Mesa eyeing 737-300s ?!?

[mesa rocks]

I wonder how many San Juaners with 300 hrs are willing to fly a 737 for $20/hr with 6th year FO making $30/hr.

not as many furloughed mainline pilots

 

[mesa rocks]

I fear the same crap happening this time as did with the freedom thing.

Ornstein's new threat will most likely be a potential spin off of the company. Once it is started with mesa assets. Can he? will he? who knows.

You can bet that it will probably scare our MEC and ALPA national enough to deal with Ornstein. (alpa want's control of those aircraft, not another non-union start up)

If spun off it would have no trouble finding pilots. (i know of a hundred or so who are ready and willing.)

 

[Sniper@YourFeet]

737's can be bought for 3 million. That is their cost advantage over a 21 million dollar RJ. With so many 737's hitting the market from Southwest and US Air I imagine lease rates are very, very, low.

Just like Airtran's first bunch of DC-9's from Delta.

I too wonder how Orenstein sees a profitable operation here. As Mike Boyd wrote 2 weeks ago re: Airtran

One airline found that shifting from almost paid-off DC-9s to B-717s provided an 8% to 9% net reduction in costs.

Clearly, the payscale of the pilots has something to do with this.

Which segues nicely into my little complaint/diatribe: all the Mesa guys who have posted on this thread seem to honestly want to not settle for industry-draggin' 73 rates (if they get them. Currently, they don't have a pay rate for them, as far as I could see when I perused their contract, but I'm sure Orenstein has a plan). Instead of you guys supporting them in their upcoming fight, you've decided to critique their landing quality. God help us if this kind of leadership and teamwork is the future of our industry.

Wait till the Mesa pilots agree to a payrate . . . if it's less than the ACA 'Bus rate (which was mistakenly called 'industry leading' on this regional board, thoughw e know better), then you guys can log a legit gripe. But why don't we all try to support them for now. Whether you like it or not, the Mesa pilots are gonna' either stop the downward slide and hold the line (I think "WN +15" is a joke, but, it'd be great if it happened), or they are gonna' reinforce the rates that US Air just agreed to for their EMB 170's at Midway.

As Patrick Henry said, ""United we stand, divided we fall. Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs."

Support the Mesa pilots in their fight, or they will fall again, and at your and my peril.

 

[767200]

BEANTOWN


Its funny, but for some reason everytime I have flown on a COEX or eagle RJ I have had a real nice flight, but when I am forced to fly on a mesa RJ I often wonder where the F*@& do they get these guys

You really feel safe with Coex?
Remember when Coex used to hire 300tt guys and insult people with more experience on their interviews???? John D. rings the bell?????That's worst than Mesa's San Juaners

On the other hand you are right on with Eagle. Always a pleasure.

 

[Cows Go Moo]

BEANTOWN


Its funny, but for some reason everytime I have flown on a COEX or eagle RJ I have had a real nice flight, but when I am forced to fly on a mesa RJ I often wonder where the F*@& do they get these guys, really how hard is it to have a nice landing at least once a month. Look at the ROA incident, a mesa crew landed so hard they bent the airplane and left a 3' X 10' scrap on the bottom of the airplane from there landing. Then to top it off they let the plane fly out the next morning with unreported damage on it. You guys are a bunch of inexperienced blind idiots flying around in a RJ thinking your doing this industry a favor, and you all want to help it more by flying 737's. Stop sucking JO's D^$k and grab your balls and stand up for something in your life and prove the rest of the industrywrong and show them your not all a bunch of pansies.

Okay. It's a deal. We'll learn how to land if you learn to lighten up and go to your happy place.

 

[767200]

Ahhhhhhh....another guy that didn't make the cut and holds a grudge. Sometimes quality is better than quantity, my man.

I don't know man, I never applied there. I didn't think I deserved the treatment that moron was giving other fellow pilots, insulting them on their interviews, so I really don't feel anything but pitty at the FORMER way of interviewing at Coex

Good luck to you

 

[islandhopper]

That monkey is more obsessive compulsive than anybody I have ever met. His dream is to create a southwest cost structure, he is nuts.

Supposedly the language in the new scope was prohibitive of Mesa assets being used for any purchase or startup or certificate any metal taking off and landing with mesa money would have had to be done with mesa pilots.

Its sort of worded like "JO can have as many certificates and startup as many airlines as he wants as long as he uses mesa pilots on the ALPA seniority list".

The pay rates (everybody here is so familiar with) that sucked so bad were only up to 90 seat airplanes. There is no language for aircraft over 90 seats. Now unless JO wants to rip out 4 or 5 rows and replace them with a gym or something he has to return to the bargaining table.

A new type would introduce new bargaining and as just certain as the pope is catholic, JO will try to make every excuse why the airline must get off the ground quicker than permissible with the pesky time consuming bargaining over wages but...

If I were in the MEC at Mesa I would be licking my chops as this is definately a way they can legally work to get pay back at the a$$ reaming they took when they were given the "ultimatum contract or watch freedom take their jobs not a deal".

I truly hope they make up for all the embarrasment caused last time. This is it mesa boys & girls. Time to put up or shut up. This is what the Mesa guys were waiting for. Dont let JO get you at his game of chess. He will make his move soon to distract you over there. I dont think he can furlough but you never know. Maybe he will finally dump Air Big mess and cause a commotion over something else to get his way with the 737's but remember its all a chess game with that psycho. Meet him at the gates!

And if he does try something like ripping out 4 or 5 rows of a 737 he is more nuts than I ever imagined. He has no idea how much the CFM engines cost to replace. it would only be a matter of time before he burns through so much cash none of his insider trading pump & dump scemes will save his a$$ then.

Unless he is finding CFM's dirt cheap now we may need to look into that ourselves out here.

I thought scope and precluding JO from ever pulling a stunt like Freedom was why you literally sold out the rest of the regional pilot groups with your contract.

I wonder how many San Juaners with 300 hrs are willing to fly a 737 for $20/hr with 6th year FO making $30/hr.

1st year Beech pay is more than 20/hr at Mesa. 2nd yr RJ pay is more than 30/hr too. As silly as mesa looks from our perspective, those guys are trying. Why bash the pilots over something close to 1/3rd of them were not even there to witness!

When Freedom was merged into Mesa there were 1300 pilots there, I hear the list is nudging its way close to or over 1800 souls on board over there by now. Maybe less than 100 of the new guys are San Juaners. San Juan at full steam makes under 100 pilots a year................

MESA GUYS.. The few guys like me around won't defend mesa pilots forever. Now is the chance to prove your commitment to this industry and take a stand. Be commited to shut the friggin place down this time. It won't be worth it for any of us if you dont.

And while we're on the subject, "Mesa Rocks" I dont know anybody at mesa that is really as proud of the place as you act. Get real.

Im done.

 

[nimtz]

Hey Mesa guys,

Like it has been said 'time to put up or shut-up.' If you guys get bent over by this one then I suggest you make a move to decertify ALPA on your property, because you're going to need the extra bucks to make up for the sh!tty pay checks. You know if you make a strong stand Johnny O is going to do something to circumvent your scope, that's management 101. You guys claim the whole reason you got so boned up the arse in pay/QOL was because you needed ironclad scope. I sure as sh!t hope you're right, but I have my doubts.

 

[B1900DFO]

Beantown,

I stand corrected. I didn't know that many jets for jobs guys actually took a job with mesa. I thought they had to go up and down the list several times and eventually give up the slots. I assumed you were talking about mesa guys who were trying to get hired by swa by getting a type.

But I still stand by my statement that you guys don't know how to talk on the radio and are a terrible drag on this industry. Your company and others like mesa are obviously the wave of the future and that is the very reason this career is no longer a great one.

 

[bob evans]

There is an effort at mesa to replace the current MEC which has proven so ineffective. That being said, the mesa pilot group now has leverage and we intend to use it. As a point of reference, just this week we voted down a concessionary letter of agreement which affects our instructors.

But yep, I agree with Nimitz, this will be the first good test of our scope. It's time to cross our fingers and hope that our MEC doesnt screw this up as badly as the situation they put us into immediately prior to our contract negotiations.

 

[B1900DFO]

Question for mesa guys:

Lets say JO comes to your pilot group and says he has a deal lined up to buy 30 737's and compete on the east coast but it is contingent upon mesa pilots agreeing to Frontier rates -15%, bottom line. What do you honestly think your mec/pilot group would do.

 

[F70pilot]

this will be the first good test of our scope.

How will it test YOUR scope if pilots on Mesa's seniority list fly the 737s?

 

[crowbar]

Mesa will never raise the bar with their recruiter posting messages like this at ilsapproach.com, yeager1 is the original poster, she posted a month ago and said she was a 3rd year jet F/O and made $37,000. last year, she posted this today and says she's a four year captain and made 73,000. last year.


http://63.236.214.163/forum/index.cgi?read=70428&expand=1



YEAGER1
(66.56.97.242)

Just heard through a press relase that Mesa is going to acquire 737's. And looking at the emb 170 190 market. Good news. More jobs more flying. Send in your stuff.





Wrongway Feldman
(24.99.30.193)
In Response To:
↑ YEAGER1

Yeah, great news! You CFIs start saving your money. You'll need it when you take the pay cut to go to Mesa. Better talk to your parents about moving back in with them too.





Fly4ever
(65.100.27.221)
In Response To:
↑ Wrongway Feldman

Seriously Wrongway, have you looked at the pay? Mesa pay is about in-between of most Regionals with quicker upgrade times than most. I know Eagle and Horizon upgrades (last I checked) were about 6 years. I know Mesa is approx 3 years for the RJ and 1900 is 1500hrs w/ ATP. In the last few months they have been hiring Dash 8 Caps off the street.






Spades
(24.161.231.120)

Mesa sucks, I agree it is great step up from instructing but long term may not be all it seems to be cracked up to be.

The are becoming the main regional carrier for 2 legacy carriers who are shaky, at very best. What would happen if UAL or USAirways should ever go under?

Flame me if you wish...I have not and will not sell myself out to their management. I beleive we should all be paid properly and fairly for the responsibilty of being airline professionals.






Wrongway Feldman
(24.99.30.193)

In Response To:
↑ Fly4ever

I have access to all the ALPA payscales, so I know precisely where Mesa stands. Sure, my comment was hyperbole, but it highlights the fact that Mesa pilots are moving payscales in the wrong direction. The reason they are growing and hiring captains off the street (for $37.64/hr...you gonna raise a family on that???) is that they are a managements wet dream, offering themselves up for whatever JO says he'll pay them just so they can fly other stuff or upgrade. Therefore, they find themselves at the receiving end of contracts for carriers that care nothing about anything except the lowest bidder. They should focus more on improving their own pig sty and the regional industry as a whole rather than their TT and PIC for the sake of a job that won't be coming around for many years. When they agree to fly comparable equipment for 6 dollars less than other regionals' 2-6 year old contracts, it lowers the bar across the board. We're not talking major airline pay here. We're talking trying to eke out a living on regional pay.

Mesa's year one pay for FOs is comparable to most regionals, but it's the many years after that that they taper off drastically.

Anyway, thanks for your civility in your rebuttal.





JetMonkey
(67.0.120.226)

In Response To:
↑ Wrongway Feldman

J.O. is the "Hitler" of Airline CEO's. He would like nothing more than to get his hands in a piece of everybody's pie. His thirst for conquest drives him, and this latest news just reiterates it. Total regional domination over routes AND PILOT WAGES is his game and it scares the hell outta me! The Alpa MEC over there HAS GOT to grow some major "juevos" or else more CEO's like J.O. will join in on the continuing onslought-rape of our hard earned profession.

fly safe.
-JetMonkey






Ray
(68.156.42.193)

In Response To:
↑ JetMonkey

I agree. Ornstein hates pilots. That's why he throw peanuts at us. However, some of us still jump for the peanuts.

Raise the pilot bar--Raise the pilot pay

$30,000 is no where near enough money for the responsibility of a Part 121 Captain. Or any Captain in that matter. When the ##### hits the fan, who do you think the company will blame.






YEAGER1
(66.56.97.242)

All you guys are crazy. We are only a couple bucks different than all of the other regional carriers. Top pay on the 900 is 100$ plus an hour. I really dont know why everyone hates us so much, You know about 4 years ago I had a eagle interview in which I was hired. But elected to go with mesa because of phoenix. My friend who is an eagle captain showed me around ther crew room and all of the ops stuff in DFW. And I remember all of the pilots bitching and moaning about AE. That really stuck in my head. I carry alot of jumpseaters. And for the exception of FEDEX, AND UPS. Everyone complains about there job and the company. I love my job, and the company I work for. Im a four year jet cpt. And I made 73,000 last year. Im single, and have my own little place. Life is good. Now for the new hire F/O that commuts and has a family most jobs would suck. You have to adapt to changes in the industry. To be happy

 

[RegularPilotGuy]

Island Hopper is right on. I hope you Mesa pilots prove everyone wrong. This is your big opportunity. However, if you don't seize upon it, the last bit of good will from any other carrier in ALPA will be used up. Time for you guys to pony up, grow a pair and flat out win. Good luck.

 

[Dizel8]

Yeah, what he said: "Grow 'em big!"

 

[Tim47SIP]

One sided deal

I really dont think that Mesa guys will be able to do much of anything concerning industry wages. There will be no change to their pay scales with the addition of larger aircraft. O will just simply say "OK, forget it". You cant really expect mesa guys to demand changes to their current contract so that they can receive 73's. I think O is going to say "take it or leave it". If Mesa guys say "leave it", O just sets up another subsidiary with the Midway certificate bypassing Mesa's scope, and on he goes. Regardless of what happens, Mesa's original contract stays intact with the addition of a new pay scale for the 73.

Additionally, why isnt anyone demanding ALPA rescind Mid Atlantic's pay scale as it is far worse than Mesa's. Those are mainline guys that came up with those wages under the auspices of mainline ALPA. And you guys are worried about Mesa.

 

[islandhopper]

Re: One sided deal

I really dont think that Mesa guys will be able to do much of anything concerning industry wages. There will be no change to their pay scales with the addition of larger aircraft. O will just simply say "OK, forget it". You cant really expect mesa guys to demand changes to their current contract so that they can receive 73's. ... Mesa's original contract stays intact with the addition of a new pay scale for the 73.

Precicely! Their contract has a shelf life of what is it 7 years??? To go for changing that might be a bit much, you must choose your battles. But I think what everybody is concerned about is that they get payscales on the new equipment at least on the bar with other LCC's operating 737's or there will be a problem. Maybe bargaining for a LOA on some kind of retirement could come at the right time, but the rest of the mesa show must go on until the 7 year jubilee comes up. All this "what if" stuff on the internet really does nothing to help the MEC over there anyway. The only time talking will mean anything is in direct negotiations.

 

[bob evans]

It expires September 19 2007

 

[scouts out!]

The main issue here is mesa pilot group really needs to step up to the plate and stop the downward trend in the industry they have been causing...If you think you haven't caused this then speak with the other pilots whose flag you now fly, that has heard time and time again " Get your contracts DOWN to mesa's or we will lose flying to them. The mesa pilots can stand with the rest of the industry and fight for whats right or they can stand alone and continue to let JO have his daily rape sessions. You may love your job there but stop and figure out why a large percentage of pilots dislike your company and have harsh feeling about your pilot grop. You an change this industry.. it may be slow but you can start the upward trend. As for clayme and the PM, sorry you were affended but you have no clue and as far as me I call it how I see it and I don't always sugar coat for the faint at heart.

 

[climbhappy]

since you must or should wait til its amendable, then the bashers should wait ti that time comes.

However, when you look at the fo pay at places like chatauqua, pinnacle, and transtates and the capt pay, what's so different.

if it's within 10% it's in the ballpark. that's the norm. 20% less or more is out of the ballpark.

Anyone in corporate america will tell you what the ballpark is.

Scout,

You have yet to convince me through the presentation of facts that your Mesa bashing is justified and warranted.

I don't work there, but have friends that do, you and others have your whipping post, but look around! read the paper latley?

probably didn't notice the fares southwest willl be charging against US air when they come to philly. Try, phoenix for 298 versus US air at $1356.

That's 300 percent lower. NOw is that Mesa's fault too.

 

[drivea75]

Hey guys,

I have a couple questions about Mesa operating 73s:

Will Mesa operate these 300s under their own name or for a mainline carrier?

If they operate as a new LCC, won't they be biting the hands that feed them? They will just be jumping on the pile with the other carriers going after US Airways. I don't think United would be to happy with it either since they have ACA breaking off to compete with them out of IAD.

I also can't believe any MEC would give scope relief to let them operate for a another carrier.

Can anybody shed some light on this? Thanks !

 

[jetfueljunkey]

mesa's 737's

Well as a current mesa pilot, the rumors are rampant...The latest rumor is that we have purchased/leased 3 737-300's and are going to operate them out of PIT for United??? I think it is stupid as hell....I don't want to fly a 737 for MESA...I want to go to WN, UA, AA, DAL, anybody mainline to fly a boieng or a bus! I am tired of being the industry whore...the red-headed step child. I joined Mesa(air-midwest) 6 years ago with aspirations of going to a mainline job in 3-4 years......Well obviously that didn't happen so here I/we (mesa pilots) am/are. Most of us are in the same boat..wishing we were somewhere else...but we aren't...SO hopefully our MEC will grow a set and stop sending ouot SH*t for LOA's and payrates.... We better get industry AVG +5% or nothing......If this all does happen...like I said...all just a huge rumor as of now!

 

[jetfueljunkey]

Agreed 110%

I agree with you 110% but unfortunately some of our other pilots don't. Our MEC is up for re-election and they will(better be) voted out and new leadership in. It just depends upon our LEC reps who seem to be in the back pocket of the MEC. If our MEC get's re-elected by our LEC's then there will be a major recall of all lec reps then at the mec level aas well. I am not trying to pass the buck at all... The MEC just sent out a POS LOA for the instructors it was shot down hard! The pilots here seem to be waking up and smelling the coffee!!! No more easy street for our MEC and Company.....

 

[islandhopper]

The rumors I been reading on www.mesalounge.com detail the recent "cleansing" of the Freedom certificate, putting all the 700/900 CRJ's back on Mesa certificate was to get ready for Freedom #2 to start up with 737's. This would supposedly circumvent the scope of Mesa's codeshare "partners". And I am sure when the MES MEC stands firm on $150/hr for their Captains JO will threaten to spin it off to new owners. The whole thing is like a broken record with those imbiciles. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and expecting different results?

One thing I came to realize was just a few months ago JO was bashing ACA for their plan to go at it alone. Now it's suddenly a great idea?

I think the entire thing is a distraction and a waste of everybodys time worrying about it. JO is just trying to pump and dump stock prices. Its is his SOP. Remember the Cincinnati thing they were going to startup when Comair was on strike? ACA. I could think of a few others but I have a sudden case of nausea. I got to go hurl.

Hey guys,

I have a couple questions about Mesa operating 73s:

Will Mesa operate these 300s under their own name or for a mainline carrier?

If they operate as a new LCC, won't they be biting the hands that feed them? I also can't believe any MEC would give scope relief to let them operate for a another carrier.

Can anybody shed some light on this? Thanks !

 

[F70pilot]

Then again maybe JO is going to be the starting point for project ROAM out of PIT.

 

[jetfueljunkey]

Hurling 2

as a mesa pilot i have come to not believe anything our union says or mgmt says untill it actually happens....Hell our own MEC said that freedom would never get airborne! I agree that JO is just trying to work the stock prices so he can buy yet another motorcycle!

 

[bob evans]

I dont want to, but if the current MEC gets re-elected, I will be heavily involved with the recall effort.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

In the majors section there is a AWA thread that speaks to this. ONe poster said the Mesa ALREADY has a 737 on their property! He said they plan to start flying in Jul, as the poster above said.

CLiff
DTW

 

[crowbar]

Cliff,

Who is that in your avatar??

 

[juan2go]

It's Monica B. Come on, everyone knows her!?

Juan