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Mesa eyeing 737-300s ?!?
- Thread starter hawkerflyer
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Mesa will never raise the bar with their recruiter posting messages like this at ilsapproach.com, yeager1 is the original poster, she posted a month ago and said she was a 3rd year jet F/O and made $37,000. last year, she posted this today and says she's a four year captain and made 73,000. last year.
http://63.236.214.163/forum/index.cgi?read=70428&expand=1
YEAGER1
(66.56.97.242)
Just heard through a press relase that Mesa is going to acquire 737's. And looking at the emb 170 190 market. Good news. More jobs more flying. Send in your stuff.
Wrongway Feldman
(24.99.30.193)
In Response To:
↑ YEAGER1
Yeah, great news! You CFIs start saving your money. You'll need it when you take the pay cut to go to Mesa. Better talk to your parents about moving back in with them too.
Fly4ever
(65.100.27.221)
In Response To:
↑ Wrongway Feldman
Seriously Wrongway, have you looked at the pay? Mesa pay is about in-between of most Regionals with quicker upgrade times than most. I know Eagle and Horizon upgrades (last I checked) were about 6 years. I know Mesa is approx 3 years for the RJ and 1900 is 1500hrs w/ ATP. In the last few months they have been hiring Dash 8 Caps off the street.
Spades
(24.161.231.120)
Mesa sucks, I agree it is great step up from instructing but long term may not be all it seems to be cracked up to be.
The are becoming the main regional carrier for 2 legacy carriers who are shaky, at very best. What would happen if UAL or USAirways should ever go under?
Flame me if you wish...I have not and will not sell myself out to their management. I beleive we should all be paid properly and fairly for the responsibilty of being airline professionals.
Wrongway Feldman
(24.99.30.193)
In Response To:
↑ Fly4ever
I have access to all the ALPA payscales, so I know precisely where Mesa stands. Sure, my comment was hyperbole, but it highlights the fact that Mesa pilots are moving payscales in the wrong direction. The reason they are growing and hiring captains off the street (for $37.64/hr...you gonna raise a family on that???) is that they are a managements wet dream, offering themselves up for whatever JO says he'll pay them just so they can fly other stuff or upgrade. Therefore, they find themselves at the receiving end of contracts for carriers that care nothing about anything except the lowest bidder. They should focus more on improving their own pig sty and the regional industry as a whole rather than their TT and PIC for the sake of a job that won't be coming around for many years. When they agree to fly comparable equipment for 6 dollars less than other regionals' 2-6 year old contracts, it lowers the bar across the board. We're not talking major airline pay here. We're talking trying to eke out a living on regional pay.
Mesa's year one pay for FOs is comparable to most regionals, but it's the many years after that that they taper off drastically.
Anyway, thanks for your civility in your rebuttal.
JetMonkey
(67.0.120.226)
In Response To:
↑ Wrongway Feldman
J.O. is the "Hitler" of Airline CEO's. He would like nothing more than to get his hands in a piece of everybody's pie. His thirst for conquest drives him, and this latest news just reiterates it. Total regional domination over routes AND PILOT WAGES is his game and it scares the hell outta me! The Alpa MEC over there HAS GOT to grow some major "juevos" or else more CEO's like J.O. will join in on the continuing onslought-rape of our hard earned profession.
fly safe.
-JetMonkey
Ray
(68.156.42.193)
In Response To:
↑ JetMonkey
I agree. Ornstein hates pilots. That's why he throw peanuts at us. However, some of us still jump for the peanuts.
Raise the pilot bar--Raise the pilot pay
$30,000 is no where near enough money for the responsibility of a Part 121 Captain. Or any Captain in that matter. When the ##### hits the fan, who do you think the company will blame.
YEAGER1
(66.56.97.242)
All you guys are crazy. We are only a couple bucks different than all of the other regional carriers. Top pay on the 900 is 100$ plus an hour. I really dont know why everyone hates us so much, You know about 4 years ago I had a eagle interview in which I was hired. But elected to go with mesa because of phoenix. My friend who is an eagle captain showed me around ther crew room and all of the ops stuff in DFW. And I remember all of the pilots bitching and moaning about AE. That really stuck in my head. I carry alot of jumpseaters. And for the exception of FEDEX, AND UPS. Everyone complains about there job and the company. I love my job, and the company I work for. Im a four year jet cpt. And I made 73,000 last year. Im single, and have my own little place. Life is good. Now for the new hire F/O that commuts and has a family most jobs would suck. You have to adapt to changes in the industry. To be happy
http://63.236.214.163/forum/index.cgi?read=70428&expand=1
YEAGER1
(66.56.97.242)
Just heard through a press relase that Mesa is going to acquire 737's. And looking at the emb 170 190 market. Good news. More jobs more flying. Send in your stuff.
Wrongway Feldman
(24.99.30.193)
In Response To:
↑ YEAGER1
Yeah, great news! You CFIs start saving your money. You'll need it when you take the pay cut to go to Mesa. Better talk to your parents about moving back in with them too.
Fly4ever
(65.100.27.221)
In Response To:
↑ Wrongway Feldman
Seriously Wrongway, have you looked at the pay? Mesa pay is about in-between of most Regionals with quicker upgrade times than most. I know Eagle and Horizon upgrades (last I checked) were about 6 years. I know Mesa is approx 3 years for the RJ and 1900 is 1500hrs w/ ATP. In the last few months they have been hiring Dash 8 Caps off the street.
Spades
(24.161.231.120)
Mesa sucks, I agree it is great step up from instructing but long term may not be all it seems to be cracked up to be.
The are becoming the main regional carrier for 2 legacy carriers who are shaky, at very best. What would happen if UAL or USAirways should ever go under?
Flame me if you wish...I have not and will not sell myself out to their management. I beleive we should all be paid properly and fairly for the responsibilty of being airline professionals.
Wrongway Feldman
(24.99.30.193)
In Response To:
↑ Fly4ever
I have access to all the ALPA payscales, so I know precisely where Mesa stands. Sure, my comment was hyperbole, but it highlights the fact that Mesa pilots are moving payscales in the wrong direction. The reason they are growing and hiring captains off the street (for $37.64/hr...you gonna raise a family on that???) is that they are a managements wet dream, offering themselves up for whatever JO says he'll pay them just so they can fly other stuff or upgrade. Therefore, they find themselves at the receiving end of contracts for carriers that care nothing about anything except the lowest bidder. They should focus more on improving their own pig sty and the regional industry as a whole rather than their TT and PIC for the sake of a job that won't be coming around for many years. When they agree to fly comparable equipment for 6 dollars less than other regionals' 2-6 year old contracts, it lowers the bar across the board. We're not talking major airline pay here. We're talking trying to eke out a living on regional pay.
Mesa's year one pay for FOs is comparable to most regionals, but it's the many years after that that they taper off drastically.
Anyway, thanks for your civility in your rebuttal.
JetMonkey
(67.0.120.226)
In Response To:
↑ Wrongway Feldman
J.O. is the "Hitler" of Airline CEO's. He would like nothing more than to get his hands in a piece of everybody's pie. His thirst for conquest drives him, and this latest news just reiterates it. Total regional domination over routes AND PILOT WAGES is his game and it scares the hell outta me! The Alpa MEC over there HAS GOT to grow some major "juevos" or else more CEO's like J.O. will join in on the continuing onslought-rape of our hard earned profession.
fly safe.
-JetMonkey
Ray
(68.156.42.193)
In Response To:
↑ JetMonkey
I agree. Ornstein hates pilots. That's why he throw peanuts at us. However, some of us still jump for the peanuts.
Raise the pilot bar--Raise the pilot pay
$30,000 is no where near enough money for the responsibility of a Part 121 Captain. Or any Captain in that matter. When the ##### hits the fan, who do you think the company will blame.
YEAGER1
(66.56.97.242)
All you guys are crazy. We are only a couple bucks different than all of the other regional carriers. Top pay on the 900 is 100$ plus an hour. I really dont know why everyone hates us so much, You know about 4 years ago I had a eagle interview in which I was hired. But elected to go with mesa because of phoenix. My friend who is an eagle captain showed me around ther crew room and all of the ops stuff in DFW. And I remember all of the pilots bitching and moaning about AE. That really stuck in my head. I carry alot of jumpseaters. And for the exception of FEDEX, AND UPS. Everyone complains about there job and the company. I love my job, and the company I work for. Im a four year jet cpt. And I made 73,000 last year. Im single, and have my own little place. Life is good. Now for the new hire F/O that commuts and has a family most jobs would suck. You have to adapt to changes in the industry. To be happy
RegularPilotGuy
Member
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2003
- Posts
- 7
Tim47SIP
Serving for the USofA
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,157
One sided deal
I really dont think that Mesa guys will be able to do much of anything concerning industry wages. There will be no change to their pay scales with the addition of larger aircraft. O will just simply say "OK, forget it". You cant really expect mesa guys to demand changes to their current contract so that they can receive 73's. I think O is going to say "take it or leave it". If Mesa guys say "leave it", O just sets up another subsidiary with the Midway certificate bypassing Mesa's scope, and on he goes. Regardless of what happens, Mesa's original contract stays intact with the addition of a new pay scale for the 73.
Additionally, why isnt anyone demanding ALPA rescind Mid Atlantic's pay scale as it is far worse than Mesa's. Those are mainline guys that came up with those wages under the auspices of mainline ALPA. And you guys are worried about Mesa.
I really dont think that Mesa guys will be able to do much of anything concerning industry wages. There will be no change to their pay scales with the addition of larger aircraft. O will just simply say "OK, forget it". You cant really expect mesa guys to demand changes to their current contract so that they can receive 73's. I think O is going to say "take it or leave it". If Mesa guys say "leave it", O just sets up another subsidiary with the Midway certificate bypassing Mesa's scope, and on he goes. Regardless of what happens, Mesa's original contract stays intact with the addition of a new pay scale for the 73.
Additionally, why isnt anyone demanding ALPA rescind Mid Atlantic's pay scale as it is far worse than Mesa's. Those are mainline guys that came up with those wages under the auspices of mainline ALPA. And you guys are worried about Mesa.
islandhopper
Clone War veteran
- Joined
- May 9, 2003
- Posts
- 718
Re: One sided deal
Precicely! Their contract has a shelf life of what is it 7 years??? To go for changing that might be a bit much, you must choose your battles. But I think what everybody is concerned about is that they get payscales on the new equipment at least on the bar with other LCC's operating 737's or there will be a problem. Maybe bargaining for a LOA on some kind of retirement could come at the right time, but the rest of the mesa show must go on until the 7 year jubilee comes up. All this "what if" stuff on the internet really does nothing to help the MEC over there anyway. The only time talking will mean anything is in direct negotiations.
Tim47SIP said:
Precicely! Their contract has a shelf life of what is it 7 years??? To go for changing that might be a bit much, you must choose your battles. But I think what everybody is concerned about is that they get payscales on the new equipment at least on the bar with other LCC's operating 737's or there will be a problem. Maybe bargaining for a LOA on some kind of retirement could come at the right time, but the rest of the mesa show must go on until the 7 year jubilee comes up. All this "what if" stuff on the internet really does nothing to help the MEC over there anyway. The only time talking will mean anything is in direct negotiations.
scouts out!
Active member
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2001
- Posts
- 38
The main issue here is mesa pilot group really needs to step up to the plate and stop the downward trend in the industry they have been causing...If you think you haven't caused this then speak with the other pilots whose flag you now fly, that has heard time and time again " Get your contracts DOWN to mesa's or we will lose flying to them. The mesa pilots can stand with the rest of the industry and fight for whats right or they can stand alone and continue to let JO have his daily rape sessions. You may love your job there but stop and figure out why a large percentage of pilots dislike your company and have harsh feeling about your pilot grop. You an change this industry.. it may be slow but you can start the upward trend. As for clayme and the PM, sorry you were affended but you have no clue and as far as me I call it how I see it and I don't always sugar coat for the faint at heart.
climbhappy
ex pat
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
- Posts
- 2,159
since you must or should wait til its amendable, then the bashers should wait ti that time comes.
However, when you look at the fo pay at places like chatauqua, pinnacle, and transtates and the capt pay, what's so different.
if it's within 10% it's in the ballpark. that's the norm. 20% less or more is out of the ballpark.
Anyone in corporate america will tell you what the ballpark is.
Scout,
You have yet to convince me through the presentation of facts that your Mesa bashing is justified and warranted.
I don't work there, but have friends that do, you and others have your whipping post, but look around! read the paper latley?
probably didn't notice the fares southwest willl be charging against US air when they come to philly. Try, phoenix for 298 versus US air at $1356.
That's 300 percent lower. NOw is that Mesa's fault too.
However, when you look at the fo pay at places like chatauqua, pinnacle, and transtates and the capt pay, what's so different.
if it's within 10% it's in the ballpark. that's the norm. 20% less or more is out of the ballpark.
Anyone in corporate america will tell you what the ballpark is.
Scout,
You have yet to convince me through the presentation of facts that your Mesa bashing is justified and warranted.
I don't work there, but have friends that do, you and others have your whipping post, but look around! read the paper latley?
probably didn't notice the fares southwest willl be charging against US air when they come to philly. Try, phoenix for 298 versus US air at $1356.
That's 300 percent lower. NOw is that Mesa's fault too.
Hey guys,
I have a couple questions about Mesa operating 73s:
Will Mesa operate these 300s under their own name or for a mainline carrier?
If they operate as a new LCC, won't they be biting the hands that feed them? They will just be jumping on the pile with the other carriers going after US Airways. I don't think United would be to happy with it either since they have ACA breaking off to compete with them out of IAD.
I also can't believe any MEC would give scope relief to let them operate for a another carrier.
Can anybody shed some light on this? Thanks !
I have a couple questions about Mesa operating 73s:
Will Mesa operate these 300s under their own name or for a mainline carrier?
If they operate as a new LCC, won't they be biting the hands that feed them? They will just be jumping on the pile with the other carriers going after US Airways. I don't think United would be to happy with it either since they have ACA breaking off to compete with them out of IAD.
I also can't believe any MEC would give scope relief to let them operate for a another carrier.
Can anybody shed some light on this? Thanks !
jetfueljunkey
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2004
- Posts
- 87
mesa's 737's
Well as a current mesa pilot, the rumors are rampant...The latest rumor is that we have purchased/leased 3 737-300's and are going to operate them out of PIT for United??? I think it is stupid as hell....I don't want to fly a 737 for MESA...I want to go to WN, UA, AA, DAL, anybody mainline to fly a boieng or a bus! I am tired of being the industry whore...the red-headed step child. I joined Mesa(air-midwest) 6 years ago with aspirations of going to a mainline job in 3-4 years......Well obviously that didn't happen so here I/we (mesa pilots) am/are. Most of us are in the same boat..wishing we were somewhere else...but we aren't...SO hopefully our MEC will grow a set and stop sending ouot SH*t for LOA's and payrates.... We better get industry AVG +5% or nothing......If this all does happen...like I said...all just a huge rumor as of now!
Well as a current mesa pilot, the rumors are rampant...The latest rumor is that we have purchased/leased 3 737-300's and are going to operate them out of PIT for United??? I think it is stupid as hell....I don't want to fly a 737 for MESA...I want to go to WN, UA, AA, DAL, anybody mainline to fly a boieng or a bus! I am tired of being the industry whore...the red-headed step child. I joined Mesa(air-midwest) 6 years ago with aspirations of going to a mainline job in 3-4 years......Well obviously that didn't happen so here I/we (mesa pilots) am/are. Most of us are in the same boat..wishing we were somewhere else...but we aren't...SO hopefully our MEC will grow a set and stop sending ouot SH*t for LOA's and payrates.... We better get industry AVG +5% or nothing......If this all does happen...like I said...all just a huge rumor as of now!
jetfueljunkey
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2004
- Posts
- 87
Agreed 110%
I agree with you 110% but unfortunately some of our other pilots don't. Our MEC is up for re-election and they will(better be) voted out and new leadership in. It just depends upon our LEC reps who seem to be in the back pocket of the MEC. If our MEC get's re-elected by our LEC's then there will be a major recall of all lec reps then at the mec level aas well. I am not trying to pass the buck at all... The MEC just sent out a POS LOA for the instructors it was shot down hard! The pilots here seem to be waking up and smelling the coffee!!! No more easy street for our MEC and Company.....
I agree with you 110% but unfortunately some of our other pilots don't. Our MEC is up for re-election and they will(better be) voted out and new leadership in. It just depends upon our LEC reps who seem to be in the back pocket of the MEC. If our MEC get's re-elected by our LEC's then there will be a major recall of all lec reps then at the mec level aas well. I am not trying to pass the buck at all... The MEC just sent out a POS LOA for the instructors it was shot down hard! The pilots here seem to be waking up and smelling the coffee!!! No more easy street for our MEC and Company.....
islandhopper
Clone War veteran
- Joined
- May 9, 2003
- Posts
- 718
The rumors I been reading on www.mesalounge.com detail the recent "cleansing" of the Freedom certificate, putting all the 700/900 CRJ's back on Mesa certificate was to get ready for Freedom #2 to start up with 737's. This would supposedly circumvent the scope of Mesa's codeshare "partners". And I am sure when the MES MEC stands firm on $150/hr for their Captains JO will threaten to spin it off to new owners. The whole thing is like a broken record with those imbiciles. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and expecting different results?
One thing I came to realize was just a few months ago JO was bashing ACA for their plan to go at it alone. Now it's suddenly a great idea?
I think the entire thing is a distraction and a waste of everybodys time worrying about it. JO is just trying to pump and dump stock prices. Its is his SOP. Remember the Cincinnati thing they were going to startup when Comair was on strike? ACA. I could think of a few others but I have a sudden case of nausea. I got to go hurl.
One thing I came to realize was just a few months ago JO was bashing ACA for their plan to go at it alone. Now it's suddenly a great idea?
I think the entire thing is a distraction and a waste of everybodys time worrying about it. JO is just trying to pump and dump stock prices. Its is his SOP. Remember the Cincinnati thing they were going to startup when Comair was on strike? ACA. I could think of a few others but I have a sudden case of nausea. I got to go hurl.
drivea75 said:
jetfueljunkey
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2004
- Posts
- 87
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