting the market from Southwest and US Air I imagine lease rates are very, very, low.

Just like Airtran's first bunch of DC-9's from Delta.

I too wonder how Orenstein sees a profitable operation here. As Mike Boyd wrote 2 weeks ago re: Airtran

One airline found that shifting from almost paid-off DC-9s to B-717s provided an 8% to 9% net reduction in costs.

Clearly, the payscale of the pilots has something to do with this.

Which segues nicely into my little complaint/diatribe: all the Mesa guys who have posted on this thread seem to honestly want to not settle for industry-draggin' 73 rates (if they get them. Currently, they don't have a pay rate for them, as far as I could see when I perused their contract, but I'm sure Orenstein has a plan). Instead of you guys supporting them in their upcoming fight, you've decided to critique their landing quality. God help us if this kind of leadership and teamwork is the future of our industry.

Wait till the Mesa pilots agree to a payrate . . . if it's less than the ACA 'Bus rate (which was mistakenly called 'industry leading' on this regional board, thoughw e know better), then you guys can log a legit gripe. But why don't we all try to support them for now. Whether you like it or not, the Mesa pilots are gonna' either stop the downward slide and hold the line (I think "WN +15" is a joke, but, it'd be great if it happened), or they are gonna' reinforce the rates that US Air just agreed to for their EMB 170's at Midway.

As Patrick Henry said, ""United we stand, divided we fall. Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs."

Support the Mesa pilots in their fight, or they will fall again, and at your and my peril.

 

[767200]

BEANTOWN


Its funny, but for some reason everytime I have flown on a COEX or eagle RJ I have had a real nice flight, but when I am forced to fly on a mesa RJ I often wonder where the F*@& do they get these guys

You really feel safe with Coex?
Remember when Coex used to hire 300tt guys and insult people with more experience on their interviews???? John D. rings the bell?????That's worst than Mesa's San Juaners

On the other hand you are right on with Eagle. Always a pleasure.

 

[Cows Go Moo]

BEANTOWN


Its funny, but for some reason everytime I have flown on a COEX or eagle RJ I have had a real nice flight, but when I am forced to fly on a mesa RJ I often wonder where the F*@& do they get these guys, really how hard is it to have a nice landing at least once a month. Look at the ROA incident, a mesa crew landed so hard they bent the airplane and left a 3' X 10' scrap on the bottom of the airplane from there landing. Then to top it off they let the plane fly out the next morning with unreported damage on it. You guys are a bunch of inexperienced blind idiots flying around in a RJ thinking your doing this industry a favor, and you all want to help it more by flying 737's. Stop sucking JO's D^$k and grab your balls and stand up for something in your life and prove the rest of the industrywrong and show them your not all a bunch of pansies.

Okay. It's a deal. We'll learn how to land if you learn to lighten up and go to your happy place.

 

[767200]

Ahhhhhhh....another guy that didn't make the cut and holds a grudge. Sometimes quality is better than quantity, my man.

I don't know man, I never applied there. I didn't think I deserved the treatment that moron was giving other fellow pilots, insulting them on their interviews, so I really don't feel anything but pitty at the FORMER way of interviewing at Coex

Good luck to you

 

[islandhopper]

That monkey is more obsessive compulsive than anybody I have ever met. His dream is to create a southwest cost structure, he is nuts.

Supposedly the language in the new scope was prohibitive of Mesa assets being used for any purchase or startup or certificate any metal taking off and landing with mesa money would have had to be done with mesa pilots.

Its sort of worded like "JO can have as many certificates and startup as many airlines as he wants as long as he uses mesa pilots on the ALPA seniority list".

The pay rates (everybody here is so familiar with) that sucked so bad were only up to 90 seat airplanes. There is no language for aircraft over 90 seats. Now unless JO wants to rip out 4 or 5 rows and replace them with a gym or something he has to return to the bargaining table.

A new type would introduce new bargaining and as just certain as the pope is catholic, JO will try to make every excuse why the airline must get off the ground quicker than permissible with the pesky time consuming bargaining over wages but...

If I were in the MEC at Mesa I would be licking my chops as this is definately a way they can legally work to get pay back at the a$$ reaming they took when they were given the "ultimatum contract or watch freedom take their jobs not a deal".

I truly hope they make up for all the embarrasment caused last time. This is it mesa boys & girls. Time to put up or shut up. This is what the Mesa guys were waiting for. Dont let JO get you at his game of chess. He will make his move soon to distract you over there. I dont think he can furlough but you never know. Maybe he will finally dump Air Big mess and cause a commotion over something else to get his way with the 737's but remember its all a chess game with that psycho. Meet him at the gates!

And if he does try something like ripping out 4 or 5 rows of a 737 he is more nuts than I ever imagined. He has no idea how much the CFM engines cost to replace. it would only be a matter of time before he burns through so much cash none of his insider trading pump & dump scemes will save his a$$ then.

Unless he is finding CFM's dirt cheap now we may need to look into that ourselves out here.

I thought scope and precluding JO from ever pulling a stunt like Freedom was why you literally sold out the rest of the regional pilot groups with your contract.

I wonder how many San Juaners with 300 hrs are willing to fly a 737 for $20/hr with 6th year FO making $30/hr.

1st year Beech pay is more than 20/hr at Mesa. 2nd yr RJ pay is more than 30/hr too. As silly as mesa looks from our perspective, those guys are trying. Why bash the pilots over something close to 1/3rd of them were not even there to witness!

When Freedom was merged into Mesa there were 1300 pilots there, I hear the list is nudging its way close to or over 1800 souls on board over there by now. Maybe less than 100 of the new guys are San Juaners. San Juan at full steam makes under 100 pilots a year................

MESA GUYS.. The few guys like me around won't defend mesa pilots forever. Now is the chance to prove your commitment to this industry and take a stand. Be commited to shut the friggin place down this time. It won't be worth it for any of us if you dont.

And while we're on the subject, "Mesa Rocks" I dont know anybody at mesa that is really as proud of the place as you act. Get real.

Im done.

 

[nimtz]

Hey Mesa guys,

Like it has been said 'time to put up or shut-up.' If you guys get bent over by this one then I suggest you make a move to decertify ALPA on your property, because you're going to need the extra bucks to make up for the sh!tty pay checks. You know if you make a strong stand Johnny O is going to do something to circumvent your scope, that's management 101. You guys claim the whole reason you got so boned up the arse in pay/QOL was because you needed ironclad scope. I sure as sh!t hope you're right, but I have my doubts.

 

[B1900DFO]

Beantown,

I stand corrected. I didn't know that many jets for jobs guys actually took a job with mesa. I thought they had to go up and down the list several times and eventually give up the slots. I assumed you were talking about mesa guys who were trying to get hired by swa by getting a type.

But I still stand by my statement that you guys don't know how to talk on the radio and are a terrible drag on this industry. Your company and others like mesa are obviously the wave of the future and that is the very reason this career is no longer a great one.

 

[bob evans]

There is an effort at mesa to replace the current MEC which has proven so ineffective. That being said, the mesa pilot group now has leverage and we intend to use it. As a point of reference, just this week we voted down a concessionary letter of agreement which affects our instructors.

But yep, I agree with Nimitz, this will be the first good test of our scope. It's time to cross our fingers and hope that our MEC doesnt screw this up as badly as the situation they put us into immediately prior to our contract negotiations.